hooaa

My Feedback: (1)

I think that the Jett 50 FIRE might be dwarfed in the large cowls of boh the Lil Toni and Alley Cat.
Since the threads lately are discussing speed I wonder how fast my Lil Toni might be going. The YS 110FZ turns an APC 13/13N 10K on the ground. Any idea on the speed? It is not nearly as quick as my Jett 50 powered delta.

rmenke

My Feedback: (13)

Ok, having a shot of sending the pic. to you. I am truly sorry to burst your bubble on the Little Toni. I had great expectations for the Tony, looks great and all that stuff. Had a new Jett 90L in it, broken in with care and installed with love. I know it looks fast, and sounds fast and with the money poured into it, should have been fast. Flew it in one heat of one race and almost lapped by guys that normally can't staywith my birds. Put the Tony away, brought out the Yellow Jacket and cleaned their clocks bad. Was first in denial, then dissapointment, then hopping mad. The motor was doing its job turning well and pulling well, the speed is just not there. If you read a little more closely, the guys in the know will tell you the same thing. Its a great looking sport flyer that will outrun and out fly the above average plane at the field. My principal opponents (2) have years of racing experience, are truly great pilots and leave no room for error, seldom a bad needle set flight, or flight error. I have stayed in front by a slight margin, I my view only by having superior speed. Must be faster to beat them, not likely to outfly them, on rare occasion. I wish things were different. Also wish someone would make a aftermarket wing for the Tony, Minnow and Shoestring. They have potential, look great and fly great, just no speed as needed. I would have kept mine rather than selling it for $200.00 and found a 160 to 210 for it, paid for a good hop up and make it fast. The eigine size would be 2 to 3 times the size allowd by club rules, the guys would hold me down and cut--well, lets not go there. Hope the pic goes with this message.

buddude8

My Feedback: (10)

13/12*10,000*60/5280=123mph theoretical speed

buddude8

My Feedback: (10)

ok, that plane is probably faster than the little toni. I thought the point of this thread was between two scale planes. Sorry if i came off a litte rough on the last post, but my point is, for a scale plane it is fast. If i want super fast i fly my pylon planes witch are not scale.

ken

SPEED51J

Hey Bro, Remember you were running a different prop when you got radared. Don't forget to add rpm for when this baby gets rollin in the air and she unloads. Youre look'n at 140 plus.

John

rmenke

My Feedback: (13)

BUDDUDE 8: No offence taken and none intended! I really liked the Little Tony, anyone who would buy one plus the cost Jett 90. based on adds and find out its just not up to par is going to be dissapointed. If the Minnow would scoot, I wouild buy one in a hartbeat. I would stand up and shout for anyone who is able to radar one at 140 mph, even off a dive. Can imagine holding back on the start, diving in on the first turn and cutting some tail off my nemesis. Yea, I would expectilng to pay for the damage. I first started racing in about 1968 with kit shoestring and K & B 40 against some large dollar planes with great success. It would scoot with the rest and grove and turn better. You guys can have a great time with the Tonys against Minnows and Shoestrings, and I would love to be there with you on the same field with mine. I like the Minnow design best of all, but would fly the Alley Cat thinking I would beat you, everything else being equal, which it never is. Its a great time to kick your buddies ass, and then conspire against #2 for the next race. We have a sign behind our safety fence that is approporiate, "Bulls--- Blvd. Thing is we have a wonderful time, come near to fistfights and then soon after the last race help each other for the next race. Think we are all a little complex (Be nice). My needs can apparently only be met by kit bashing a former pattern plane and hope it will all come togeather. Would prefer a ARF, but where oh where? ENJOY GUYS

Darwin

Hi rmenke,

Your little Yellow Jacket plane has got me intrigued. Can you supply more info about it?

Darwin

smitty9969

My Feedback: (7)

Not to beat down someone else's opinion, but to be fair I will add some info..
I dont know which 90 rmenke had. Its already been posted with the muffler extension required for the Toni, the 90L lost some rpms. Thats the reason for the 90LX. When I first started racing mine, an OS 91 at my lunch. Now after 16 flights on the engine, its a beast, fires up on the flip and outstanding speed with an 11x8 prop. Recently raced an LR-1 with an OS 32. That plane is quick. My toni just simply out ran it. Raced that same OS 91 this weekend and it was a totally different race. Revenge is so sweet. I can't tell you in mph how fast the plane is, but its competitive on our course. My opinion is, this engine is too tight to expect best performance just by break-in and less than 10 flights. I think rmenke gave up too quick on the configuration, unless he was running a 90L.
If you plan on running the Toni with a Jett 90LX, let Dubb know and he will include the extensions needed to get performance. Give the engine some run time. I dont think you will be disappointed.

Adriano

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What do you think??? Alley cat + OS 91 VR-DF (ducted fan engine) or JETT Fan-Jett 95 + 9x9 in a 22k range

rmenke

My Feedback: (13)

SMITTY:

What you are saying may well be true, if so I am going to shoot myself. I am not down on the Jett 90L, I am just saying the Little Toni, regardless of the 90 power is simply not going to scoot. There is no compairison between the OS and Jett. If it was a Jett 34 on the LR-1, think you would have a major different outcome. Its the best moter I have ever had including Nelson, Rossi, MVVS etc. The Little Toni is a nice flying sport model of a scale racer. It simply is not fast. It may have imnproved with more time on the engine, but it would have had to be a bunch. From my experience with the LT and shoestring, I will put money on the Alley Cat being faster than all the GP scale racers. I would like to find someone who would cut me a true scale foam wing . A correct wing design would let these bueatiful models scoot. Right now I am building a Ultra Sport 60 with intent of installing the Jett, and retracts and lots of streemlinning and mods. Will bet it will leave the LT in the dust. You just never know until you try. May also buy the Alley Cat just to see what it will do, at least the bucks wont be going to GP. I truly like their new midget mustang. Have a RE speed webra 120 that may make on of the GP racers go well, but just dont thank even that would be enough. I am sending my Jett 90L back to Dub for upgradeing the timming to run with eh 90LX. I wish you well and good speed!

bob27s

My Feedback: (19)

If you can figure out a way to run a long pipe through the fuselage, it might be possible. Altough unless you have a Fan-Jett already, they are pretty hard to come by.

rmenke

My Feedback: (13)

DARWIN:

The Yellow Jacket was built to conform to our clubs racing rules (no race airframes such as Q-500 etc.) and to kick a friend and competetors butt. The YJ wing is a foam Q-500 cut down to 40", landing gear in wings. Started with 4" X 36" balsa sheet top of sheet is strieght down the fuse to elevator sitting on top. Datum line at 2", down the center of the balsa sheet. Wing LE to firewall 4-3/4", to front 8". From wing TE to elevator 14-1/2" Elevator Stab 16" tip to tip starting 4" at fuse to 2" each tip, swept back. Elevator 1-1/2" wide, rudder 4-1/2" high. Total weight wet 4.2 lbs. Engine is on the 2" datum line centered. Overall lingth 36-1/2". The 36" sheet plus 1/2" added to the front, tapered to 1-1/4" for a spinner nut, 2-1/2" wide. The moments are not exactly from a Q-500. Elevator response at least equal to the Q-500's, can turn inside of most everything. The tirtle deck is open frame starting from the wing TE, 1-1/4 High to 0 at the end of rudder. Full sheeting diagonal topand bottom of the fuse for strength. CG as flying is 2-3/4" from LE. Wind screen cut out of a $.99 plastic wine glass, embeded and set in with gorilla glue. The Snoopy figure has been with me since 1970 or so, never in a crash. Engine a BSE Sport Jett 35, yes 35, not 40. The package outruns stuff up to 51 bu a bunch. It a simple airframe that just works. Landings? If you can land a low wing, you can land this. Will really slow down before stalling. The combo. that the YJ was purpose built to defeat is really strange. It started out as a GP Supersportster, very well streemlined, one bay off each wing, retracts and a ST 40 until it wore out then a ST 50. This thing rulled against some very experienced racers for several years until the YJ showed up and it has had its several years of domination. At one point our class was open to sports powered Q-500, the YJ still came out in front the majority of the time, is just flat faster than the Krangke F3D with a webra speed 35 in it. As with all racing, the pack is starting to close in taking advantages where possible. A cut down Ava-Star trainer with K & B 48 screemer is unbelieveable in the hands of a experienced racer. As we get older and eyesite is not quit as good as need to fly the little guys, larger challangers are starting to show up with the advantage of size and visibility to the pilot, and flown by good experienced racers, one flying the Unlimiteds. The handwriting is in the wall, go to a larger airframe you can see well. When you can see the larger airframe that is on your butt better than your own, its time to re-evaluate things. Dusts and Shrikes are faster than everything else, but they have to survive 3 heats, without landing gear, they just don't make it. Many times even when much faster, the deltas are out turned so bad they still end up in the rear of the pack. A larger shrike with retracts would probably be good, but as is, would be to heavy with retracts to turn well. The Tharp delta is just too fat in the wing section to be fast. This winter, there is some sneaky stuff going on in the skunk works. If all else fails, I will expand the YJ to a 60 size. Hope this helps you in your direction, give me a note if I can help any further.

Darwin

rmenke,

Thanks so much for the details of your little racer! Now I know what I'm going to do with an old Dominator Q500 wing that I dinged and have been saving for eventual reincarnation.

I know this was off topic for this thread, but I just had to know a little more about your YJ.


Thanks again,

Darwin

smitty9969

My Feedback: (7)

I have a LR-1 with the Jett.35 and it also ran circles around the o.s. powered one. So you might have a point. The lil toni isn't qm40 speed I will admit, but its not a dog either. atleast mine isnt. I ordered the alley cat and I'm waiting for delivery on it. Got a 90LX waiting for it.. I'll let you know the difference. Been waiting for the alley cat for a month now..

r-c-guy

My Feedback: (37)

RMENKE,

Please stand up and shout. Lil Toni, os 91 vrdf, 15%fuel, 11-8 apc, full wave marine pipe for an os81 - 152 mph - radar.

rmenke

My Feedback: (13)

SMITTY:

Have you received the Alley Cat yet? If you don't mind, would like to follow your build and flight findings. I have started to build my Ultra Sport 60 and am cutting the thing down all over the place. Appears to be worth the effort, the kit approach permits motor location and cowelling in the engine ala the formulas. IF it is quick, there will be a lot of crys "FOWL", but should be accepted as within the rules intent. If the AC meets or exceeds its visual, should be a real motor scooter. Would be a great backup for me in the event of a mid air. It has cost me a few airplanes to get the psychological edge here. If you are in front, I am coming on the same line and levil, and will make the inside turn on you even if you are in the way. Most will move out and let me go rather than loose a airplane. Most guys will get nervious and blow a turn enough to sneek buy.
Anyway, let us know what and how.

rmenke

My Feedback: (13)

R-C GUY:

My hats off to you and a big ATTA-BOY TO YOU! I generally just snicker at anyone telling me their fast little thing is going over 150 mph. They usually get red faced when blown away by a 110 known top end airplane. I honestly believe you made the 151. Also makes me very curious about your engine combo. What kind of rpm can you get out of the vrdf with the 11-8. I am not a OS guy, so dont know what the VRDF is, a heli motor? The "marine" pipe is what? I am not above taking some one elses good stuff and try to improve on that. If you have people on your butt there, let me know via PM.

smitty9969

My Feedback: (7)

Rmenke,
Still haven't gotten it. I work in the middle east, so mail is sometimes kinda slow (and this being the holiday season). I usually get things in about 3 weeks and this is starting the 4th since cermark ding the card..
You sound like my kind of racer. I would rather mid-air than loose. Can always replace a plane, but can't replace all the ****talking you hear when you loose.
You know what they say.. rubbing is racing..

rmenke

My Feedback: (13)

SMITTY:

Have always enjoyed the pre race mind games. Almost all the guys do it knowingly or not. My nimisis is almost my age with about the same experience and a very tallented flyer. He flys the open unlimited class nationally, typical speeds are from 190 to over 200, so he is not a easy kill. His great weakness is jewish nature. He just will not get in there and battle, so when you are close he starts to miss a little and can be pushed out. Thats all you need to turn inside and get him. When trying to pass me, he will either go high or low and try to avoid my area. Run um out time. Its not blocking, more like chasing combat time. Yea, we seem to think alike. Second is first looser, just hate that.

smitty9969

My Feedback: (7)

Yeah, your preaching to the choir. The people I fly with think like me. No one is scared of mid-airs and as a result we get alot of them. As a matter of fact we buy WM T-34 just to try and hit each other. Love to hear the crowd noise in a close race.

rmenke

My Feedback: (13)

SMITTY:

We have a WM T-34 class in our club racing venue, as well as a regional grup. World Models sure must produce a bunch of the things. They are supprisingly good flyers and the quality is not bad for the money. It was a great battle it out class until the rules started to change for the benefit of the experienced faster guys. The motors were speck at OS 46, apc 10 X 6 prop and a 400 foot two pylon course. First the pylon distance was moved to 500 and then 600 feet. This placed a premimum on speed and no longer was the bull ring that I enjoyed and favored. In the short course, streight line speed was not alwlays the flyer who won, it was pilot skill. Then came the prop option, and then the any engine under a 53. At this point, and after 3 years of playing with the class, many of the orignial bunch has dropped out feeling that they can not win, and frankly can not. I honestly do not understand why a guy will just quit without giving it a real shot by practice, practice, practice and getting a good motor into the thing. They see my nemisis and I practicing frequently, and fine tuning things all the time in other classes, but just don't seem to get it!, We will be going into the fourth season this coming year, which should bring out some interesting stuff as rules go in our open class where anything goes except full out Q-500s and similar, no race engines. Am going to have to step it up a little as my purpose built Yellow Jacket, 35 powered is sure to be challanged. Last week, a guy with a disguised Q-500 with a turtle deck and coweled motor. "I built it from scratch, is not a Q-500". Yep, going to be a interesting year for the rules committee. This guy will never be a threat as he uses junk engines, with decent home design airframes, but seldom practices, and very seldom gets more than one good flight in due to engilne problems. He stuffed the Q-500 before the end of the day from a flame out. Anyway, have a good one!. ENJOY

rare_bear

My Feedback: (1)

Chiming in here.....

Just got an Alley Cat a few weeks back and I am waiting for an engine to come in before I get started on it.

I will be powering mine with a ys110.


(since these engines are all on backorder it seems, i will be pulling a 110 out of my60 sized mustang just as soon as its replacement, a ys140, arrives at my front door)

Another fella at our flying field did this combination (ys110 + AlleyCat) and he thought it was doing around 140mph.

I will be posting more as I get started on it, probably right after Xmas.

hooaa

My Feedback: (1)

Rare Bear,
I'll be watching the forum for the results of your Alley Cat - YS110FZ combo. My Ys110 is currently in the GP Lil Toni and has plenty of power, and fun to fly, but speed must only be in the 110 range. I'm using an APC 13/13N on it, and 30%nitro/23% oil. I hope that your new combo can begin to approach Quickie 500 speed that I am used to.

r-c-guy

My Feedback: (37)

Hi,

My OS vrdf 91 is turning 22k on the ground with 25% fuel. The 11-8 has been cut down to about 10.75. The tips were not very good. The marine pipe is a Rossi 15 cc marine pipe - No muffling but a little more scavenging than the ones used in df operations. Fuel consumption is off the scale.

randy

Strykaas

Randy

Now that's what I call expensive flights !!

How much did you improve top end speed by moving from 15% to 25% and reducing prop size ?