THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

I just began working on my new CERMARK F-16. I figured we needed a good build thread for it.... there seems to be lots of interest in this plane! There is not to much to building it but, like any ARF, there always seem to be better ways of doing things or things to watch out for. I have already noted several really good and some not so great things that we can all compare notes and ideas on so we can get our planes to fly better!

It is nice to see that there seems to be a whole slew of next generation prop-jet type airplanes becoming available in both "KIT" and "ARF" formats that are of an excellent quality. The best part is they perform well and do not cost $10,000 per copy as a turbine model can cost!

I am looking foward to this ARF... I just finished my AKM SU-27 "FLANKER" prop-jet ( http://akmodels.bizland.com/ for those interested ) ... which is probably the nicest prop-jet kit around but, it is a kit... This F-16 should make for some good instant gratification! The quality looks fantastic!

All are welcome to get in on this thread especially all the prop-jet people out there!


To start things out I have posted a few pics of the layout of parts and a Flanker pic or two from the AKM SU-27 build thread.

Thats all for now!

Rich

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

Rich, good choice! I plan on ordering one next week....:D

will follow your build with interest!

what engine you will put on the nose? mine will have a MVVS .91 with a short pipe (have to see the fit when I get the plane)

BTW, make sure you reed some comments on the supplied retracts! I won't be using those for sure, putting in a set of pneumatic B&D, others have used Spring Airs.

Anyway, lets build this jet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

I have had no problems so far. I am installing the gear (air) tonight. All of this with no instructions. I have heard several people getting one with the gear included. I received no gear with mine as it says on their website, the gear sold seperately. I posted some pics in my gallery.

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

Looks great, Rich.

Wish I still had money.

Don

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

You do DON but it is all in box's in a garage in Redding right? :D

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

Nahh, it's all on my new wife's finger and in her closet...LOL!!! :D

(okay, yeah, it's in the garage too.) :)

Don

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

This should be a fun thread..... just signing up :)

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

Bob27 a Q for you? Will one of your mufflers fit the Evo 1.00NX? The muffler bolt spacing is 42 and the bolts pass through the muffler and screw into the motor head case.

the weight is 5.3 oz and I would like to get a lighter one...along with any other benefits :D

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

Blade,

Sure...... the JS-90 muffler will work great. The 42 mm bolt-on is possible with the use of an adapter piece. Just specify the Evo100 and the JS-90 muffler when ordering. The ASP/Magnum .75 and 1.20 have the same bolt-on 42mm configuration.

Jett Stream JS-90 muffler weighs about 180 grams......... that's around 6oz. Not sure there is help in the weight department.

Bob

(note ..... the 90LX muffler weights about 1/2oz less, and is smaller, but you would have to prop the engine to run up at least 14K rpm on the ground)

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

Thanks for the info Bob ...will think about trying one on the EVO

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

Rich

Nice photos of ur new F 16 from Cermark.

I had that green retract gear on my F20 it wiggled a bit more then I cared for. However I noticed they sell something called
Custom Aluminum Retracts anyone seen these?

What motor u going to put in her?

Will the Jet 90 fit and do u think the Airframe could handle 130mph?

She does look like a good speed-plane candidate.

Ian

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

Can you please let me know where to get this plane , every time I try to find a website i get all the RCU or other RC webs but nothing on cermark , thanks . [&o]

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

http://www.cermark.com/Merchant2/mer...egory_Code=AAA

Don

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

thanks Don

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

what is the auw of this ?

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

Any reports on the retracts from Cermark ??? ARe they a brand , spring air ,Robart ect ?
Thanks , this plane looks very very nice . Quality seems high from the pics .
Rich , that SU27 alos looks fantastic , I was amazed that the kit only listed out around $125 , really cheap considering the looks of the lasor cutting and quality . I may just build one and Buy this F 16 , wifey and the kids are getting tired of seeing me fly all the ww2 planes ;)

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

I fly the old Cermark F-16 a lot. The gear is the same basic set EXCEPT.... it is completely re-designed..... all the parts that were plastic are now machined aluminum and the wires were upgraded to a 5mm or 3/16" wire! It appears to be a very soild gear set! Many people with the old style mechanical gear will want this set... I think Cermark may have an opportunity to sell this gear set independent of the F-16 kit for those tho are tired of working with the same old "Junky" mechanical systems of the past.

The new gear also comes with a nice set of aluminum hub wheels.

I will be working on a single-servo gear setup to see if I can make it work! I guess Cermark had problems with getting it to function properly.. they decided to use 3 servos instead which will work great... but adds alot of weight!

For anyone who wants that SU-27... just tell alex at AKM I sent you and he will give you a FREE set of the laser cut stickers that go with the kit if you order the SU-27!

For the F-16 here is the link: http://www.cermark.com/

I will be using A Jett 90L ... would not think of using anything else!

There is some drag from the front scoop but otherwise the plane is very clean... I could be potentially very fast.... the best part about it is the "flying Tail" or "Stabilator". Back in the 1940's when the sound barrier was broken the "Flying Tail" was the single design element which made supersonic flight possible... most turbine planes have them due to the speed. It should be way less prone to flutter. Most planes flutter in the tail... and this plane has a nice tail setup!

Also the rudder linkage is very direct and short.... thus also way less prone to flutter... I think this plane may really cook!

Will post some pictures of construction soon! fere are a few pics!

Rich

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

LDM...

From what I have seen of the F-16 (one local built one, plus the one at the Toledo show) its a real nice plane. The mechanical gear (upgraded) are VERY nice looking. More like the MK pattern gear from a few years back than 'cheap' hobbico gear - VERY well constructed and appear to include 'real' steel struts. The 3-servo thing is probably the only concern - it is for the most part impossible to get them all to work from a common servo, or even just two servos. Spring-Airs or the new robart 'cloes' would be good alternates. All up weight of the bird ..... expect over 9 lbs. Its a big plane. But it has a lot of wing area - weight is not a big issue.

The AKM kits are outstanding. Well designed, cutting is real nice. Alex produces some good products. Some good thread info here in RCU to follow for the SU-27 and also for the Mig.

Bob

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

I may have to get one of these too. Rich - on the SU-27 - have you thought about using 2 rudder servos to get rid of the transverse connector rod and make the hook up more solid? G.

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

The rod is not the problem. I used a 4-40 commecting rod. All the play is in the flexing of the touque rod. A 2 thicker torque rods in the rudders or a more direct linkage system would solve the problem!

Rich

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

I have the main gear installed. The springairs are a nice fit. I am installing the Robart air kit (tank/valve) tonight. I am now racking my brain to figure out how to bend the wire legs. I will post more pics as well.

BTW: Anyone know where to buy some 3/16 wire struts only? Tower only has 5/32???

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

Never mind, I found it. Tower has it in 36" music wire catagory.

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

I built the new F-16 with the custom retracts. At first you think sure I can make this work with one servo. The Problem is that the gear retract forward against the air stream. I put three standard servos in( I thought if one retract servo at 94 oz will do it then two 46 oz servos should be fine). On the ground the gear went up and down with authority. Once in the air the plane picks up speed fast. I hit the retracts and only the nose wheel went up. You need to use two retract servos and a standard servo to make them work. The retracts themselves are pretty good. You do need to work them a little to make the work smoth. take a small file and get rid of any small burs. next I greased the friction points of the retracts. Lastly make sure all of the screws are tight and use lock-tite to make sure they stay that way. If you don't mind the three servos the custom retracts work well. On take off and landing the plane tracks well. I am useing the jet 90L and the upgrade retracts from Cermark and my plane is just at 10lbs. The plane floats in on landing. I set up mine to use flaperons but have not tried them yet. The only bummer is that my club informed me that they have a 100 db sound limit so I can't fly my plane with the standard tuned pipe from Jett :( I will have to use a MACs quiet pipe. I don't know how much HP i will lose? I do know it will make my wallet about $160 lighter. I think I will try over proping on the ground and hope it unloads in the air. I know this will not quite make the 100 db limit but should be closer and I will just have to fly on off days not to draw attention to myself. Any way good flying

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

To bad you cant use the JETT. It makes all the difference!

Rich

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

I do not understand the Cermark 3 servo retracts philosophy... with the cost +3 servos, one can buy air retracts with all the bells & whistles! I am sure it's lighter& easier to install...

Why do the hustle?:eek: it seems like a no-brainer to me![X(]

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

also.... three retract servos are expensive and lighter that using standard servos. I am currently working on the single servo systen now. Definately some QC issues with the F-16. The gear mounting plates are not properly jigged. This is the second kit I have had... The first I had to return and swap for this one because the Stabilizer bushings were improperly alligned. May need to swap this one for another.

Rich

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

I have not seen this kit in person , but could you get the air cylinders, (3) about $40 bucks , air support about $35 , all you would then have to do is add the Heavy duty extension arms . This should be lighter and less expensive then three servos .

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

You are looking at about 160-200 dollars for the retracts (air) if you go with Robart or Springair. If I could find them cheaper somewhere else, please dont tell me. I have already spent the money! My luck

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

Like I siad I did not know if this plane came with mechanical gear that use with servos if that is the case you do have the options of just cylinders ,
but If i spent $300 on a plane I would also spend $150 to $200 on gear , its the old saying , dont dig a $25 hole for a $200 tree or your just asking for trouble .
One last thing , if you have not tried CJ gear , you can email bruce the specs and he will make them for this plane , he does this in the WW2 planes all the time . With CJ the oleo are very heavy duty and come totally assembled , no drilling no tiny crappy set screws ect .

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

I'm going with the B&D pneumatic retracts (about $83 all inclusive);)

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LX7110&P=ML

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

be sure you have 3/16" wires for the struts.... a 5/32" wire will not support the weight!

Rich

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

thnx Rich, i will try to get the pre-bent struts from Cermark

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

MSWEETEN,

Did the club check the airplane/engine noise level? What level was measured ? What distance/height from ground/surface? (ie, 3 meters , 1 meter up, on grass ?) Let me know what you have, and I can help.

The Jett 90L with the stock muffler, turning an APC 12x8 prop should check under 100 db on the ground at take-off rpm. A 12x6 will run just at 100db on average. What prop are you using now? If it is the standard 90L, prop the engine to get the rpm down closer to 13,000 rpm, and it will be notibly quieter.... and it will still unload well in the air. The only real advantage of going with a full-pipe is you can set it longer, prop heavier, and run down in the 12K rpm range if desired. Of, if that is the case, simply get the jett 90T (long) muffler and prop to run in the 11 to 12K rpm range with a 12x10 or similar.

Bob

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

I just flown my F-16 today. I used spring air retracts and struts. The plane came out to 9lbs. It has a TSI motor 91 AR. Or should I say it had a TSI. Not very happy with this motor. I will replace it with a jet 90. Cant wait till I have a good motor in it. The third lap around dead stick. I have it balanced at 7.5 in. back from the leading edge. The plane glided in real sweet.

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

On my Jett 90L my club test the sound level with the plane on the cement runway 9 feet out up about waist level. The sound level came in at 105db. I was running a APC 12-6 turnning about 14,000 on the ground. They make use run it at full throttle for the sound check. Once in the air it does not sound very loud at all. For cruising I only use about 1/3 throttle and the 90L only makes as much sound as an OS 46. I just don't run it up on the ground for more than a second or two to clear it out. I ordered the long quite pipe from MAC, which I am sure would work just fine and make the 90L a ***** cat. But I didn't buy the Jett 90 to make it a *****. I am going to cancel my order and just try and keep my plane under the radar from the noise police. I flew my f16 last Sunday. I think I need to refine the throw/exponential and CG. I dialed back the elevator throw based on the new recommended throws. On take off the roll out was long and when she lifted off was some what jerky. On landing I felt that I ran out of elevator and could not flare smothly. I tried one landing that I aborted with a big bounce off the runway only to have almost the same thing happen on the second attempt. I came in fairly hot on both attempts. The second attempt killed the engine so I had to make a crash landing. I had some damage to the landing gear wood supports. The gear itself was not bent or damaged in any way. I am now rebuilding the gear supports from birch ply. should be done in a day.

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

The plane will allow the engine to unload in the air quite a bit. You can use the 12x8. Will pull the ground rpm down and likely get you in that 100db ballpark. No loss of performance.

As long as you have a dozen or so runs on the engine with the 12x6, put a 12x8 on it. Set the needle 400 down from peak. The engine will unload and get up on the muffler after the first turn.

Bob

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

Just wondering what servo you gonna use on the elevators? They operate sooo smooth and are basically counter-balanced when installed, really impressive. I know there will be a little more load on them in flight with the whole stab moving so I wanted to put a HD servo. I tried 2 seperate digital servos and both glitch slightly when operating. Maybe all the metal, not sure. So, I put a carbonite geared heavy duty Hitec servo there. The issue is the torque. How much is enough here? This particular servo has the normal 42oz of torque. Is anyone using a standard servo on the elevator? Thanks for the info.

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

I used a single Hitec HS-5645mg digital ultra torque. The servo is rated at 143.03 oz at 4.8v. I have not had any problems with this servo on my F-16. The only down side is that the metal gears seem to have some play. The full stab eliminates the flutter problem so it works well. :D

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

LEAR, can you post the link for the 3/16 struts (only) at Tower? can't get just the strust fron Cermark...

BTW my NIB F-16 is on it's way to papa!:D:D

Cheers, Vasek

RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
 

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXR938&P=7

There you go. I finished mine tonight and will try it out tomorrow. I added two extra battery packs (for weight only) in the tail and could only get the CG up to about 8". The manual says CG should be 8.5-9". I will try and see. I hate adding weight! It came out really nose heavy having built it by the book . One exception is that I did not put the throttle servo in the tail, but that is not very much weight anyway using an HS85 mini servo. I will post a pic in my gallery of the arrangement of servos, etc. Good Luck.

EDIT: I posted some more pics in my gallery of the servo layout I chose. Pics are worth a thousabd words on this airplane! You have to be pretty creative to avoid 9 extentions!