Ive been looking to do a Little bigger conversion but not a monster just bigger than a .40 size. So when I saw the Showtime 4d ,I thought it would make a nice plane to do. I have a Twist with an Axi 4120/18 running 6s2p and its awesome.




Which Axi do you all think would be a good choice for this one? I would like to stay in the 6s range if possible. Not sure if thats enough though . Maybe even the same setup . Im pulling 40 amps at wot with a 14x7 apce prop with tp 4200's. Maybe just go up to a 16 inch prop and the kokam 3200 packs.

I'm sure Jason M is around somewhere......
Setup at SEFF was great.
David

It's all about power to weight... The Showtime is a much larger, heavier plane than the Twist, so you're going to all that much more power.

I really don't think 6S is going to do it, especially if you want 3D out of an AXI motor. I'm thinking more along the lines of a 9S pack with a 4130/20 and THEN a 16", maybe 17" prop. Normally, you'd run a 6S pack in a .60-size airplane, but between the desire for 3D performance and the choice of an AXi motor, you have to upsize, like putting a .60 size engine in a .40 size plane.

Personally, I think the AXis are great, but they just don't make great 3D motors in the larger sizes. It can be done, but it takes a bit of an unconventional approach along with some compromises, such as a little extra weight.

The ST at SEFF flew with a Hacker C50 12XL, 8S2P Thunderpower Pro-lites and a 20x13 APC E prop.

This plane will come in around 10 pounds, so the 4130 will not do it. Well.....it will, but will turn this plane into a sport flyer. To fly 3D and pattern it needs around 1500 watts. That is in the territory of a 5330 on 10S. A 5320 would do it on 8S, with around 120 watts per pound. Just not the best solution in my opinion.

A Cylcon 160 outrunner on 8S swinging a 21" prop will yeild around 1500 watts at around 50 amps. This would be a good option. I run a dual Cyclon 160 setup in an 87" Yak that weighs ~15 pounds and it yeilds almost 3800 watts. www.atlantahobby.com is the importer of these motors.

I have a C50 12Xl and an 8S that I want to throw in the showtime. I hope that it remains on track for release in the next couple of months.

-Mike

ok So if I plan for a 9s solution what would be the decent choices for an outrunner. To give it enough power to pull out from a hover I guess. Sounds like you guys dont like the big axi's too much

I have nothing against Axi's at all. A 5320 or 5330 would pull this thing around like a rag doll. However, you will have to run a 10S or swing a larger prop (22" ) on 9S to keep the amps up. Just be careful about weight. I would go with a 2P of the new pro-lites that can handle peak amps in the 50's and allow you to keep the weight down.
-Mike

Cool, the reason I say I want to stay with 9s is that if I get 3s packs then i can use them in others things and have lots of combinations also my charger only does 9s and I just bought it so I dont want to replace it again . Yes and I was thinking ofr getting the tp 4000 prolites and running 3 of the 3s in series. I have the 4200 packs that are a little older and they have been good to me.

Don't get me wrong. The big AXis are great, they're just not the best solution in a 3D ship.

I'm kind of intrigued why Mike would say a 4130/24 wouldn't do the job... 9S LiPoly with the 4130 propped for 40 Amps is 1200+ Watts, and you're not even pushing the motor beyond its specs. Prop for 50 Amps, and you've got 1500+ Watts. Just look at how hard Covey is beating on his 5330 in that 1/3 scale Edge 540: over 3000 Watts peak power!

I'm thinking the lighter motor coupled with a relatively light battery pack like a 9S1P of Kokam 3200s (as compared to a 9S4P Thunderpower pack, conventional wisdom), you might be able to come in somewhat below 10lbs.

Admittedly, this is all on paper, and you'd be sticking your neck out a little, taking a risk that the real world performance numbers won't jive with the theoreticals... The proven setup with a hacker would be a much safer alternative.

Matt,
It will fly it, but more at sport levels than pattern/3d. Propped for anything over 40 amps and effeciency becomes a loss (84% at 40 amps). This motor can handle 60 amp bursts, but when I overamp outside of the max effeciency rating, it always costs me a hot motor.

As the cell count goes up, the prop must come down. The positive is that this is not a draggy airframe and one could probably get away with a 16 or 17" prop (which is what I feel is where it might be).

I agree that using a 9S 3200 over a 9s2p 4000 would work to keep the weight down. And the loss of 800mah isnt that drastic. However..for every Yeng there is a Yang..obtaining CG might be a Yang in the rear

I have a friend running this motor in an 7 pound Sig Kadet and it does well. My personal preference is that I wouldnt run it in anything over an 8 pound plane depending on the performance that I wanted (scale plane, I might go to 9 pounds). For anything over 8 pounds, I look at the next size motor (5320). Especially when someone wants to hover a 10-11 pound aircraft. I just dont feel that it would provide the performance he is looking for.

-Mike

so maybe an AXI 5320/28 would be the ticket, I have an Jeti opto 77 already i can use . so now I just have to get the plane

If I was going to run an AXI, a 5320 or 5330 is what I would run.

My Showtime flown at SEFF with the Hacker C50-12XL motor, 8S2P 4000mAh Thunder Power Pro Lite pack and 20x13 prop pulled around 50-52 amps, delivering about 1500 watts of power. Performance of this system in the 10.15 lb model was excellent - very good pull out from hover with steady and unlimited vertical power. It was not a rocketship like some foamies, but had better power than the glow version and more than enough for any manuever out there.

Id say at a minimum this model would fly well with 1300 watts of power. It will be able to hover with OK vertical performance at this level of power, but it might be lacking if you get into trouble down low. There are certainly a lot of motor/battery combos out there than can deliver 1300-1500watts and that should be your minimum goal. Still, I agree with Mike that the Axi 5320 or 5330 motor would be a much better choice than the lighter 4120 - for one thing youll never get the ST to balance with a lighter motor and battery than I used , but you also want have the headroom to increase power if you feel its neccessary.

While I find the power of my system to be very good right now, Im planning to try some 10S2P packs soon to push the power closer to 1700 or even 1800 watts. With this much power, vertical performance will be nothing short of spectacular

Im in the process of writing a conversion article now to be published on the Horizon Hobby web site in June/July with more tips on how to get the conversion done with as little effort as possible - keep an eye out there for more:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=HAN2800

By the way - this airplane flies FANTASTIC! Knife edge is almost too easy and it really flies like a big 3D foamie on high rates and like a precision pattern model on low. Glow or electric (of course, electric is prefferred ) no one will be disappointed with this models performance.

Good luck!

Jason Merkle
E-flite Product Manager
Horizon Hobby
http://www.horizonhobby.com

Thanks for the info Jason , are you running a gearbox on your hacker?

Yes the factory installed "Acro" 6.7:1 gearbox.

Hello Jason -

What has happened to your review on the Showtime 90 electric conversion? I want to do just this, but would love to see what you did, and what you used first. Please let em know.

Cheers,
Ren