HI all, I guess many of use who have sold stuff on RCU have wondered, well what if it gets lost in the mail, is it the responsibility of the seller to guarantee the merchandise gets to its new owner.
Rcpete

Yikes. Unfortunately, in this case it is always the sellers responsibility. Just hate to see this happen to anyone in the hobby. Hopefully it was insured and traceable.

Here's a thought...

Say you sell a jet for $2,000USD plus $200 for shipping and insurance.

You ship it and insure it for $3,000USD. It gets lost.

Who gets the $3,000USD? The buyer paid for the shipping and insurance right?

The buyer gets the 3 grand?

When does the buyer "own it?"

Dave

If you just recently mailed anything via USPS and especially during the holiday stretch I wouldnt worry too much quite yet.Xmas 2005 seemed to be much busier for the USPS ,apparently they were overwhelmed moreso than normally for the holiday season.

The reason I say this is that I mailed out a letter dec. 28th Priority Express(norrmally suppose to be 2,3 days tops on the east coast & it took a full week to arrive to FL from VA.I also mailed out a package to CA 2 weeks ago regular mail & it still hasnt arrived..From what I understand they are just really behind in some parts of the US...I sent another Priority Express out last sat & that one arrived in FL tuesday so its a hit & miss thang with the holiday crunch


Try to be patient awhile longer,I was definately nervous as I had a 4400.00 personal check floating in postal space then I very happy to hear it landed safely in FL yesterday

Steve

Its called insurance, be foolish to send ANYTHING without insuring it. "lost in the mail" is BS, **** doesn't get lost in the mail, maybe .000001% of the time does something get lost in the mail. Its people jacking other people... I got burned on an ebay deal for $570 on a digi cam, turns out he did it to several other people. He "forgot" to insure it, turns out he sold same cam to three people.... and by the way, Ebay protects the seller, they could care less about the buyer... You'd think I'd learn, bought a car on Ebay, got jacked... Wife is an attorney, she did some homework, thinking about doing class action suit against this dealer in Texas.. AUTO SHOWCASE.,<-----Burn in hell!!!... and we found several unhappy buyers from the same place, ebay didn't do anything, they're still selling junk cars to people....

Ok, I'm done venting...

Mike

Dave, conceivably, only the shipper knows how much it was insured for, so it's his three grand in your suggested situation. Seller does owe the 2200 back though.

Guessing that the 200 was eaten up anyway during the packaging phase etc.

The buyer "owns" it, when it is in his hands and he no longer owes any more money for it.

I sold a kangaroo have a 1000 deposit on it. It's still in my hands, and until it is delivered, I'm making sure nothing happens to it. Cause if something does, I own the problem.

If you sent it to Canada then it might still be at customs. I'll never send anything to Canada unless if it is sent UPS. USPS service to Canada sucks to high heavens.

Sean,
I understand what you're saying. What does FOB mean then? As I understand it...It's the buyers property as soon as it is rec'd at the shippers? This is interesting stuff!

Dave

hmm, it really depends how the deal was structured. If the seller offers Free shipping like I do most of the times than its my responsibilty. Now if the buyer pays for shipping and for whatever reason, other than being cheap doesn't want to pay the Insurance premium its his problem. Never ship anything without Insurance even if it jeopardizes your sale. I've sold and shipped jets all over the country and world and if the buyer refuses to pay the Insurance ( unless I offer to pay it ) Deal is OFF period.


Just my $0.02

Johnny Hernandez

Dave, FOB stands for Freight On Board.

Typically what this means is responsible to the FOB point, no where after, buyer responsible for dealing with insurance issues.

Don't even mess around with the term in our world unless you've got bucks enough to lose the deal and go to court over it.

In our cases, that is rarely rarely worth it, or even feasable.

I have sold a few and shipped a few. Here is the deal, and yes I am the one that UPS or Fed Ex always punts across the warehouse. When I ship if I have sold something, I give the seller the price of the plane, shipping, and insurance. He pays me this and I ship the plane, he gets the tracking number. It gets sat on by an elephant on the plane and is destroyed when it arrives. UPS gets the merchandise, and I (the shipper) get the cost of the insurance plus the shipping back. I then return money to the buyer. It becomes the buyers property when it is in thier hands, and not before. That is the UPS/ Fed Ex idea of how it works. If the buyer is slow in handing property over to UPS/Fed Ex then it only takes longer for the process to begin.

So technically the buyer gets to hang out on the limb for a while while this all goes through. My last claim with UPS took 49 days from the initial claim to the day I got the check. You can fight and ***** all you want, they go at thier own rate, no matter what. Routinely you can figure an easy 30 dyas for payment from the beginning of the claim. I will not return money on damaged goods untill I get paid. I have had one buyer demand his money back as soon as the plane arrived damaged. I told him the process and he didn't care, thought he shouldn't have to loose out on his money during the process. Of course I felt the same way, as I was out the property.

Buying goods on the internet can be a gamble, more in the shipping department than anything else. I have never been taken for a ride per say. Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying it hasn't happened to me. I would still buy of the interent, great place to find awesome values. Just understand patience is a virtue. Whatever your flavor, always insure and get the tracking number. Just helps when things get misdirected.

Acording to UCC ( uniform comercial code) trade regulations, as well as those by the FTC ( in case of interstate/international deals as most are ) , seller is ALWAYS responsible for an assured delivery as per original advertisement unless agreed ( you would need to prove this ) otherwise, or if item is being sold "as is " I once bought a BVM bandit RTF for $8000, and had it sent FedEx in a BVM jet case as per the recomendation of BVM and the seller who advertised the plane on the BVM web site. Insurance was applied to the entite $8K value. The plane came damaged ( in shipping ) , and a claim was filed, and several times DENIED by FedEx on grounds of "inadequate/anappropriate" packaging ... unfortunately the seller who was LEGALLY responsible never owned up to his end of responsibility and I was SCREWED as the buyer .. If i had taken this to court, i would have easily walked back out with my original $8K plus incurred legal fees ... obviously i had not taken that path, and still wonder sometimes if i should have ....

just always BE CAREFULL !!!!!


by the way, if you buy a plane that is advertised as "mint" and it somes with pavement scrapes all over it as if it was cart wheeled, likely the shipper will not honor any insurance claims , they are not dumb and can figure out of they are being screwed .... ( sorry for the poor buyer who got shafted with that deal if any of you know what im talking about ...[] )


Wojtek

From a vendor point of view....
Nothing ships without delivery confirmation. Any order over 50.00 is insured as well. Something to be aware of if you accept payment via Credit card, this includes Paypal... Without proof of delivery, any dispute made by a buyer, regardless of the claim, will be be awarded to the cardholder, period!
Always wise to have the package insured for the full value and traceable.

Sean,

I believe that FOB stands for FREE ON BOARD. The devil is in the details. The acronym "FOB" has to be accompanied by a shipping point. From THAT point on, it is the buyers responsibility. Use the terminology carefully when negotiating the deal.

Specifically, the definition reads as follows:

"A trade term requiring the seller to deliver goods on board a vessel designated by the buyer. The seller fulfills his obligations to deliver when the goods have passed over the ship's rail.

When used in trade terms, the word "free" means the seller has an obligation to deliver goods to a named place for transfer to a carrier."

Now days, you should insure AND take pictures or video before it goes out the door or gets opened at the destination.....


Tailwinds,

John

http://store.viz.com/help_shipping_fob/s.mmmrmhnz

OK! I'll see your:http://store.viz.com/help_shipping_fob/s.mmmrmhnz

And raise you: [link]http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fob.asp[/link]

I seem to remember Mr Charleston from my high school bookkeepping class explain it as "Freight On Board" as well!

John

Nice bet, I'm upping the ante with this:

http://www.blueroses.com/2001_04/hrightwrong.html

Have a great weekend

'Ya got me Amigo! Thanks for the link/lesson............I guess that I shouldn't have gotten married the first...or the second time!

You should try to make it out to PHX next month for the new Jet Rally...I owe you a brew.

Out-Googled,

John