JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

Heck my kits never stay the same. I've bashed the heck out of one of them - does that make me a scratch kit builder?
Just ragging on ya. Like I said it's just word useage. If it's my own plans I'll say it's scratch built otherwise I've built a kit, bashed a kit or plans built an aircraft. It doesn't really make a hill of beans as long as your are enjoying yourself.
John

saucerguy

Agreed, I just see too many people that absolutely insist, they only build with x materials a certain way and any deviation from that is herasy. I tend to mix up materials and building techniques where ever necessary, or what I currently have on hand. I put together a crude set of plans for a jet recently, am working on that in it's rc form soon, it's already passed the cheap foam plate chuck glider prototype mode, so guessing it would fit as a scratch build, then again I scaled up a Guillow's free flight kit plane plans 200% and converted to e-flight, again, more fun there, so not sure how to even classify that one outside of kit bash or something. I tend to bounce back and forth in between that and bash land as well, even stick built bashes are alot of fun, but foam is faster and I lean towards that with completely new designs, but not all the time.

I also get these guys that insist one type of contruction is stronger then another, when it comes down to it, building lighter means less inertia, but building heavier allows for severe abuse as well and with most planes, you can combine the two to get the best of both worlds.

Having fun with it is what it's all about as you said and us rcers keeping our minds open, there is a giant universe of options most RCers would find greatly rewarding, they just gotta get over the initial outside perspective and dive right in, these "kits or scratch" take more time to do then arf's, but as your skill level grows, even that factor doesn't seem like much of an issue.

BillS

Lots of people consider activities in which they are not proficient to be a pain in the ass and a waste of time.

I enjoy patching and despise building. No one is expected to understand.

Bill

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

Bill,
I totally understand. I used to do all my own maintenance of my cars and motorcycles. Even rebuilt the motors and replaced clutches, universal joints, brakes, master cylinders, rebuilt carburetors and re-wired anything electrical including build my own wiring harnesses. I still have most of the tools. Someone else does it today. I'd rather spend my time doing something I enjoy. If you don't enjoy building then isn't it great you have a choice with all the quality ARFs now available.

What has blown me away about this entire thread is that no one is bashing anyone else’s viewpoint. I really thought this would turn into the typical ARF verse build pi****g contest, but it hasn't. Indeed it shows that 50% build both.
John

drdoom

My Feedback: (9)

I enjoy building , Have for 40 years, As all things do, Building to a new level takes more time and expence. than you don't want to fly it because you spent 2 years in the basement building and Sanding. Now you can buy an ARF. as TF new Cessna 310 and Fly it in under 40 hours. and If something happens to it, You can Bolt on new parts.
But again I have a Hercules on the building board!!! Poping Nacelles out of the mold, one at a time.

bob1393

My Feedback: (10)

I didn't read all the responses, but I don't think anybody mentioned my reasons for liking ARF's. I've been building kits for 30 years, and I feel I do a good job at building, but I DON'T do a good job FINISHING. Thus I just started doing ARFS about a year ago, and I like the way they are finished. Many are fiberglass fuselages which look great. Unless you are an expert painter, or great at putting on heat shrink film, the ARFS just look better. Of course with a kit, you can always hire somebody to paint or finish it for you.

My 2c.

Bob

orenda635

Lets hear it for planes that are RTF!.
I don't consider myself very good with my hands, at least where carpentry is concerned. Covering is a whole other disaster story. I'm not even that good at putting ARFs together to tell the truth. I always seem to run into problems. I have a cramped workshop (which unfortunately doubles as a storage room) so builds frequently suffer hangar rash before they even leave the basement. I just hate building.
I also lack time. The busiest part of the year for me is in winter so I don't really have a building season, since I have so much else to do. Kits are very time consuming.

saucerguy

Bob, looks like you are at my neck of the woods, I'm in Tacoma, used to live at Port Orchard, perhaps some day we could go flying together, also, if you want to drop by my shop on your next kit build, I'll be happy to cover it with Ultracoat pro bono. After years of covering with paper, I discovered Ultracoat and it's turned from a nightmare, toxic fume mess to pretty much a breeze, it's a little heavier, but I like the lower heat it takes to get it to shrink and stretch. After hearing about this guy that has a video on covering with it, one of his examples being able to cover a tennis ball with the stuff, I was even more inspired, this stuff can bend around so many curves, it's incredible.

I still have a few arf's in my hanger, 2 need some serious repair, one is flyable, but I'm going to tear off the covering and redo that end this summer, photo of it is attached. I was so impressed with the carbon fiber tubing on the leading edge, I incorporate that into all of my stick builds these days, and in fact, have learned a thing or two from the construction elements with some of these ARF's that now go into the kit/scratch scene.

JNorton, also again, in agreement with you, it's nice to have a bunch of adults discuss a topic without it turning into a debate or flame war, this shows our maturity level and we are all being very constructive about it all.

jim schroer

I started out building and I did much, much more repairing than flying. But ARFs have allowed me to fly off the pond, at the slope or the field even with two or three wrecks in the shop. I'm a much better flyer now. My building projects right now(two tables) , one 113" sailplane and a Lou Andrews' Aeromaster. I just bought two complete biplanes at an auction. ... and one kit. Maybe neither group wants me.Basically, I don't see a problem here. oops, I almost forgot.. a friend(builder only) last week gave me a beautiful set of plans for the Grumman Duck which I've been talking about for some time....J

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

---------------


We live in an age when the majority of people will not take the time to cook and assemble a hamburger sandwich. Why is it a surprise to anyone that lots of folks will not build models from scratch or kits?

Model building is a separate hobby from flying today. We are at the cusp of a new age in modeling.

Remember when if you wanted a faster car than your neighbor's, you had to build your own? I loved hotrodding in those days. Then it got to the point where anyone with enough money could buy a brand new car that was very much faster than my highly modified small block Chevy coupes. I lost interest and quit hotrodding. I'm doing my best to hang in there in modeling even though I'm faced with similar circumstances. We builders are dinosaurs. We are no longer, "The Main Event". If you can live with that, you can continue to build models/kits and have a great time. Of course, you will have to endure the stares and smirks of the unenlightened crowd when you show up at the field with your latest creation. So what?

I'm going to continue to do my thing, regardless of how others view it. I still listen to Grand Funk Railroad, Yes and Eric Clapton, just to name a few. I am a geezer and I've earned the privilege of living in Geezer World. When the young'uns become too interolerable, I put on Wilson Pickett, The Four Tops and The Coasters. Most of them young'uns disappear quickly when that happens. <G>


Ed Cregger

Phil Heller

My Feedback: (9)

O.K.cruzomatic -

Feed the fish to the Crab, the crab to the dog, (who will get sick and die of mercury poisoning), put the kid in daycare, send the frau to her mother. Now you have 11 hours to do what you want! Simple!!!

I can still remember building a Goldberg Valkyrie (free flight), from plans (1946), each rib of the giant elliptical wing had to be constructed seperately and to a different size. the fuse was an oval cross section of formers fitted over a crutch and with many stringers to round out the shape, covered with bright orange silk and clear dope. - powered by a Gold Seal O&R 60 on ignition. A beautiful airplane and a source of pride and pleasureful flying until Uncle Sam and the wild blue yonder called. Would I, or rather, could I attempt that today? Who knows, but I assembled a Rascal 110 in a week (instead of 6 months) and derive as much or more pleasure in flying it. Besides, these arthiritic fingers aren't as nimble as they used to be.

Phil

pilotpete2

Hi Bill,
I couldn't agree more on the first point.
Now as to rebuilding, I'm the opposite, I prefer new construction. I have friends that are very skilled at rebuilding and their results always amaze me. I can do it, but I have to psych myself to get moving on repairs
Regards,
Pete

BillS

Pete,

I think the physiology is that when patching/rebuilding the airplane continues to get better. With limited skills a new build continues to get worse until I simply stop in frustration. Having the skills of a 15 year old and the expectations of a 60 year old seems conflicted.

I very much admire those with building skills.

Bill

GRANT ED

I have built kits but now days most of my planes are ARF.
The main reason for this is simply because the planes I want come as an ARF. The 2nd reason is a lack of time. I would rather spend a week or two putting together a 30% ARF than many months building a kit for the same $$'s.
For me its that simple.

Mode One

I love to build! I think 50% of my enjoyment of this hobby comes from building. I am saddened by the disappearance of kits. I also have a few ARFs and am thankful for them. Since Kit supplies are dwendling, I need to change my focus from kits, to building from plans. Building yourself a kit doesn't really add that much time to building and plans still seem to be available. Since I've done both, I don't see a reason to be specific about whether building from plans or designing your own need to be defined as one being scratch building and the other not. Others will feel different about this, to each his own!

Will parts for kits dry up as kits become less and less available? I would have to say; YES.

I had considered doing a poll on this very subject, as I am very interested in the subject. However, I don't see a topic where the poll would be exposed to a great enough cross section of R/Cers. As I'm not really interested in reading about ARFs, I've spent little time at this topic and I think this is my first post at the ARF or RTF topic. I came to this thread from a referance in Kit Building.

fritzdecat

I would like to be a better builder.
To me it seems many good builders have an intuitive sense of how to solve building problems. I d no have that magic sense to build models like works of they should be.

If there was a night course at a community college that had a primo builder walking you through a kit I think I would love to take it.

For the time being I will buy an arf or better yet an arf already put together and hanging from the ceiling of my fav hobby shop.

Rebellion

My Feedback: (2)

As a kid I loved building C/L and FF kits and even built a few of my own scratchbuilt designs. Fast forward a few decades to adulthood and building or assembling has become just a means to an end. What happened? Who knows, but I do somehow feel a loss.

Since I took up RC about six years ago I have built nothing but ARFs but I think it's time I tried a kit again. There will be a Bluejay Dirty Birdy on the way to my home in the near future. We'll see how it goes.



And Pink Floyd, The Stones, CCR, etc. Yup, I'm a member of that same Geezer club.

mrbigg

My Feedback: (21)

Man, that cowl looks familiar. I think I've seen it somewhere..........

cap10b

All,
I love to build; just don’t have the time or the place to do it. The last plane I built from the ground up was a Yellow A/C Cap10b. Complete with paint and the whole nine yards was in 1992 or 93. I just don’t have the time to devote to building like that and I don’t have a place to build like that. ARF's now are cheaper (when you total up the end product) than I can build my self plus the ARF's are jig build and that is something you really have to work hard at on a 30-35% plane. Now I am venturing into Composite models and will not be working in wood. That's a new step for me, plus working with new materials and new techniques is always a challenge. I think building will never go away but building in wood may be a thing of the past.

jds


Ps- I do get more enjoyment out of flying and setting up the plane than I do building the plane and no I don’t worry about flying something someone else build because most of the stuff I fly is top rated equipment. The buzz on a certain planes quality goes around pretty fast. In fact if I built it I would be more afraid of it than not because I would know that certain parts of the plane looked or came out weak to me. And there is the Krupp Iron Works problem when I build I go over every little part of the airframe by the time I get done you can drive a Russian tank over it and not hurt it.
I get too carried away and wind up ruining the plane by making it too heavy. So I need the top notch ARF makers to build for me.


jds

T.W.

I plan to start building my 56th model in a couple of days time, and although five or so of my most recent planes have been ARTF's, building from either kits or plans still appeals to me enormously (No 57 will be plan-built). I also enjoy occasionally "growing" them on my board too, with no plans to guide me (although the flight characteristics of some of these models have been, well, not good!). But I really enjoy building - especially when the end-result is unusual, or when it flies really well

For me buying an ARTF model isn't a matter of having no time to build. I tend to buy them when I go to a show and see something appealing which, when I examine it, I then think is built better and lighter than I could build for myself. Then there's the "other" reason - when I've had a run of crashes, the weather is great, and I just want to get something in the air again - but quickly!

Anyway, all my current models have now had their Winter maintenance, the building board has been dusted-off, and everything's to hand, so I'm looking forward to getting-to-grips with the Mojo kit I imported from The States late last year as my Winter project - yep, it's been a busy Winter for me

Tony

4*60

My Feedback: (41)

From the beginning of this thread:

I build and enjoy both. This poll is just to stir the pot.
If you only fly ARFs try building a kit. You might enjoy it.
John

That's like saying eat your turnips. you might enjoy them. NO THANKS!

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

4*60 I liked the plane and I like turnips! May you have as many landings as takeoffs.
John

Stickbuilder

That second statement is purely conjecture on your part. If you don't think so, go back and read post #48. We are learning to co-exist, and actually are beginning to help each other.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

Stick
I made that statement I think on the 3rd or 4th posting of the thread. I thought it was just going to turn into a pi****g contest. I was quite surprised when it didn't. I think the reason it did not is that a lot of us including myself build both. Building both you kinda have to respect the other fellows viewpoint.
John

Stickbuilder

I don't do both. I don't, "Assemble" ARF's, but I do build from kits, plans and scratch. We have a parallel thread going on the Cox 1/5th scale WACO YMF here in the ARF forum, and another going in the Vintage and Antique forum on the traditional model. There is a lot of cross-over going on, since there are so many good ideas emanating from both. That gives us all the best of voth worlds. Of course, it shows the worst of both worlds as well. I suppose It's difficult to have one without the other.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1