Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Europe is more expencive, sure, but nearly 100 frikkin bucks? nah, thats just shopkeeper ignorance. And looking from your name, you probably just work for zagi, trying to push theire products on the forums.

ZAGI-XS-=FatalFlyer=-

I had no idea europes money was worth more now. Anyway, I'm not pushing anything, I'm just recommending their product. Zagi was my first wing, and its come along way. Lol... me working for them... I'm only 16 man!! I got school to worry about!!!!

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Said zagi's secret agent.

A zagi SX and an XE2 arnt all that different. Everything is the same. EPP wings nylon strapping tape and carbon sparrs. I think the XE2 is actually better, because theres no plastic cover or motormount that could tear and break, and everything is burrowed inside the wing so nothing can fling out, wich also means less wind resistance, and a cooler motor since its completly exposed. Not to mention its WAY cheaper.

Also, ive got a question about the wings from combatwings.com. Wich should I get, the Mini XE (Span: 36"), or the XE2 (Span: 48"). I guess its got something to do with stall speed, stability, and "stuntability". Ive never flown delta configuration before, but with my hooked up Futaba radio its perty easy on the simulator. No erratic flying, I know wich way to turn to make it do what I want. So what would be the best choice for me? One thing has me puzzled though, the mini, although 10" smaller, is still the same price. [&:]

RickAvery

Freak,
If I may add an impartial view concerning your discussion with fatal flyer, I own a wing warrior e-slayer so zagi or xe2 makes no difference to me. I don't know exactly how many carbon spars the xe2 has but I do know that the zagi has several along with a plywood spar which spans the root of the two wing halves. I was very impressed when I watched my brother-in-law build his zagi and felt how stiff it was compared to my e-slayer. I'm going to make a guess and say that if the xe2 does not have all of the spars of the zagi, it will most likely not be as stiff. Your point about the plastic trays and covers is a good one. I've seen my brother-in-laws bonked into the ground and the hatch flies open spewing the electronics all over. My e-slayer is like the xe2, with everything inside the wing cores. I've never had anything fly out of my wing. But, I've never had a full speed impact into the ground either. With no hatch exposed to the slip-stream, the ex2/e-slayer is most likely more slippery. One thing on the plus side of the zagi hatch is the cooling it provides for the electronics, especially the ESC. If you notice there are two slotted vents on the zagi hatch which allow air to enter the electrics bay. I wonder how no cooling to my ESC which is embedded in the wing will affect its service life. So far no problem. Without modification, I would say that the zagi is the more complete and stiffer design. I have just purchased a brushless motor and will be adding zagi like spars to my e-slayer to stiffen it up before installing it. As i mentioned before, the e-slayer will flapp in stock form. They make shorter wings to go faster. The shorter the wing, the stiffer it can be. Having never flown a short wing, I would only have to guess, but it would probably be more difficult to fly slow when compared to a 48" wing. Go with the big wing. You can always cut it dowm later if you want. Good luck.
Rick

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Rick,

Im not very concerned about stiffness in the wing. I like what I see on the videos, and aslong as mine will kick ass like the ones they have on video, ill be quite happy. The one video humping a fence at reasonable speed also gives me some confidence it wont snap to easily. I can always slip in an extra spar If someone tells me the XE2 will probably fly bad without them.

Im also wondering If its possible to just take off the motor and replace the heavy battery with a light one, and go slope flying?

RickAvery

Freak,
You should be concerned with how stiff the wing is. I'm quite sure that the xe2 will fly great and that you'll be looping and rolling in no time. I'm having a blast with mine loops, rolls, inverted all kinds of crazy stunts that are very fun to try. I garrentee that one stunt you'll try is get it up high and put her into a steep full throttle dive. Hear the motor wind up, see how fast they rip along, and then watch the wings start to ripple and flap. I was told this would happen with mine and it happened. A stiffer platform is less likely to do this. I'm not a pro-zagi person. I just know that after building and flying my wing, and seeing how a zagi XS is designed and built, I think that out of the box, the zagi is stiffer. I plan on making my e-slayer a zagi killer. It has a thinner profile and without a hatch sticking in the wind has the potential to be even better than, read faster, a zagi. But only after some modifications to stiffen it up and zagi seems to have that design down pretty good. You're going to have fun with any of the wings you try and you'll probably eventually see the xe2 start to flap as you go faster, hopefully I'll be wrong. Good luck, I know you'll have a blast!!
Rick

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Theres a possability to stick in extra spars, But I think its the balsa flat stick that does it? And yes, ripping past at blistering speeds was on the agenda. Im thinking of putting in some extra spars, but only if that prevents it from the wobble. How do you put it in? Just knife a stip out of the wing, and shoegoop it in? I think the XE2 has only 1 spar running straight down the middle and inside the core?

The reason im not going for the zagi, is because people say it sucks at flying inverted, and its to fat or something.

RickAvery

Freak,
I don't know how thick the xe2 is, but the zagi is a little bit thicker than the e-slayer. Not a bunch, but a little bit. If the xe2 has only one spar, same as the e-slayer, I'd almost bet my next paycheck that it's going to flap. Zagis fly fine inverted. My begineer brother-in-law can do it. I choose mine just by dumb luck. I asked about wings on this forum and what I found out is that wings are good fliers. Any of them. Take your pick.
Rick

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Heres what ill do. Ive got a file on my disk "How to build a zagi.pdf". Ill check that out, and put the tape and any extra spars just as in the pdf. That ll fix the problem I hope.

BTW: Have you checked out those stock XE2 video's? They rip past a racing car at aprox. 50mph, and though hard to see, they look fine to me. Nice and straight path. Ill check with the site owner if that wing has extra spars in it, but im perty sure its completly out of the box standard.

Im not trying to prove the XE2 doesnt flap, dut they sure do look perty steady, doing sick speeds.

ZAGI-XS-=FatalFlyer=-

Yeah freakazoid, I dunno where you heard about the zagi-xs not flying inverted well. I can fly my plane inverted at half throttle all the way around the park for as many laps as I like or untill the battery dies lol... And as for the XE2 if it has 1 carbon tube down the center wing span of the wing, it will flap I will bet you everything it will flap. When I started flying wings, I bought zagi's 400X model, and it was an awesome wing. But after flying it for about 2 months, it started to wobble on me in dives, and then soon it became so lose it wobbles in high speed passes!! And this was with the 400 motor. Zagi and Unicorn are the only wing makers I know of that, have got the flap issue down. And as for the plastic tray and cover on the zagi, it really makes no difference since its such a low profile design. And the cooling for the motor is just as good, since its also exposed. Pretty much everything is cooled when in flight.

-Steven

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Earlier on someone said the electronics pop out on a rough impact. You wont have that with the XE2. And I think cramming in a plate of wood like the Zagi XS would fix perty much everything.

Also, look at the price. Im perty sure a zagi will be much more expencive. XE2 complete with battery costs 127 dollar, Zagi-400XS with the same stuff costs 149. Its the same size, same material, same motor and everything, so is it really worth 22 extra bucks? Not to mention ill have to get it all the way from the US, because theres probably no dealer in europe..

ZAGI-XS-=FatalFlyer=-

The electronics only come out if your have an impact.... But why would you want an impact in the first place anyway... hmmm...... And as for the electronics coming out, the only thing thats come out on me so far was just the battery still connected the ESC. my hitec 555 receiver is velcroed into place.

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Well why would I want a combat wing, if I dont plan on having some impacts? [&:] If im not going to hit something, I might aswell build me an ulralight and cheap balsa oracover wing... Crash happens, no matter what. The price and dealer issue still remains..
[hr]
EDIT: Im going to shoot my own price arguement..
Atlanta hobbys has got the zagi SX for only 139 and thats with battery (1800mAh insted of the 1500mAh that you get with the XE2 kit!), ESC, motor AND a roll of covering tape included. So its actually cheaper then a XE2... Doh. [&:] For $ 157.97 Im all ready to go. For that I'll get the Zagi SX complete with motor ESC, battery and charging wire, 2 rolls of covering tape, adhesive spray, and a rol of fibertape for that extra toughness. At combatwings it was more like 170+ dollars. But dont cheer to early, Im betting the shipping will be a kingsize *****.

Also I thought the zagi had only 2 stiffening spars, but its got not 2, not 3, its got 5 spars! So, yeh thats stiffer and tougher then anything.

Im going to check out if theire shipping to holland now.. If not, forget what I said. [:-]

RickAvery

Freak,
We wouldn't tell you wrong! Fatal flyer, Steven, was the one who told me even before I had the e-slayer built up that it would flap. And it does. The problem with the flapping is like steven also mentioned, after awhile the tape starts to come loose because of the flapping and then it flaps at lesser and lesser speeds as it becomes looser. I noticed my slayer starting to wobble a bit on level WOT fly bys last night. Once they start to flap, they go downhill fast. I need to pull all of the tape off, sand it smooth, insert all of the carbon spars and plywood backbone al-la zagi, and then retape. With my new astro-flight 020 BL motor, and a new stiff body, I'm looking for that baby to RIP!! I'm not trying to sell zagis, I just know what I see, and out of the box, zagi has a good product. I liked the coffee candy.
Rick

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Atlanta hobbys just mailed me the shippingcosts, and boy, do they hurt.. 33.45 bucks for 4-10 day airmail.. But an RC freak's gotta do what an RC freak's gotta do.. right? They also offer to send it as a "gift", to avoid those nasty tax vultures. Do you guys think I should go with that, or is it to risky?

Zagi it is then. I like the "Broadbuilt thug" eyes its got on the lid better then the gaping battery hole on a XE2, anyway. [>:] Modding it to a lipo + brushless monster will probably be way easier with the zagi aswell, not having to peel it like a banana (In my case, REALLY like a banana. See pics below) to get to the electrics and all. Are ALL the electronics in the little box container thingy? How would you balance on CG it that way? Dig some coins into the foam or something?

What about the winglets? Ive heard the stock ones flutter like a monkey in heat. Ive seen people strapping coroplast ones onto it instead. Ive also heard people using velcro to attach it, to get field repairs done quicker?

Ive finally made up my mind on its colorscene.
Nice banana yellow, with (what I think are) american stars on it. Ive jotted it down in my 3d Renderer.
The belly of the beast will be the same, exept for the centerpiece having an extra layer of blue tape to function as a landing skid and visibility marking to make up top from bottom.
I came up with it when I was googling for Ideas. Ive included the pics of what it ll be, and what it orriginated from.
What do you think?

Any additional build tips are most sertainly welcome.

ZAGI-XS-=FatalFlyer=-

-FreakAZoid
Yay!! Your buying a Zagi!! lol... Good choice man! As for the winglets, I use the fiber filament tape that comes with the XS kit for everything, the elevons, the winglets, motor tray, cover tray. It works great. I've almost eliminated the fluttering winglets by reinforcing them with another thin piece of tape on the side, taped verticaly. And yes coroplast does eleminate all flutter, and is strong as hell. But its a b*tch to cut, from what I hear from the two zagi flyers I go flying with.

-RickAvery
When did you buy the astro 020!!! Yay, another good choice! lol.... Did you get the new one, like I have? The Astro 020 5 turn pusher? AHH MAN, your gonna rip with that sucker on there!!

-Steven

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Yo fatalflyer, Since you da man on zagi's, Do you mind awnsering some more of my questions?

All questions are about a stock zagi, here it goes:
[ul][*] How well does it behave in heavy wind, lets say the beach?[*] How well does it take to smacking into goalposts at about max speed, when practicing limbo/pylon flying?[*] How well will it glide at low speed?[*] Can I take off the motor and heavy battery, to go slope gliding? Or can I just leave them on and go gliding anyway?[*] Do I need lots of space for flying, or will a double soccerfield do?[*] Ive never flown delta before, but on the sim with my radio plugged in, it flies perty easy to me. Will it be hard to get the hang of it?[*] Have you ever managed to damage your zagi to a point you had to go home to fix it?
[/ul]

Thats about it, but ill haver some more later on.

RickAvery

Freak,
I can help on a couple of your questions, and let Fatal-flyer chime in as needed. Yes, the OEM winglets are junk on the zagi. Very flimsy. My bro-in-law went with coroplast. I've seen my bro-in-law drive his straight into the ground full speed with minimal damage several times. Hard landings are no problem. Love that EPP. Don't know about the slope gliding thing, you would certainly have to check the CG. A double soccer field should be fine but the thing will eat up a lot of ground real fast. Steven, help out the Freak! LOL. Good Luck!!
Rick

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Rick,

Im glad to hear the wing isnt a wuss about going face down in the mud. Ill get myself some coroplast, just in case.
Though the field isnt very big, I can go perty far over some treetops though. Just have to watch out with altitude.
Theres some WAY big fields (Im talking a square mile with nothing but grass, no fences or crap) around my place, but those are to far for a quick bikeride to the park with the zagi stapped on my back (Not like buzz lightyear though ). Ive attached a pic. The red box (look closely or youll miss it) is my house, the green stuff is... yup..

And the questions about gliding with wind and at the beach and stuff, is because I live quite near the coast, and nothing would be sweeter then to get flight times of up to like... a whole day! [8D] Ive seen some slope/beach gliding combat, and those wings look perty nimble, with just the wind powering them.

Anyway, its good to hear people saying its a good choice.

- Sven

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

*BUMP*

I got a PM from RWP, I hope you dont mind me quoting it.
So there you have it. Im going nuts! [&:][]
I REALLY dont know what to do anymore... Zagi will drop like a brick on slow flight, and the XE2 will probably flop like a ripe banana at high speeds.. I really dont know anymore... Heeeeelp.

XE2 - Will flop I guess. (Though the videoclips look perty good to me)
Zagi - Stalls to quick. (Wich is probably true because of the loads of plastic and stuff packed onto it)
Unicorn - Everyone keeps saying this is the best one, but frankly it doesnt seem all that speciall to me. Just the same old cores and spars. And its expencive.
eSlayer - No retailer found for this one yet.

I woulnd worry about coast gliding tomuch, that ll be 2 or 3 times a year at most. And a little powered flight with help from the wind isnt all that bad to me. I just want to be able to take an easy landing. Not having to dart at 1ft off the ground at 40mph would do. Check out the videos of the XE2. Thats what I want it to be able to do.

For as far as I can see from all the facts, id be best off with an XE2, with an extra spar or 2 glued in, and a good nylon tape-up. But what I say, usually is wrong... []
[hr]
If this is how fast the unicorn always flies, id have to say thanks but no thanks. Im only looking for low stall speed, not low.. speed. That thing looks like its doing about 10mph at level. I think at that speed it wont even be able to pull off a loop. Sofar the XE2 seems to be the best Ive seen. It flies slow and easy, it flies fast and agile, its motor is easy to take off for slope gliding. The only problem is, that it ll supposedly flop like crazy, after a while. I think im going to give the XE2 a shot, and just glue 1 or 2 extra spars into it, zagistyle (cut a groove along the wing, spray a spar till its dripping wet, drop it in, glue a scrap piece of foam ontop, and sand it a little to make it smooth).
[hr]
I just recieved a reply from combatwings.com, concerning the flopping bit.

ZAGI-XS-=FatalFlyer=-

Hey FreakAzoid, and thanks Rick for helpin me out a few posts up. Sorry I just got home from school yay!! Okay here's your questions in order.

How well does it behave in heavy wind, lets say the beach? ( Wings love the wind, you'll be hovering in place if the winds are strong enough, and once you strap a brushless its like wind... wait what wind... )

How well does it take to smacking into goalposts at about max speed, when practicing limbo/pylon flying? ( One of the zagi XS pilots I go flying with, did a head on crash at full speed into a telephone poll, he then picked it up and threw it back into the air. )

How well will it glide at low speed? ( I dunno bout others, but I can fly my XS pretty slow just takes an expiernced pilot to be able to control it)

Can I take off the motor and heavy battery, to go slope gliding? Or can I just leave them on and go gliding anyway? ( I don't see whynot, the Zagi 5C is the same design just without the motor and tray, just make sure you can get it around 17-18 ounces like the Zagi 5C)

Do I need lots of space for flying, or will a double soccerfield do? (Lol... Thats plenty man... I've flown in parks half the size of a soccer field)

Ive never flown delta before, but on the sim with my radio plugged in, it flies perty easy to me. Will it be hard to get the hang of it? ( Depends on the pilot, just set your radio to minimial throws and fly it untill you feel comfortable and then up the throws for extreme aerobatics.)

Have you ever managed to damage your zagi to a point you had to go home to fix it? ( Lol.... damage... hmm.... Well I've crashed it into the ground full speed before upside down and the only thing that broke was my motor tray, my prop, and my receiver but it needed to be tuned up anyway. But thats all 2 minute repairs.. soo yea... Zagi is pretty much indistructable...

Okay I think that answers all your questions

There's alot of wings out there, but personally man the only one I can help you with is a Zagi so its up to you to figure out everything else on the other wings out there.

-Steven

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

That just proves the zagi isnt really a wing for me.. YET... [>:] It doesnt handle very friendly when its flying slow, wich is a killer for beginners. Barreling down the park with 200 bucks worth of gear around at +40mph can be much of a handfull for someone thats never flown delta before. The best I flew before this, is a badius slowglider wich maxes out at about 10mph or so.[&:] As for setting the throws, im blessed with a medium fancy computer radio, that has dualrate switches on it, so I can fly it up real high on beginner throw, flick it to power mode, and give it an easy twirl. I can flick the throw switches back to easy mode long before it gets to low. So im perty sure I can learn how to controll these *******s without tomuch damage.

I think ill go for the XE2 with extra spars for now, to have a ball getting the hang of the controls and medium speed. And If I ever need more (and im perty sure I will), I could always chew out my XE2 trainer wing for parts or convert it to motorless slopeglider, and go for a completly pimped zagi monster with brushless and lipo and everything. Learn to drive in a stationwagon before going for the tricked out pimpmobile's, right .

Im also wondering if its really worth it to install servo savers, or buy metalgeared servo's?

777

My Feedback: (1)

[/quote]

This is absolutely the last time that I'm going to pimp for the Unicorn!

Hopefully you didn't miss what I said earlier about the approximate flight speed of a stock speed 400 in a Unicorn. From that video, it sounds like he's flying in a lot of wind & he's heading directly into it! That's going to slow him down bunches!

What makes it special & much more "floaty" than other wings is the airfoil. It was designed by glider guys who know a thing or two about gliding. It has a more convex shape to the top of the wing than any other flying wing that I have ever seen. This contributes to it's above average lift.

You should go to the "other" RC board & look at the very long, ongoing thread about Unicorns. Does it seem logical that because "everyone keeps saying that it's the best" that there might be some merit to that? That's what I concluded when I was in the market............. so I bought one. I have bought several wings since & have never found another one since that I enjoy as much. If I could, I'd trade them all in for Unicorns.

Brad

ZAGI-XS-=FatalFlyer=-

Yeah 777 is right, Unicorn has elminated the dreaded tip stall. When you said that it would spiral at 40 mph lol.... when the zagi tip stalls its more like a floating cork screw, it doesn't fall all that quick. Just apply power and your out of it in a breeze. I'd try a Unicorn but I dont have any money!!!! I'm just too into my Zagi

-Steven

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Ive seen loads of stock unicorn videos, all of em show an underpowered wing that would probably never preform any fun aerobatics besides the occasional roll.. And please dont start "Put this on, put that on", because with enough money I could make a whale do loops. Asfar as ive seen it now, the stock unic is just an overrated glider. I want a cheap stock fun flyer.

Show me a video with a Unicorn doing decent moves, and I might think about it. Or as the americans say "Put your money where your mouth is."

Im not trying to diss people and ignore theire help, I just want a little more proof before pushing any money on it.