BJ64

Sounds good

It's a pity they pulled them from production - they're a sweet-as plane. If they were still available, I'd get at least 2 of them.

These guys look to have made some sort of copy: http://www.nitrorcx.com/wa3arfdr11ep.html

But they're a bit weird, and I'm not sure yet if they're legit or not (from what I've been reading in other threads, and my own emails to them).

Let us know how you get on with your build - I'm really interested to see if I can conjour something up too...

BJ

saucerguy

I'll toss a few out to my friends pro bono, just expect to do some sanding lol. They discontinued it for many reasons, original power system was very weak and it was a dog of a combined system, when I converted mine to brushless and lipo, man o man, what a super fast plane, and it again showed me another reason why they discontinued it as well, it's too darn small of an object to keep track of, which is why the funjet which is the same basic design for the most part but was larger.

BJ64

The guy that flies his locally here put the 'big V8' parts on his too, and it fairly screams along. Kinda sounds like a realy angry 'skeeter LoL.

He loves doing low fast passes, then standing it vertical and aileron-rolling it till it's out of sight - all of a about 3 seconds

So I can see how the size thing became an issue...

Still, I love watching him fly that MicroJet. Just one long continuous controlled crash... ball-tearer!

BK

saucerguy

Got the feeling that the above poster really wants to be my friend. lol I wonder why??? It's Mircrojet fever, that sucker was ahead of it's time!!!

critterhunter

Hey guys. Glad to see the thread is still marching on! Other matters have taken my time for the last few months so I haven't been doing any flying/building. Mainly my other hobby is metal detecting for old coins and rings and it's been a real good summer in the way of finds so I've spent most of my free time doing that. Since the weather has got worse I'll be doing some scratch building in the garage again to wile away the winter months. Plan to keep up on the thread more. I'll be printing out all the latest messages since I was last on so I can see how things has been going for you guys. Good to touch base again!

BJ64

Heya Critter

Long time no see.

Good to catch up with you again mate.

BJ

critterhunter

You too. How did the foam search go and what have you built hotwiring? I'm planning on building a bipe with a custom winded 1100 k/v scorpion motor in the near future. The plane will be my own design, of course. Always wanted a bi-plane but only built one so far which never flew...RX problem that I didn't want to fix and ended up tearing the plane apart for parts. This one will be a monster. Probably a 3 to 4' wingspan. Rather large/bulky/but wicked torque type of deal. Will post pictures as I go as always.

Saucerguy. Thanks for the emails but no time to answer at the moment. Will try to respond soon.

BJ64

Still haven't turned up any decent foam here Critter - but I managed to find a couple of sources that sell the yellow version of the blue foam you get over there. And not priced too steeply (though it's probably a shi.t load more than you would pay for it over there).

I haven't done a lot of work on the F111 of late, so I haven't been cutting any foam.

Post your build-pics - I'd love to see a big bipe

Lots of lattice-work etc??

I'm playing with a little 'project' at the moment - fitting up a lil Fox glider (see pic) to run a Park 250 2200Kv outrunner. Just got the sub-micro Servo's the other day, but the darn things come with mini JST male plugs on them - and I haven't been able to find a source of male/female connectors to be able to make extension/converter leads to plug them in to my Spektrum AR6110e Rx. Soooo... it looks like I've got some cutting/soldering in front of me.

BJ

BJ64

Here she is then...

BJ

critterhunter

That looks good. I've been working on a new AP plane. Pretty much the same design as my last one but with a thick carbon boom to replace the heavier plastic tube I had for the other one. The first build of that plane flew great but I crashed it due to a blown elevator control. I re-built it twice and couldn't get it trimmed out again before further destroying those, so I hope this time I can get the latest build back up with no problems. I'll throw up some pictures when done.

I was PM'ed about the new link to Foam Flyer's build plans for the So. It can be found here...

http://www.foamflyer.info/plane.html

Swift427

This popular informative thread (33,653 views) has come full circle back to its beginning with ... http://www.foamflyer.info/plane.html

Wouldn't thousands of us buy a 3-channel one aileron twin boom pusher foamy kit if it were available. It's advantages as a fairly indestructible aileron trainer for parkflyers as well as for combat flyers seems like a no-brainer. One would think an inexpensive kit could become almost as popular as the GWS Slow Stick. Why doesn't anyone market a kit (with a few replacement parts). What am I missing?

You'd think by now there would be at least one outlet for a fairly inexpensive molded kit w/colorful decals. I've Googled "twin boom pusher kit", but without any success other than numerous build plans from scratch. It seems like a good design for a KIS aileron trainer as well as for combat flying fun.

If any one could find a similar molded foamy kit design(or wire cut) on the market it would be critterhunter. There's got to be at least one kit for sale out there somewhere ... No?

saucerguy

Swift, flip back a few pages, I actually have produced kits off of these lines. I only do them in limited production runs since there really is no money in doing them this way, but I do plan upon getting kit land back in the swing of things some time this summer.

Swift427

Agreed, but simple inexpensive flat foam kits mass produced in China are available. For example the LightFlite Bug. I’m beginning to wonder if the basic So.11 reason it's not available as a kit is it’s pusher propulsion. Unobstructed forward field of view, field of fire, reconnaissance or cockpit noise … so what’s that to a parkflyer. The advantages of push propulsion is rather obvious for a sleek pylon racer, jet or rocket. So, is there really any definite flying perk or challenge of a twin boom pusher like Foamflyer's So.11 for either a novice parkflyer or intermediate/advanced pilot. Or is the primary reason so obvious it needs no explanation ... that being all slow learning parkflyers that are crash prone or those that believe you must be doing something wrong if you aren't constantly crashing.

Has any one ever seen a gas/nitro flat foam combat SPAD flyer outfitted with rear engine pusher prop? If most all combat flyers are pullers then what is the best suited application for a medium speed twin boom pusher like the So.11 with good glide ratio. For example would the So.11 possibly be one of the most practical and inexpensive flying critters in the category of an inexpensive aileron trainer for slow learning parkflyers? Otherwise, why should someone build one other than to say they can now add a twin boom pusher to their build list.

I’ve scanned through both threads (I&II) but haven’t come across any explanation of the advantages of this So.11 pusher design over that of flat foam puller designs. Isn't that the REAL reason an inexpensive twin boom pusher kit isn't marketed?

BJ64

Not really sure what you're getting at there, Swift old bean.

Does being a 'pusher prop' mean it's an inferior aircraft design, and/or that the 'Park Flyers' using them have limited or no skills?

If so, then I'd invite you down to a local field here where there's a Multiplex Micro Jet doing the rounds in the 100-200 kmh bracket? - I'm thinking 200+, actually. Or Strykers and and Fun Jets doing well over 100 kmh? Dare you to tell these guys that 'pusher-props' are for Wimps...

BJ

saucerguy

It's good to see the molds for the microjet still staying in service, be it, renamed, cannot believe they put some cheap brushed gear on that latest version, didn't the speed 400 dog set up be considered enough.

With the other fake remark along pusher's, and it's dialog, will just leave it as that, fake posts and not really hard to figure that one out.

It's an easy plane to create from scratch, the thing is really hard to destroy in full, once built, so makes a really good plane to learn off of, be it, it's not some mega dihedral, ugly monster, it's not necessarily a bird the total noob should shy away from, yet it's going to take at least some sim time with aileron style flight to fly correctly regardless.

BJ64

There's 'Micro Jets' being re-produced somewhere? Really??

I'd love to get my hands on one - any idea how to go about it?

I reckon they'd make an excellent Turbine trainer....

BJ

Swift427

BJ64,

I think what you meant to say was, “Dare you tell these guys that Foamflyers So.11 twin boom pusher is for slow learning parkflyers.” If you read critterhunter’s first post in Part 1 he says, “I wanted to find a first build that would be easy and simple for slow learners like me.” Flying 100-200kmh or “200+” was not critterhunter’s original/primary purpose in Part 1 or 2 of this build thread based on Foamflyer’s simple inexpensive So.11 twin boom pusher design ... let's try to say on the original flight path of this thread.

You’re definitely among the ranks of a Top Gun as evident by your posts and advanced build/mod experience whether the Micro Stryker, Fox ThrowGlider mods or FA-18C (see attachments). So I’m curious as are others who’d appreciate your seasoned take/suggestions on the following.

IF you were starting again today near the front of the learning curve as an above average gifted 12 year old, teenager or old bean … that already had your fill of two channel toy experience (and a high interest/aptitude for designing, modifying and/or building a foamy from scratch) what plane on the market do you think would most capture your interest as your FIRST 3-4 channel plane project? Assume you also have access to a very knowledgeable flying buddy who knows all about buying parts from places like HobbyCity, understands prop selection, glues, 3M hinge tape, first-class workbench, magnifying lamp, tools and more tools, etc, etc. etc.

Next, what FIRST 3-4 channel plane do you think would be the most advantageous or practical for best speeding you along the learning curve, even if this blue one doesn’t excite you (turn your crank) as much as the speedier red one.

What flat foamy build design (pusher or puller) would you recommend for a 3-4 channel inexpensive aileron trainer for a slow learning parkflyer that has the interest/aptitude/help for tackling such a project from scratch.

Thanks,
Old Bean(slow learner)[sm=49_49.gif]

BJ64

...and your point is...??

BJ

Swift427

Some of us are interested in the original intent of this thread as it applies to an interest in building a flat foamy twin boom pusher. I thought perhaps you might have some insights to offer, but apparently not. If you don't then what is your purpose in posting in this thread. Your occasional posts are all about speedier molded pusher planes like a Micro-Stryker, Micro-jet, Fun Jet, FA-18C, 111 ... . Aren't there enough jet threads and Stryker threads to satisfy your posting penchant for going 100-200kmh or 200+.

Considering your ongoing unwillingness to offer input/suggestions with respect to this thread's intent could lead us to conclude you think an inexpensisve flat foamy twin boom build project is a waste of time (at least for your interests). You won't offer any input (flat foam pusher) or express any interest in having built or plan to build a simple inexpensive flat foam pusher using an inexpensive brushed motor similar to Foamflyer's So.11 http://www.foamflyer.info/plane.html

You're beginning to sound like a wise guy with your curt replies and your apparent unwillingness to join in this flat foamy twin boom discussion. Seriously, do you have nothing to offer (input/suggetions) with respect to critterhunter's flat foam twin boom pusher Here's A Simple & Free First Foam Build Plan! thread.

Please prove me wrong if you have any interest/insight at all in an inexpensive flat foam twin boom pusher build project.

Old Bean (slow learner) [sm=71_71.gif]

BJ64

Mate...whatever you're on, give them away. They are not working for you.

You haven't posted a single design on this thread yourself, yet you seem content to pick others' designs and posts to pieces - choosing the bits you want to push whatever it is in that barrow of yours.

All I've really seen from you so far is bagging the work of other posters in this thread, and constant whining and bi.tching about the fact that RTF foamie manufacturers seem to churn out only 3ch ER designs but no 3ch AE designs. Hair-splitting peoples efforts in here and antagonising them isn't going to make that happen.

I enjoy watching what Critter is building and I admire the things he creates from foam. It's amazing what one can actually get to fly. That's what drew me to this Thread in the first place. That, and the sharing of ideas and friendly banter of the other like-minded people in here.

The fact that I posted material of some things that weren't entirely scratch-built or 'twin boom pusher' is something that you are just going to have to learn to get over...

BJ

Swift427

Neither have you(twin boom foamy pusher prop) ... here's a Multiplex Fox twin boom pusher prop mod … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI7vcvKUsic

Not so fast mate! It’s only your posts (not poster"s”). I don't think you understand that there is no shame in being a slow learner. Not all parkflyers are as gifted as you. The basic premise of this thread ... building an inexpensive 3-channel one aileron foamy twin boom pusher and similar related foamy prop pushers. Please don’t take such offense if you mistakenly think I'm out to get you. Afterall, I’m a slow learner so please give me some slack. Maybe, my questions/concerns are too confrontational, but that doesn't mean they're unrelated or mentally deficient just because I'm not as fast as you.

Try to accept constructive criticism instead of boiling over with flaming replies.

The fact that I’m more interested in this 3 channel foamy twin boom pusher build thread THAN reading your flaming afterburner replies is something that you are going to have to accept/control/stop.

I’ve attached a couple pictures and a couple youtube videos of a really neat ARF build kit for a VERTIGO FORMOST 150. This kit is priced at $169.95 non-retract or $169.95 retract ready.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdRpG...ayer_embedded#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzlRwCvlqDM&NR=1

Enjoy [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

BJ64

*clicks the IGNORE button*

There.......much better !

BJ

saucerguy

Children, please, and I mean please, lol Get along, will have to dig up the past here on this little foam flyer thread. Going back to the first one thread wise, take note I modded the foam flyer into a tractor, put in a bl motor that was designed to replace a .40 engine, put in a smaller pack, yet 14" prop combo with it all, made it really fast, made it ugly, but the thing is down right intimidating even for the seasoned rc pilot to handle. All on this little So.. line as it's core to begin with, be it no longer pusher any more at this stage.

It can be muscled into place to do what ever you want, it can be modeled into place to resemble it's p38 or something style of bird as well, it's an excellent platform to start out with and mod into your own creations. Hell, I even have the thing kitted out for those that need things done for them due to workspace or skill, or not wanting to invest the time and money into setting up their own foam cutting systems.

The prefabbed anything, dabble with it, but it's absolutely not in line with the nature of this line, nor this thread, so please gentlemen, take the issues outside of it on this one, especially since we are talking about mass produced planes, which have zero place here...much less, any of us "trio" have any vested interest in what so ever.

BJ64

Sorry - wrong person (??)

BJ

Swift427

The last So.11 foamy twin boom pusher aileron/elevator shown on this Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2) was Critterhunter’s "Tin Cow" on 6.1.09 (see photo). Both the 3 channel “So What” and a modern jet rely more on aileron/elevator control than rudder/elevator. The aileron/elevators (and flap) are capable of maneuvering a jet in all three axes (roll, pitch, yaw), providing a much simpler mechanism than the conventional control surfaces (rudder). Added safety is accomplished by removing lateral control from the wings. Weight savings and reduced drag also result from eliminating the vertical stabilizer and rudder and consolidating the controls for both ailerons and elevators of conventional aircraft.

This 3.13.08 summary by Critterhunter is worth reading again …

Knowing what I know now, I'd say that an aileron/elevator plane would be in some respects just as easy or even easier to learn on if it was configured right...IE: dihedral. The So 11 would be a first class choice, not just because of it's cheap and simple build/repair design, but also because the plane gives you a great "feel and feedback" to what it's doing. It's got more ‘traction’ and ‘acts’ more like you think it should act with response to various control inputs, if you know what I'm trying to say. The single aileron configuration also would help to buffer the over mobbing of the sticks that is typical of new pilots as said above.

Having rudder on a plane? I've only recently started adding rudder to my planes (within the past year or so) and am still hardly using it. Not that I don't want to, but I often forget I have it to play with. That's no lie. For instance, with the second maiden of So #4 I flew it without ever thinking about the rudders until I had already landed. Rudders are great but I think they get in the way of learning an aileron/elevator plane. It's better not to even have it on the plane until later when you have the other controls down well.

In summary see Critterhunter’s other posts of 3.21.09,3.23,3.27,4.1,4.3,4.16, and 6.1.09. Also, saucerguy’s $20 kit (posted 11.6.08) and last but certainly not least are all of Fisher's posts (e.g. review of 1.23.08).

This 3.12.08 summary by Fisher is worth reading again ...

I too have been looking for that perfect beginner plane. Inexpensive, easy to build and repair, easy to modify, wide flight envelope, good looks etc and relatively easy to fly. The SO fits many of these attributes to a T.

What I do know is that there are some characteristics that hold true for all beginner planes.

1. Speed kills (but it is nice to have when you are ready for it). - use a small brushed motor or go very easy on the throttle.
2. A poorly trimmed plane of any sort is not what a beginner should be starting with. Make sure you trim the plane before a beginner starts flying.
3. Wind is your enemy. Avoid flying in any wind until you have a feel for true flight behavior.
4. Give yourself plenty of room (vertically and horizontally).
5. If you are not having fun you are doing something wrong.

If I were going to market the SO as an RTF it would take some real thought as to how to break it down for packaging without requiring a lot of assembly. In my mind that is what is stopping folks from marketing this type of design. Though there are some P-38s out there.

I did come across a thread discussing the use of a Stryker body with minimal electronics and motor to provide a very slow flying A/E controlled plane. The results seemed very good. It was as much a powered glider than anything else. With a very light weight Stryker build (the opposite of the Bullet Proof version) you have a slow flying aileron plane that can be used as a trainer. Same goes for the SO. Both air frames have good glide ratios. For a beginner though an $18 air frame may be easier to handle than building a SO from scratch.[/b]

Signing Off,
Old Bean

P.S. Is this the only "soo" video ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyc5gRjHlfU (posted on 12/5/08)