<div>First post here... I'm a total noob, so apologies if this has been covered to death. I tried and couldn't find that much using the search engine.</div><div></div><div>First off, I've got zero experience with RC planes. I've always loved planes and aerospace though and am planning to learn to fly RC. I know all you pros out there can give me some good advice and I've already learned so much by lurking here. I really appreciate any help and advice you guys can give me. </div><div></div><div>A little background and some rambling on my project idea first, or you can skip right to the questions if reading excited noob rambling isn't your thing...</div><div></div><div></div><div>What got me going was seeing how cheap everything has gotten. I do some electronics work and I got hooked learning about autopilots and how cheap GPS, IMUs, gyros, etc. have become. FPV and photography also seem fun to play with.</div><div></div><div>I plan to start with an electric trainer like the airfield sky trainer RTF. I'd love to build my own, but the package deals seem pretty good vs. buying all the parts, and I'd like to design my own from scratch (based on other's designs, of course) when I do.</div><div></div><div>I was pretty disappointed in the controller options out there. Many are really expensive, and most of the cheap ones are 2.4 ghz or only have a few channels. I don't think 2.4 ghz is a good band to use. It's really crowded and noisy with the millions of WiFi devices, microwaves, cordless phones, etc. out there (at least in my small town). I also don't like the LOS issues and limited range as I'm in a fairly hilly area. It's also a problem if you want to use cheap 2.4g cameras, and one idea I also would like to try is putting a WiFi module on the plane for downloading hi-def video when access points are in range.</div><div></div><div>Given my interest in UAVs, FPV, photography, autopilots, long range, etc., and my electronics/programming experience I started looking at other transmitter options. I found the OpenLRS project, which is based on a Hope RF module, which uses a Silicon Labs radio chip. SiLabs now makes a SoC (system on a chip) radio that combines a radio on a chip and a microcontroller. The OpenLRS uses a RF module and a separate microcontroller. The specs are... 433 MHz, 100 mW TX, with an amazing -121 dB receive sensitivity, all combined with a really low current draw.</div><div></div><div>Anyways, I came up with the idea of using the Si1000 (or 1001, 1010, or 1011) SoC radio as a TX/RX combo. Hopefully, using a SoC radio and a simple serial PWM controller IC (probably a 16ch TLC5940) I could build a transmitter and receiver for super cheap with long range and low current draw. By using a PWM controller IC to control the servos I'm hoping to get better PWM performance, a ton of channels (up to 16!), and off load any clumsy software based PWM to a dedicated IC. This should save a lot of clock cycles, which I hope to use to see how many autopilot, flight stabilization, fail-safes, etc. I can cram onto a single chip. Most of my experience is with AVR though, so I really don't know how much clock I'll have to spare.</div><div></div><div>I'll be happy if I can just build a 433 MHz, 100 mW TX/RX combo with lots of channels and the ability to communicate with an autopilot board and/or relay sensor and telemetry data. The ultimate would be to squeeze every feature ever dreamt of onto a single chip mounted onto a postage stamp sized board along with one other IC, and have the whole thing run for days on a AAA battery. ... It sounds like a pipe dream to me too, but if I'm going to layout a board and go through all the hassle of SMT work, programming the controller, and working out all the bugs... I figure I better design this thing from the ground up for ultimate cheapness, features, and performance. I'll also be getting almost all the components for free by ordering samples from the semiconducter companies, and I don't believe in bull****ting them for engineering samples just to build existing designs for cheap. If my project works out it will be a new open source design for them to add as a reference design or application note if they want and I'll raise the money to do a small production run of boards if there is much interest.</div><div></div><div></div><div>A few questions that hopefully have simple answers to anyone with real world experience...</div><div></div><div>#1. Why do all the controllers I see use the two stick design? What advantage is this over a single stick, joystick-style controller?</div><div></div><div>I get the generals about the control functions of each stick, but it's been burning me trying to figure out why we wouldn't use a regular computer-style joystick, or at least have that option on the market. Those little sticks seem potentially hard to use. I imagine them as touchy and sensitive, with their short length making the same degree of motion much smaller at the end than if you had a longer stick to hang on to. Most fly-by-wire and old planes going back to the Wright brother's flier seem to use single sticks. I've got an old Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Pro laying around I was thinking of trying to use. It's got 4 buttons on the stick, 4 on the base, a throttle, 8-way hat switch, and the entire stick twists left and right for rudder control. That would give it a possible 20 channels of control. Obviously you don't need that many, but it would allow for configuration. I would think something like this (or even using foot petals) would be nice for FPV, and a more like a full size plane's controls. Pic and review: http://www.sunstorm.com/ceo/reviews/3dpro.htm</div><div></div><div>I ask also because I want to get my controller project going as easily as possible and it would be cheapier and easier to have my TX linked to a laptop with a controller plugged into the laptop. Otherwise I'd have to work out a hardware/software implementation directly on the TX board. If this doesn't sound like it would work well I could also use one of those regular RC-looking controllers that they sell for RC flight sims.</div><div></div><div>#2. How to all the features on those fancy controllers work, and which ones are most important?</div><div></div><div>I see the fancy ones are programmable with lots of settings. What does all of that do for you? I understand the trim and having saved settings for trim, range, and deadzone. I'm wondering about the other features and which ones are important or most usefull.</div><div></div><div>#3. What sensors are most important on a plane?</div><div></div><div>I'd like to integrate a few of the very most important ones right on the RX board. Battery voltage seems like the most important for electric and it would be logical for the RX to know how much power it has left even on gas models. Other sensors I can think of that might be good to have directly on the RX board would be current, RPM, and temp. Other sensors might be best for an additional autopilot or sensor board, but I'm curious what else might be important enough to have on the RX board. I'm trying to figure out exactly how to interface everything without putting too much unneeded stuff on the RX board or making the sensor units too complicated either. Mainly, what would you want if you just wanted to replace a standard setup, but could cheaply add a couple things that most people would want even if they didn't want to get too fancy.</div><div></div><div>#4. What are typical electronics payload weights for RC planes?</div><div></div><div>I know that covers everything from tiny little planes to huge scale planes, but I'm trying to get a feel for what is reasonable. I'm planning to start with an AirField RC 55" Sky Trainer v4 (http://www.nitroplanes.com/93a300-14...d-rtf-24g.html). I figure that plane can carry quite a bit and even has flaps. If anyone can guesstimate what that plane can carry it would be very helpfull. I'd also like to figure out what a more normal weight for smaller planes would be. The first version of my controller might be fairly large and I'm trying to figure out if I can/should throw in an extra battery (2x) for the motor and a separate one for the RX unit (total 3x, smaller batt. for RX though). I'd also like to throw in an android phone @ about 4.58 oz (130 g), for GPS logging.</div><div></div><div>#5. Are there any specific problems with larger antennas?</div><div></div><div>At 433 MHz, a quarter-wave antenna would be about 6.5 inches, half-wave 13 inches. Does a small rod this long pose any significant problems? There are plenty of shorter designs</div><div></div><div>#6. What ranges are people achieving with their controllers?</div><div></div><div>I'm curious about frequency vs mW power vs range. Posts on the OpenLRS forum suggest that 100mW @ 433 MHz should be able to get 1.5 miles (2500 meters) LOS on the ground. I've also seen that there are 1W 2.4g boosters out there. I'm trying to figure out if 100mW is going to be enough power of if I should integrate a RF amp chip on the TX board also. 1W sounds like a nice round number and is probably the most you can legally transmit in the US on the ISM band.</div><div></div><div>#7. How common is it to lose control of a plane due to signal loss, and what happens when it happens?</div><div></div><div>Curious how often this happens and what people do. Do you jump in a car and chase it down? Does that usually work or do planes just fly off into the sunset?</div><div></div><div></div><div>I realize there are legal issues with the FAA about operating out of visual range, and I'm not suggesting I plan to break these rules. But it seems like UAV regs are in flux and better cheap controllers could only make the FAA more likely to loosen regs in the future.</div>

Quite a list of questions about the subject, many different approaches to getting an airplane flying successfully. Don't know if you live close to where there is a Model r/c club, but that would be my first suggestion and find a person that could get you through the initial difficulties of learning to fly the airplane first. Wouldn't do you any good to do the fpv if the video system fails and your still in the training phase. Getting yourself a slow flying airplane with a big wing would be really beneficial to speeding up the learning curve until you're ready to move up. There is several r/c flight sims available to get you through this if no club is in the local area and for the cost of the sim, will save you twice the cost of replacing/repairing broken airplanes. It also might help you decide which model might be best for carrying the weight of the video equipment.

The other major suggestion is to keep it simple, trying to invent the radio controller all over again can get you creative but there is many reliable radios operating on the 2.4Ghz range since they are locked in by dual receivers and encoded to reduce interference to an absolute minimum. The 1W amp supplied for the 2.4Ghz with the right antenna can give up to over 6 miles of range. There is controllers out there that can be applied through the computer but almost way too much hassle.

Check out some of the companies that deal in FPV equipment and they've already done the hard work for you, found Rangevideo to have reliable products and the best service but there is many other companies that offer equipment to get you into the next phase of flying through the monitor. All I can say is don't overcomplicate the hobby, it's complicated enough without re-inventing the wheel, especially when most of the electronics sold today are getting cheaper and disposable.

<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium; "><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; padding-left: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: Arial, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">Thanks for the advice Scotty!  Sorry for the wall of text in my initial post.

Your advice is very good, and exactly what I plan to do.  I plan to get a big styrofoam plane (as mentioned in my inital post), with a high mounted wing.  It's generaly considered a trainer?  I guess it's got "sky trainer" in the name.

I plan to fly the hell out of sims until the plane comes, then go low and slow as I can until I learn the flying.  I probably won't take the thing out of my living room until I have a good feel for the control.

I plan to hook up with the local club if possible.  I just figured it would be a lot easier if I actually had a plane in hand that they could show me how to fly.  I'm not sure how active they are yet.  I'm getting a trainer &amp; controller and the whole nine yards.  I just want to figure out the next step as far as adding electronics to the package.</div></span>

You're absolutely welcome.

Just going into the subject from what i've seen alot of other people in your position, try to start with something way over the experience level and end up wasting alot of money. The sim should definitely get you prepped, just hope the club can help you out.

Start slow at first until the confidence kicks in, you'll have a blast when you start doing the aerobatics by yourself. Plus the foamie aircraft are easy to fix in the event of the inevitable crash.

It wasn't till about 5 years ago that i started tinkering around with a cheap fpv set up and was looking into what you were describing when i found some schematics for the video transmitter and receiver in a popular mechanics mag. Nowdays the equipment is tried and tested and makes it so easy to get the plane outfitted. Give it some time, you'll be doing touch n goes without even looking at the plane before you know it. I plan on giving my new equipment a full test when i get down to Ca in October, and using a big lofty stable airplane does make it easy to pack in all the gear and still have room throw in more.

Sounds like good advice. I did check into local groups and it seems there is an active one here. I should have checked a little sooner because I just missed the monthly meeting, but I'm sure I can email them and find out when they're flying.

Right now I'm waiting for my plane. I've been thinking up what I plan to do with it once I learn to fly properly. Since I have a decent amount of electronics and programming experience I'm interested in creating my own design in areas where I think I can try some new stuff compared to what's been done. Semiconductor companies are usually pretty good about supplying me with engineering samples, so I'll probably do plenty of tinkering around.

I figure I'll usually have my laptop around when I'm flying, so I though I might most easily run everything through the computer. Using a joystick seems easier than interfacing with a controller, but then again that's been done so it might not be too much work.

I'm certainly getting a standard cheap TX/RX controller system, so I won't be throwing a bunch of untested electronics into a new plane and then trying to learn to fly. It's just that there's so much design and programming work to be done before you can start testing, so I wanted to see what people thought about different options.

My big question is if there is any major reason NOT to try and control a plane with a standard computer joystick? And perhaps why the transmitter designs are the way that they are. I'm kind of guessing now that it's simply easier to use two sticks since you want to have the unit in your hand and there's no easy way to hold a joystick steady without using one hand on the base and the other on the stick, which kind of wastes one hand.


-Jake<br type="_moz" />

Flying with the joystick sounds like a cool idea. Wouldn't mind setting up something like that with an actual seat and monitor arrangement like some of the examples i've seen done with the Xplane or MS Flight sim 10. Would take a little getting used to knowing the plane is still at the mercy of a good signal. Spend some time to fully test any equipment before integrating into the plane. No reason not to test it, try it out on an r/c car if you've got one or similar at first. Worked out the bugs on mine that way and gave my son a workout by chasing him around the outside of the house while I was using a monitor in a closed garage.

As for the electronics design, quite excellent if you have a decent background in how to put together a system that works in all the details you're discussing previously, you might have a viable product down the line that might spark some interest in other fpv'ers. Keep the ideas alive, always room for innovation...

Check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHlyL...eature=related