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UAV Engines?

Old 10-19-2007, 10:27 AM
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djjones69
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Default UAV Engines?

Hey guys,

Firstly, awesome site all around. Learned so much already.

I'm currently involved in a project developing a UAV and need some info on top end RC engines. Looking at a MTOGW around 200lbs (91kg) which is pretty massive compared to what most of you guys are probably used to but thought I might as well put it out there. Any comments or suggestions would be great.

Cheers in advance

Dan
Old 10-19-2007, 12:29 PM
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gkamysz
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

First you need to figure out how much power you need to perform the mission.
Old 10-19-2007, 01:01 PM
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oldtimer2
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

Check out the RCV engine site in the UK, they have several engines that might interest you. They are working right now with honeywell for a UAV engine desinged to run on JP8 (kerosene)
Old 10-19-2007, 03:34 PM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

.
Old 10-19-2007, 10:57 PM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

We're using ZDZ160's with tuned pipes on a blended body design that has a maximum AUW of 80Kg.
Old 10-20-2007, 07:41 AM
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djjones69
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

Hey guys,

First off, thanks for the great replies already! I've had a chance know to do a bit more research and understand this whole area a little bit more. Quite a few of you seem very technically able so i've got a few specs below that you might be interested in;

The following message is taken from a communication between myself and a prospective engine manufacturer so take it with a pinch of salt;

The weight of the aircraft will be less than 300lb (136kg), more than likely nearer the 175 to 225lb range (80-100kg).

The most critical specification requirements appear to be;

 Ability to perform a 6 degree per second turn at 1700 and 3000ft.
 Ability to dash at 70kts (36m/s) at 1700 and 3000ft.
 The design cruise speed will be 50kts (26m/s)

Although the final aircraft and engine configuration has not been finalised it is likely to be a fixed wing conventional configuration;
• Thrust to weight of whole aircraft of 0.2 to 0.4 (N/(kg*g)). This equates to a thrust range of 157 to 393N. Obviously converting this to the more appropriate horsepower depends on quite a few factors that are probably best left to you.
• Wing loading will be in the range of 140 to 300 Pa which will result in a wing area in the range 3 to 7m2 and a wing span in the range 5.6 to 9m.

It would be useful to know the possibilities of having either one, two or three engines, i.e, single nose mounted engine, two wing mounted engines or two wing mounted engines with a single nose mounted engine. Also if you have any comments or suggestions on pusher configurations, it would be gratefully received.

• A further requirement that may be a problem is that we are looking at a range of 15nm and an endurance of 8hrs. Reliability is a very important part of our design so if you have any values for typical failure rates etc., that would be very useful.

• It would also be advantageous to be able to provide DC power via a generator/alternator from the engine(s) to our payload. The typical requirement will be in the range of 10W at 12V DC.

• I know very little about the types of engines you supply but any information on the possibility of using different fuel grades or pre-mixing techniques would be very useful. The possibility of using JP8 as a fuel would be an advantage. SFC or TSFC values would be useful.

• If you have figures for noise levels with and without mufflers (at 200 ft if possible) it would be very useful for our choice of engine.

• We have very tight schedules so if you have any CAD models or other miscellaneous information that you feel would be useful please forward this information.

• Finally, typical availability/lead times for the engines and typical delivery times would be useful as we hope to purchase suitable engine(s) relatively quickly.


Sorry if this seems like a bit like information overload but I felt it was better to give too much information than not enough. If you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact me any time.

Thank you in advance for you help.

With thanks,



Daniel Jones

Any comments on the above q's would be great. I know its a massive area
Old 10-20-2007, 07:22 PM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

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Old 10-21-2007, 04:37 AM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

Because some of our designs are bybrid (piston/jet) we have developed a combined brushless alternator/starter setup which uses a toothed-belt drive system. It is very lightweight and compact but is not without its drawbacks.
Old 10-23-2007, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

When a question like this pops up, ask yourself, who would want to know this stuff. Someone "involved in a project" would likely have these resources available to them if the project is legitimate. Call me overly paranoid but a plane this large could easily become a weapons platform, bio/chem delivery system, or a weapon itself.
Old 10-23-2007, 09:14 PM
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XJet
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Default RE: UAV Engines?


ORIGINAL: Mr67Stang

When a question like this pops up, ask yourself, who would want to know this stuff. Someone "involved in a project" would likely have these resources available to them if the project is legitimate. Call me overly paranoid but a plane this large could easily become a weapons platform, bio/chem delivery system, or a weapon itself.
So can a truck or a Cessna 172. Suicide bomber/pilots are cheaper than good guidance systems :-)
Old 10-23-2007, 10:27 PM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?


ORIGINAL: XJet


ORIGINAL: Mr67Stang

When a question like this pops up, ask yourself, who would want to know this stuff. Someone "involved in a project" would likely have these resources available to them if the project is legitimate. Call me overly paranoid but a plane this large could easily become a weapons platform, bio/chem delivery system, or a weapon itself.
So can a truck or a Cessna 172. Suicide bomber/pilots are cheaper than good guidance systems :-)
But a Truck or a Cessna means it would require a pilot/driver in the vehicle to the or near the point of impact. Much more apealing to strike without taking yourself out in the process one would think.
Old 10-26-2007, 03:46 PM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

PARANOIA EXTRAORDINAIRE comes to mind here.
Old 10-30-2007, 06:21 PM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

10 watts for 8 hours at 12 volts.. do some math... a lithium manganese battery might do the job?

A DA150 is prolly about 35 pounds of thrust using 1/2 gallon per hour.... with a good prop and at 10 feet... likely 95 to 100 Db.
Old 10-31-2007, 09:45 AM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

Hey Dan, I manufacture the engine your talking about, Its the Black Flame 280 Deluxe UAV version. Its on" RC Universe" under Engines and motors. How does 36 Horse Power, 200 lbs of thrust with the right prop, Extended crank at the rear for generaters, starters ect. The UAV version weighs in at 13.5 lbs. I have customers that use them for their PPGs, UAVs ect. Go to Starr-Racing.com for more Details. Did I say they are bullit proof, and easily the Rolex of all small engines?.......My contact info: 763 494 0767 or 612 709 9630 or" race44@hotmail.com" Give us a call, you will be glad you did, Best Regards.... Dick
Old 10-31-2007, 10:43 AM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?


ORIGINAL: DKjens

PARANOIA EXTRAORDINAIRE comes to mind here.
Precisely! If I were trying to stop fanatical attacks on US property, the last place I would look is at a bunch of guys playing with toy airplanes. Most of us would be the first to call the authorities if we saw anyone trying to use these things in a seemingly terrorist manner.

Later;

D.W.
Old 10-31-2007, 11:46 AM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

Terrorists measure their effectiveness not just in the number of people they kill.. but to the degree they mess up our lives!!!
Taken your shoes off at a good airport lately!!!
Old 10-31-2007, 12:32 PM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

uhm.....yeah......anyone wanna talk about engines instead?
Old 10-31-2007, 03:21 PM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

what specific fuel consumption do you need? A single motor for a prototype or are you trying to identify a powerplant for a production plane?
Old 11-02-2007, 02:46 PM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

You yanks should be more paranoid about the real terrorists - your government.

I find these threads very useful, but I am not in the business of making UAV's, but am considering setting up a UAV's service centre.

So to have this information in free discussion can only be good.

Thanks for the links to engine info, it is NOT easy to find engines with these specs unless you already know WHERE to look.
Old 11-03-2007, 08:45 AM
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race44
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

Hey mboland, There are others who think our country is a terrorist organization besides yourself. Let me share a few with you. First theres Sadam Hussien, Osama Binladan, The KKK, Muslum extremist and yourself just to name a few, looks like your in good company. You wont like this, but here goes anyway," GOD BLESS AMERICA"
Old 11-20-2007, 10:15 AM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?


ORIGINAL: mboland

You yanks should be more paranoid about the real terrorists - your government.

I find these threads very useful, but I am not in the business of making UAV's, but am considering setting up a UAV's service centre.

So to have this information in free discussion can only be good.

Thanks for the links to engine info, it is NOT easy to find engines with these specs unless you already know WHERE to look.
Hi all,

just check '' http://www.uavenginesltd.co.uk/index.php?id=396 '' one of the best engine that you will find..

most of the uav & drones fly with that one..
Oscar
Old 11-23-2007, 01:26 PM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

With you all the way !!!!!!!!!

Misterpanda [sm=thumbup.gif]
Old 12-03-2007, 10:14 AM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?


just check '' http://www.uavenginesltd.co.uk/index.php?id=396 '' one of the best engine that you will find..
most of the uav & drones fly with that one..
I see they list a 10hr to 50hr time between overhauls -- sounds pretty limited to me when I'm seeing UAVs up there for longer than that on a single flight...
But what really got my attention was the idea that MOST uav and drones (sic) fly with it. What percentage of vehicles of what size, speed, operating range, etc. are you referring to and where did the statistics originate?
Old 12-03-2007, 03:39 PM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?

"Most" uav's do not use that engine. Nice looking engine though.
Old 12-04-2007, 04:25 AM
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Default RE: UAV Engines?


ORIGINAL: mboland

You yanks should be more paranoid about the real terrorists - your government.

I find these threads very useful, but I am not in the business of making UAV's, but am considering setting up a UAV's service centre.

So to have this information in free discussion can only be good.

Thanks for the links to engine info, it is NOT easy to find engines with these specs unless you already know WHERE to look.

How about you quit with the insinuations, and keep it on topic....

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