Flight Mechanics data for UAV
08-04-2009 | 02:39 PM
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Flight Mechanics data for UAV
Does anyone know where I can find the "flight mechanics" data for any UAV. What I mean by flight mechanics is the moments, moment coefficients, and the typical dimensions(span,weight,thrust...etc). There typically in terms of M,N,P,Q,R...etc. I will be doing a simulation (probably in Simulink) for this UAV, for one of my professors. I don't have any preferences as to what UAV, I just need enough data for one.
Any help would be great.
Any help would be great.
08-06-2009 | 12:24 AM
#3
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RE: Flight Mechanics data for UAV
This kind of a post in a UAV forum is scary.
Read up on basic, stable model design. Those Harry Higley books at the LHS are a good place to start.
Andy Lennon has a great book about model design, also.
Take that a step further and build a Telemaster...build 2 while you're at it.
Master the basics first, the "wheel" has already been invented.
Read up on basic, stable model design. Those Harry Higley books at the LHS are a good place to start.
Andy Lennon has a great book about model design, also.
Take that a step further and build a Telemaster...build 2 while you're at it.
Master the basics first, the "wheel" has already been invented.
08-06-2009 | 01:53 PM
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RE: Flight Mechanics data for UAV
What do you mean by "scary"....
I wont be building a model due to the lack of time for this project.
I will be simulating the control response for various inputs by the control surfaces.
I know this has already been done. I've done it myself for piloted aircraft with the handling quality data made available to me by my professor. but he doesnt have any data for a UAV which is why he wants to do this simulation.
I came to the UAV forum because I know a few people here work with UAV companies that might have the data. which is probably proprietary info, but it doesnt hurt to ask.
I wont be building a model due to the lack of time for this project.
I will be simulating the control response for various inputs by the control surfaces.
I know this has already been done. I've done it myself for piloted aircraft with the handling quality data made available to me by my professor. but he doesnt have any data for a UAV which is why he wants to do this simulation.
I came to the UAV forum because I know a few people here work with UAV companies that might have the data. which is probably proprietary info, but it doesnt hurt to ask.
08-07-2009 | 12:10 AM
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RE: Flight Mechanics data for UAV
I think you should first learn to walk before you try to run. You should be an accomplished modeler and flyer before delving into this. Your original question speaks volumes to the contrary.
All it will take to get my hobby shutdown is to have some Bozo with a $200 ARF UAV crash into someone's windshield 10 miles down range.
What is there to learn here? How to assemble a bunch of pre-engineered Radio Shack components into a preassembled plane built with slave labor in China?
I'd be more impressed if you built your own rubberband powered free flight glider and went through the learning process to get it trimmed out.
That would be more of an accomplishment than gluing a bunch of plug & play stuff into an ARF.
All it will take to get my hobby shutdown is to have some Bozo with a $200 ARF UAV crash into someone's windshield 10 miles down range.
What is there to learn here? How to assemble a bunch of pre-engineered Radio Shack components into a preassembled plane built with slave labor in China?
I'd be more impressed if you built your own rubberband powered free flight glider and went through the learning process to get it trimmed out.
That would be more of an accomplishment than gluing a bunch of plug & play stuff into an ARF.
08-07-2009 | 06:10 AM
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RE: Flight Mechanics data for UAV
I already am an achomplished modeler. I've been building and flying for about 8 years including 3D planes.
I will be doing a COMPUTER SIMULATION. Im not building anything. so dont worry about me crashing into anything
I will be doing a COMPUTER SIMULATION. Im not building anything. so dont worry about me crashing into anything
08-07-2009 | 12:07 PM
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RE: Flight Mechanics data for UAV
ORIGINAL: forktail devil
I already am an achomplished modeler. I've been building and flying for about 8 years including 3D planes.
I will be doing a COMPUTER SIMULATION. Im not building anything. so dont worry about me crashing into anything
I already am an achomplished modeler. I've been building and flying for about 8 years including 3D planes.
I will be doing a COMPUTER SIMULATION. Im not building anything. so dont worry about me crashing into anything
http://www.airforce-technology.com/p...tor/specs.html
All you need are some decent 3-views to scale out the other dimensions and moments. I'll bet you can find those pretty easily.
3-views: http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/...your-own-hands
You're gonna have to do the cipherin' yourself!
08-07-2009 | 02:56 PM
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RE: Flight Mechanics data for UAV
I think i may have confused you guys when I say computer simulation. It is strictly a graphical representation of what is happening. I input some initial deflection angle of a control surface and it outputs a graph of the respnses.
an example of the data that im looking for is on page 613-617 of the book below. Stability Derivatives is what im looking for. but for a UAV
http://books.google.com/books?id=a_c...atives&f=false
an example of the data that im looking for is on page 613-617 of the book below. Stability Derivatives is what im looking for. but for a UAV
http://books.google.com/books?id=a_c...atives&f=false
08-21-2009 | 02:58 PM
#10
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RE: Flight Mechanics data for UAV
There's not a UAV maker I can think of that publishes the information you seek. Everything concerning UAV ops, design, manufacture, and flight equipment is goverend by the International Trade and Arms Regulations, under the Department of State, so anyone posting what you are looking for stands a very good chance of going to jail for quite some time.
Another factor is that you are posting on a forum wide open to world wide viewership, so nothing provided has any possible means of of reaching only your hands. In any case, any half assed engineer would be able to figure out the generalized info in fairly short order using sandard calcs combined with a few allowances for wing planform.
Another factor is that you are posting on a forum wide open to world wide viewership, so nothing provided has any possible means of of reaching only your hands. In any case, any half assed engineer would be able to figure out the generalized info in fairly short order using sandard calcs combined with a few allowances for wing planform.
12-15-2009 | 01:35 AM
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RE: Flight Mechanics data for UAV
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type" /><meta content="Word.Document" name="ProgId" /><meta content="Microsoft Word 11" name="Generator" /><meta content="Microsoft Word 11" name="Originator" /><link href="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\HP_ADM~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\cli p_filelist.xml" rel="File-List" /><![if gte mso 9]><xml><w:WordDocument><w:View>Normal</w:View><w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom><w:PunctuationKerning /><w:ValidateAgainstSchemas /><w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid><w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent><w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText><w:Compatibility><w:Br eakWrappedTables /><w:SnapToGridInCell /><w:WrapTextWithPunct /><w:UseAsianBreakRules /><w
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></o></p><p class="MsoNormal">I know exactly what the information is you are seeking and it is NOT restricted. The manufacturers do not publish this info but you can request it.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><o></o></p><p class="MsoNormal">For those others, if you don’t understand a request don’t reply, don’t sling negativity and insults to others, show some respect (do unto those as you would have them do unto you!)</p>
ontGrowAutofit /></w:Compatibility><w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetE xplorer4</w:BrowserLevel></w:WordDocument></xml><![endif]><![if gte mso 9]><xml><w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"></w:LatentStyles></xml><![endif]><style type="text/css"><! Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}@page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:35.4pt; mso-footer-margin:35.4pt; mso-paper-source:0;}div.Section1 {page:Section1;}></style><![if gte mso 10]><style> Style Definitions */table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style-parent:"";mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:#0400;mso-fareast-language:#0400;mso-bidi-language:#0400;}</style><![endif]><p class="MsoNormal">Why is it in this so called “modern world” so many people so many times fail to comprehend things and make mountains out of mole hills is still beyond me!</p><p class="MsoNormal"><o></o></p><p class="MsoNormal">I know exactly what the information is you are seeking and it is NOT restricted. The manufacturers do not publish this info but you can request it.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><o></o></p><p class="MsoNormal">For those others, if you don’t understand a request don’t reply, don’t sling negativity and insults to others, show some respect (do unto those as you would have them do unto you!)</p>
12-16-2009 | 10:51 PM
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RE: Flight Mechanics data for UAV
ORIGINAL: mhpilot
<meta content=''text/html; charset=utf-8'' http-equiv=''Content-Type'' /><meta content=''Word.Document'' name=''ProgId'' /><meta content=''Microsoft Word 11'' name=''Generator'' /><meta content=''Microsoft Word 11'' name=''Originator'' /><link href=''file:///C:\DOCUME~1\HP_ADM~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\cli p_filelist.xml'' rel=''File-List'' /><![if gte mso 9]><xml><w:WordDocument><w:View>Normal</w:View><w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom><w:PunctuationKerning /><w:ValidateAgainstSchemas /><w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid><w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent><w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText><w:Compatibility><w:Br eakWrappedTables /><w:SnapToGridInCell /><w:WrapTextWithPunct /><w:UseAsianBreakRules /><wontGrowAutofit /></w:Compatibility><w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetE xplorer4</w:BrowserLevel></w:WordDocument></xml><![endif]><![if gte mso 9]><xml><w:LatentStyles DefLockedState=''false'' LatentStyleCount=''156''></w:LatentStyles></xml><![endif]><style type=''text/css''><! Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:''''; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:''Times New Roman''; mso-fareast-font-family:''Times New Roman'';}@page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:35.4pt; mso-footer-margin:35.4pt; mso-paper-source:0;}div.Section1 {page:Section1;}></style><![if gte mso 10]><style> Style Definitions */table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:''Table Normal'';mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style-parent:'''';mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:''Times New Roman'';mso-ansi-language:#0400;mso-fareast-language:#0400;mso-bidi-language:#0400;}</style><![endif]><p class=''MsoNormal''>Why is it in this so called “modern world” so many people so many times fail to comprehend things and make mountains out of mole hills is still beyond me!</p><p class=''MsoNormal''><o> </o></p><p class=''MsoNormal''>I know exactly what the information is you are seeking and it is NOT restricted. The manufacturers do not publish this info but you can request it.</p><p class=''MsoNormal''><o> </o></p><p class=''MsoNormal''>For those others, if you don’t understand a request don’t reply, don’t sling negativity and insults to others, show some respect (do unto those as you would have them do unto you!)</p>
<meta content=''text/html; charset=utf-8'' http-equiv=''Content-Type'' /><meta content=''Word.Document'' name=''ProgId'' /><meta content=''Microsoft Word 11'' name=''Generator'' /><meta content=''Microsoft Word 11'' name=''Originator'' /><link href=''file:///C:\DOCUME~1\HP_ADM~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\cli p_filelist.xml'' rel=''File-List'' /><![if gte mso 9]><xml><w:WordDocument><w:View>Normal</w:View><w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom><w:PunctuationKerning /><w:ValidateAgainstSchemas /><w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid><w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent><w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText><w:Compatibility><w:Br eakWrappedTables /><w:SnapToGridInCell /><w:WrapTextWithPunct /><w:UseAsianBreakRules /><w
ontGrowAutofit /></w:Compatibility><w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetE xplorer4</w:BrowserLevel></w:WordDocument></xml><![endif]><![if gte mso 9]><xml><w:LatentStyles DefLockedState=''false'' LatentStyleCount=''156''></w:LatentStyles></xml><![endif]><style type=''text/css''><! Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:''''; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:''Times New Roman''; mso-fareast-font-family:''Times New Roman'';}@page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:35.4pt; mso-footer-margin:35.4pt; mso-paper-source:0;}div.Section1 {page:Section1;}></style><![if gte mso 10]><style> Style Definitions */table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:''Table Normal'';mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style-parent:'''';mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:''Times New Roman'';mso-ansi-language:#0400;mso-fareast-language:#0400;mso-bidi-language:#0400;}</style><![endif]><p class=''MsoNormal''>Why is it in this so called “modern world” so many people so many times fail to comprehend things and make mountains out of mole hills is still beyond me!</p><p class=''MsoNormal''><o> </o></p><p class=''MsoNormal''>I know exactly what the information is you are seeking and it is NOT restricted. The manufacturers do not publish this info but you can request it.</p><p class=''MsoNormal''><o> </o></p><p class=''MsoNormal''>For those others, if you don’t understand a request don’t reply, don’t sling negativity and insults to others, show some respect (do unto those as you would have them do unto you!)</p>
This is right on the money. He's looking for moments of inertia of a UAV, and combined with the stability and control derivatives he can simulate the aircraft dynamics. Here's a suggestion to the original poster. Since you are an accomplished modeler, why don't you get data for an R/C airplane that you have. You can measure the mass moments of inertia directly. You can get pretty good stability and control derivatives from AVL (free ware from Drela). The advantage to this is that you can see if your 6-dof matches your R/C airplane flight dynamics. Have fun!
02-11-2010 | 12:31 AM
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From: Niceville , FL
RE: Flight Mechanics data for UAV
I have a Mathcad / Simulink project you might be interested in. I developed a Aerosim (Simulink) simulation of a Electrifly spirit. It is a glider, but still in the UAV size range. PM me if you want details I may be able to help you get started.
It is probably best that you use either AVL or develop your own software for calculating these. Most of the Coeffs can be calculated without too much difficulty. The others can be measured from an accurate 3 View and some pictures. Takes a while but certainly do able. You will never see these coeffs posted for a production UAV. Way too many proprietary concerns.
It is probably best that you use either AVL or develop your own software for calculating these. Most of the Coeffs can be calculated without too much difficulty. The others can be measured from an accurate 3 View and some pictures. Takes a while but certainly do able. You will never see these coeffs posted for a production UAV. Way too many proprietary concerns.
