John Murdoch

My Feedback: (11)

I spent a couple of hours today trying to figure out the programming of a friend's new 12Z. Boy, not being a Futaba guy, I was dumbfounded. Is there a pre-printed program guide that would show, step-by-step, the programming of let's say, a giant scale aircraft with three servos in each wing, two servos in each elevator half and two servos for the rudder. I'd like to set it up with triple rates, independant expos, some differential, and just for the hell of it, throw in a couple of rudder/elevator and rudder/aileron mixes.

Again, not being savvy to Futaba, I was lost. I meandered through a couple of things but I'm not sure what we did was correct. Just trying to find out the meaning of condition reminded me of the song that said "just checked in to see what condition my condition was in".

Any help here would be tremendously appreciated...

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

While there isn't a book out, you may find the FAQ page useful:

http://www.futaba-rc.com/faq/faq-12z.html

With the number of servos you're talking about, you'll need a servo synchronizer for each wing, for each elevator half, and for the rudder. The transmitter doesn't have enough channels to put each servo on its own channel.

John Murdoch

My Feedback: (11)

Bax.. Thanks. I found that page earlier and yet it has some useful information, the basic programming is still mystical to me. It would behoove Futaba to come up with a better guide with examples of how to program for some of this stuff. I see the 9Z information page has a glossary, is there a glossary page for the 12Z as well?

negy1

hi i have programed two models into my z12 one on ailervators one on two ail servos only took two days geting better and faster good luck

MSBOB

My Feedback: (1)

I agree with the previous post. I am stuck, cannot seem to even get a basic program done. Trying to set up ail diff, dual rates, expo
etc.
Futaba needs to print a quick reference guide, with examples of basic airplane setups.

jfail1

My Feedback: (2)

The 12Z manual is a real joke. There is not a single real world programming example in the manual. There are no guidelines as to what each function is or how it operates except for very brief and grossly lacking descriptions in the back of the manual for a very few functions. For the cost of the product Futaba should step up to the line and hire someone to write a decent how-to guide. Futaba leaves the learning process entirely to the user when it could have been an enormous help in providing decent examples of achieving results with the radio. There should at least be a glossary of terms to help the user. What does AFR mean? I keep seeing references to AFR in the manual but no definition of what it means. Whatr are the so-called LD/RD volume knobs for?, page 12 of the manual says they are volume controls. I see where CD is indeed a volume control but I cannot find anything that describes the volume control functions of LD/RD? That's just one example.

I love the radio but I hate the manual, I have worked out a lot of the functions on my own but Futaba could have done much, much better on this manual, they owe it to the users who have spent a very significant amount of money for this product to issue an improved manual and put it on-line for purchasers of thier products. This is my first Futaba radio, I expected much, much better from Futaba.

MSBOB

My Feedback: (1)

I agree with your posr completely.

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

OK, we'll try to give some basics, but there's not a lot of space here. This will work for both the 14MZ and 12Z.

For an aerobatic airplane with two aileron servos, two elevator servos, one rudder, and one throttle servo. Larger planes with multiple servos on a single surface will need the MSA-1 Servo Synchronizer on that particular aileron's channel.

First, go into the Linkage menu and then select the "Model Select" option. Select the "New" option. You now get a screen to select the model type, wing type, and tail type. Select airplane in model type, 2-Aileron in wing type, and Ailevator in tail type. The frequency screen will show next. If the frequency of the transmitter and receiver don't match, then use this screen to make sure the receiver's on the same channel as the transmitter.

You now have the basics of the transmitter set up. If you go into the Linkage menu and then Function menu, you can see the amounts of throw that are set up on each channel, and the stick, switch, or knob that controls each channel. Flight controls will have trims assigned to them, too. When you have two channels operating a single function, like the elevators, then the second elevator channel will have NULL as the control and trim. YOU MUST LEAVE THEM THIS WAY. The transmitter automatically takes care of things.

Now, you can do your basic airplane setup. Get the controls centered and moving at their maximum throws by getting the mechanics right, first. Do not use the electronics. Use the sub-trim to center the controls once they're as close as you can get mechanically. Use the ATV function in the Linkage menu to get each channel's endpoints set. You should not have to change more than a few points of each to get the controls right.

You can then go into the model menu to set the AFR(dual rates) for the controls desired. When you set the dual rates for the elevators, only set them for Elevator. Don't worry about elevator2. It's taken care of by the transmitter. If you try to adjust the second elevator channel, its throw will not be correct. That's because the AFR travel on secondary channels is the set fraction of the master channel's travel. Same with ailerons. You set the AFR(dual rate) only on aileron and ignore aileron2. Remember, you set them up to have the proper throw amounts in the ATV functions.

For more than one servo on a single channel, your best bet is to use a servo synchronizer on that channel. That's because a model with as many servos as you're asking about will run out of channels. Even the 14 MZ will have some issues.

We hope this helps you out a bit. For more detailed setup information, there are some text files on the Futaba Flyers Club site. Also several model downloads. If you're not a member, North American purchasers can send an email to us and we'll be glad to send the registration forms.

Email: Futabaflyersclub (at) hobbico.com (remove the "at" and add the @ and re-space---spam blocking in effect)

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

To set Exponential and Dual rates, see:

http://www.futaba-rc.com/faq/faq-12z-q875.html

jfail1

My Feedback: (2)

What does AFR stand for?

rfaster

My Feedback: (1)

AFR is your high rate. I pissed and moaned like most everyone else about the instructions when I got one of the early 14MZ's --- but I have to admit the Faq's they posted have answered most of the Q's I had that I was not able to figure out. I find that once you have a real application, like programming your giant scale you quickly figure out what you need to figure out.



---------------------------------
From Futaba.com
Please explain dual rates, exponential, AFR and ATV and how they are related.
1. What is AFR? How is it different from ATV?

ATV is each individual servo's end point adjustment. ATV is specific to each individual servo, so adjusting the ATV to the aileron channel will not, for example, adjust the servo throw of the second aileron servo if you have flaperons set up. ATV is the 'master' control. That is to say, it takes priority over all other items. Therefore, adjusting ATV will affect anything else that is a percentage from that number, including rates, exponentials, and mixes.

AFR is essentially "primary rate" (or high rate) to go with the 'dual rate' (or low rate) function of the radio. This is what the 8U and 6X consider the first switch position in dual rate which most modelers use as their high rate. AFR is active until the dual rate is activated, and it belongs to each CONTROL or AXIS of the airplane. Therefore, adjusting AFR for ailerons in a model with flaperons will affect the throw of both servos.

Why set AFR instead of adjusting ATV? Easy. ATV is your end point for EVERYTHING the radio does....mixes, expos, everything. So if you have a low rate, mixes, etc, that you like, but you need a little more (or less) on high rate, adjusting ATV will mess up all that other work. AFR is your 'high rate' so adjust it to your liking.

2. How do I set Expos? Exponential is set independently for your 'high rate' (called AFR) and 'low rate' (called dual rate). So you have to go into AFR, set your high rate how you want it, then go to the NEXT screen to set exponential. This is your expo setting for when your dual (low) rate is not activated for that channel.

Now if you also want expo on your low rate, then go to dual rates, set up your low rate and its switch, and then set an expo here as well.

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

AFR stands for Adjustable Function Rate. You use it to adjust the FUNCTION, not the channel. When you have two channels for ailerons, for example, you use ATV (Adjustable Travel Volume) to adjust the servos so that each servo has the proper amount of movement and the same centering when you move the stick.

When you adjust AFR, you adjust the AILERON function (in this case)...so you'll adjust the rates BOTH servos will move with one adjustment. On the 14MZ and 12Z, once you have them set up, you only need to adjust Aileron. Leave Aileron2 at 100%. If you alter the percentage of the AFR for Aileron2, you'll change it that amount in relation to the amount set in Aileron...so then one aileron will have a different amount of travel than the other.

ATV affects the particular SERVO, and is for setup only.

AFR affects the FUNCTION, and is where you set up exponential, multiple rates, curves, and so on.

grcourtney

My Feedback: (1)

Bax

I have had no issues figuring out my 12Z to this point . Maybe just one of the few.


gary

hoverVT

My Feedback: (14)

or an aerobatic airplane with two aileron servos, two elevator servos, one rudder, and one throttle servo. Larger planes with multiple servos on a single surface will need the MSA-1 Servo Synchronizer on that particular aileron's channel.

BAX I thought the reason for the 12z was to get away from the MSA and I was just wondering why you have suggested one. I am waiting for my 12z right now and hope it was a good choice I have a 9C now and love it with very easy programming and it seems like the more I read on the 12Z people are not happy with it. Is there anyone that has converted and would like to comment, Thnaks Tony[8D]

charrua

My Feedback: (47)

yea I'm also looking into selling my 9ZWC II to get the 12Z but it looks like no many guys are happy with it out there,,, it seems to be a nice radio but I'm wondering if I just should stick to my 9Z!!!

John Murdoch

My Feedback: (11)

I sure see a lot of "Futaba Orange" people out there being sponsored by Futaba. Hopefully, one day, one of those guys will sit down and write an easy to follow programming guide as well as the benefits and comparrisons of the 12Z vs. the others.

jfail1

My Feedback: (2)

I really like my 12Z with the exception of the manual. As I have pointed out in a previous post on this thread (and seconded by others) the manual is devoid of any programming examples or real guidance. It simply states there are these functions/menus etc. available to the user and you are on your own to figure them out. At a rock bottom minimum there should be a glossary of terms. I am doing pretty fair so far in figuring things out but Futaba could and should have done much, much better on the manual. I had to ask on this thread for some help in some very fundamental questions that should have been covered in the manual. You may remember in an earlier post by me that AFR is not defined in the manual. The very much appreciated explanation of AFR by Mr. Baxter still does not clear it up completely but I will work through it (a glossary would probably explain it too). I asked about Volume controls LD/RD in an earlier post and those funcitions still have not been cleared up. The manual refers to them very, very briefly and that's it. They are called volume controls in the manual but do I really need three volume controls as indicated by the manual? Great radio, just be prepared to spend a lot of time figuring it out and do not rely on the manual. Many people on here have been a great help.

hoverVT

My Feedback: (14)

has anyone had problems with the 14 channel receiver and lockout and I notice that Futaba reccomends to exit the antenna out of the fuse as soon as possible and I was just wondering if everyone is doing this as I now have 9channel receeivers in all of my big stufff and all of the anntenaes ore inside the fusr with no probs. My 12z should be here today and I am just a little apprehensive to pull out the receivers and swap them Thanks Tony

negy1

used my g3 reciever entana inside fuse no problems fiberglass extra 300 180 stiger great radio

jayjayneri

The 12MZ is the best radio I have ever used. It is also much more user friendly the the 9Z series and even the 9C. It takes much less inputs to get to a particular feature/function. However, since it uses a totally new software system, it might take a little getting used to for some. Having said that, I was able to set up my Genesis 160 without reading the manual. I did have to refer to it a few times but everything seems logical to me once you know how it operates. I would never go back to my 9WCII again and have given my 9C to my 10 year old son. On both my Genesis and my Extreme Composite Astral XX, both using G3 receivers, the antennas are mounted inside the fuse with no issues whatsoever. The radio is also lighter than both the 9z and the 14MZ. No complaints whatsoever and highly recommend it to everyone.

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

I'm closing this thread. Please be aware that the Futaba Support Forum is for people to ask questions of the Futaba Support Representatives. It is not a discussion area. If you have a question, then please post it. Do not make a reply to other peoples' questions. If you have a follow-up question on the SAME TOPIC, you can add a post to an already-started thread. Please do not start a discussion.

Thank you.