Dle-20 Blew up....
01-31-2011, 04:26 PM
#26
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RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
ORIGINAL: jedijody
The DLE factory recommends and it is stated in ALL DLE factory manuals for ALL DLE engine models 30:1 fuel/oil ratio. However, except for the DLE20, all DLE engines purchased from VVRC (which I administer the warranty for), if a high quality synthetic or mineral oil is used, can be run at a leaner saturation but a good rule of thumb to follow for minimum oil content is 40:1 for mineral oils and 50:1 for synthetics. Personally I prefer 32:1 in all engines all the time forever,.. period.
The DLE20, due to it's small size, high loads for it size and the high RPM it's commonly run at must use a minimum of 4 ounces of oil to 1 gallon of gasoline (32:1).
I won't go into what I define as high quality oil again here except that it should be labeled for use solely in air cooled engines, be certified by the API TC, or TC+, and or meet JASO FC, FD requirements, and that Lawnboy and Amsoil are not fit for use in any DLE engine.
For the purpose of warranty no one can legally tell anyone what oil brand or type they must use, only the requirements the oil must meet and that failures due to lack of lubrication are not covered under warranty. Whether one purchases the engine from VVRC or anyone else, the end user, or anyone else viewing pictures of it on their computer, does not determine cause of failure or whether a failure will qualify for a warranty claim. For this reason I recommend that all end users consult with their selling dealer on questions of oil type and content if they are not willing to follow the DLE manual guidelines.
ORIGINAL: wjcalhoun
Jody: Just so I'm clear on the 32:1 ratio rec: the higher ratio is a function of the increased need for lubrication in the smaller displacement engine (20), right? Not necessary for the 55 or 30? Sorry for the slightly off topic post.
Jody: Just so I'm clear on the 32:1 ratio rec: the higher ratio is a function of the increased need for lubrication in the smaller displacement engine (20), right? Not necessary for the 55 or 30? Sorry for the slightly off topic post.
The DLE20, due to it's small size, high loads for it size and the high RPM it's commonly run at must use a minimum of 4 ounces of oil to 1 gallon of gasoline (32:1).
I won't go into what I define as high quality oil again here except that it should be labeled for use solely in air cooled engines, be certified by the API TC, or TC+, and or meet JASO FC, FD requirements, and that Lawnboy and Amsoil are not fit for use in any DLE engine.
For the purpose of warranty no one can legally tell anyone what oil brand or type they must use, only the requirements the oil must meet and that failures due to lack of lubrication are not covered under warranty. Whether one purchases the engine from VVRC or anyone else, the end user, or anyone else viewing pictures of it on their computer, does not determine cause of failure or whether a failure will qualify for a warranty claim. For this reason I recommend that all end users consult with their selling dealer on questions of oil type and content if they are not willing to follow the DLE manual guidelines.
so lawn boy ashless is not to be used for breakin? Not truly air cooled oil? I've been usiing this for about 2 gallons or so then red line sythetic on other brand engines as recommended. Red line seems great. So better off using Pennzoil air cooled for the first few gallons?
Thanks,
Gregg ( Gas N Go)
01-31-2011, 06:05 PM
#27
RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
There is no reason to use a different oil for break-in than you plan to use for the life of the engine....any engine.
Lawnboy is an ashless oil, in order to blend an ashless oil, most of the effective detergent package is left out, the result is a very dirty sludgy carbon residue left in the engine, it's not death for an engine but is definitely not the best protection.
The Hibbico manual lists Lawnboy as a recommended break-in oil along with other errors such asrecommending the useof soft mounts, deactivating the throttle return spring and the wrong ignition timing specification to name a few.
You should call them sometime and ask technical questions about your engine then let us all know how comfortable you feel about their level of product knowledge and overall experience with gas engines in general.
Lawnboy is an ashless oil, in order to blend an ashless oil, most of the effective detergent package is left out, the result is a very dirty sludgy carbon residue left in the engine, it's not death for an engine but is definitely not the best protection.
The Hibbico manual lists Lawnboy as a recommended break-in oil along with other errors such asrecommending the useof soft mounts, deactivating the throttle return spring and the wrong ignition timing specification to name a few.
You should call them sometime and ask technical questions about your engine then let us all know how comfortable you feel about their level of product knowledge and overall experience with gas engines in general.
01-31-2011, 07:03 PM
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RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
I'll just go with the red line at 32/1 and skip the ashless .Thanks for your time and insight on the ashless oil, as others have said to just use the redline from the start also. Now I know "why".
Gregg
Gregg
02-01-2011, 05:07 AM
#29
RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
Jody,
Do you believe this failure (if it is a fatigue type) can be the result of some persistent knocking (detonation) due to lack of cooling, lean mix or low octane gas?
Do you believe this failure (if it is a fatigue type) can be the result of some persistent knocking (detonation) due to lack of cooling, lean mix or low octane gas?
02-01-2011, 08:25 AM
#31
RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
I won't go into what I define as high quality oil again here except that it should be labeled for use solely in air cooled engines, be certified by the API TC, or TC+, and or meet JASO FC, FD requirements, and that Lawnboy and Amsoil are not fit for use in any DLE engine.
FB
02-01-2011, 09:16 AM
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RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
ORIGINAL: Lnewqban
Jody,
Do you believe this failure (if it is a fatigue type) can be the result of some persistent knocking (detonation) due to lack of cooling, lean mix or low octane gas?
Jody,
Do you believe this failure (if it is a fatigue type) can be the result of some persistent knocking (detonation) due to lack of cooling, lean mix or low octane gas?
02-01-2011, 09:19 AM
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RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
ORIGINAL: jedijody
The Hibbico manual lists Lawnboy as a recommended break-in oil along with other errors such asrecommending the useof soft mounts, deactivating the throttle return spring and the wrong ignition timing specification to name a few.
The Hibbico manual lists Lawnboy as a recommended break-in oil along with other errors such asrecommending the useof soft mounts, deactivating the throttle return spring and the wrong ignition timing specification to name a few.
02-04-2011, 01:47 AM
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RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
ORIGINAL: mpascual
What model of ignition comes with the engine ?
#1 , #3 or #4 ?
This is very important to set the timing on DLE engines.
Regards
What model of ignition comes with the engine ?
#1 , #3 or #4 ?
This is very important to set the timing on DLE engines.
Regards
02-04-2011, 03:11 PM
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RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
Hello guys, quick question, my flying buddy and I will be using 100LL aviation fuel in a DLE 30 and CCRC 26, what would be the best brand oil to use for these engines. Reason is these engines I see has some issues uncommon in the other engines we run, Sachs, 3W, Brison. Also for a 80 size engine I was looking at MLD and MT. Which is better of the two. I know one has crank issues not sure of the other. Thanks.
02-04-2011, 07:35 PM
#41
RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
Pennzoil 2cycle for Air cooled engines....at 30-1 ratio. There is no best. Just do not use oils that produce a lot of hard carbon........................
02-04-2011, 07:49 PM
#42
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RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
ORIGINAL: KoleDeRacer
Possible but probably not. You are much more likely to damage the piston first and the upper cylinder. You will see small little pitts in the combustion area as well as a damaged spark plug. In my engine there was none of this at all piston looked perfect and the cylinder still looked new.
ORIGINAL: Lnewqban
Jody,
Do you believe this failure (if it is a fatigue type) can be the result of some persistent knocking (detonation) due to lack of cooling, lean mix or low octane gas?
Jody,
Do you believe this failure (if it is a fatigue type) can be the result of some persistent knocking (detonation) due to lack of cooling, lean mix or low octane gas?
I disagree, especially with a very small gasser. To damage the piston requires severe detonation and a whole lot of heat. To break a crank, especially one of small diameter, only requires maintaining a mild stage of detonation for an extended period of time. Running at continuously elevated temperatures from poor cooling, combined with detonation from lean tuning, makes bad things happen even sooner. I've done all of these things deliberately to determine how much an engine can withsatnd, and for how long, before experiencing catastropic failure. Surprisingly, it didn't take very long compared to the amount of time an engine should be expected to last. Death betwen 20 and 40 hours in engines proven to last over 600 hours and still be fully functional.
DLE products are pretty good, but they aren't that good, so earlier failures in such conditions would not be surprising.
Pitting occurs with severe detonation. Mild detonation generally only blows the carbon off the top of a piston and a corner of the combustion chamber. In a new engine there may not yet be enough carbon for the uninitiated to make a determination. Technically we should be speaking of percentages of knock, but without the right tools it's impossible to measure. So various levels of detonation will have to do.
02-04-2011, 09:11 PM
#44
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RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
I didn't see any pictures of the piston dome or combustion chamber, and being an engine professional I have learned never to trust anybody. When it comes to free warranty work, everyone lies.
In any case, I've only related what I know can and will happen to an engine under certain conditions. I know those conditions are generated more often by new gas engine users than by any other group of people. Of course there are other reasons an engnie can self destruct, but those are generally rare unless there were design or structural defects present. Typically those conditions are potentially present with certain brands, and DLE is not one of them.
In any case, I've only related what I know can and will happen to an engine under certain conditions. I know those conditions are generated more often by new gas engine users than by any other group of people. Of course there are other reasons an engnie can self destruct, but those are generally rare unless there were design or structural defects present. Typically those conditions are potentially present with certain brands, and DLE is not one of them.
02-04-2011, 09:19 PM
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RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
I think the failure was more related to a prop strike earlier that day then anything. (Wild hogs and runways don't mix vary well) Anyway hope the parts will be here once the country melts.
02-04-2011, 11:51 PM
#47
RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
ORIGINAL: KoleDeRacer
I think the failure was more related to a prop strike earlier that day then anything. (Wild hogs and runways don't mix vary well) Anyway hope the parts will be here once the country melts.
I think the failure was more related to a prop strike earlier that day then anything. (Wild hogs and runways don't mix vary well) Anyway hope the parts will be here once the country melts.
02-05-2011, 05:11 AM
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RE: Dle-20 Blew up....
ORIGINAL: jedijody
But wild hogs and mashed potatoes do very nicely! [img][/img]
ORIGINAL: KoleDeRacer
I think the failure was more related to a prop strike earlier that day then anything. (Wild hogs and runways don't mix vary well) Anyway hope the parts will be here once the country melts.
I think the failure was more related to a prop strike earlier that day then anything. (Wild hogs and runways don't mix vary well) Anyway hope the parts will be here once the country melts.
