List of Chinese Engines
02-10-2011, 04:20 PM
#126
RE: List of Chinese Engines
dillhilfolk...your commet on reed valve engines<hr />One thing I learned from the get go is, reed valve engines suck as far as performance & integrity, which most of todays rear carb gasser motors are . Two of the rear carb gassers I purchased have different materials used for reeds, one steel ,the most comnon, & one a non metal material. ??
Why are reed valves the lesser type of fuel induction ? They limit rpm by "floating" at high rpms ( they never completly close or open) and eventually they wear out themselves or the mating surfaces; this is the best part, they will break & get sucked into the engine. Do you think our off shore friends take this into consideration (ha)
<hr />I disagree with that view. Most all modern motorcycles, snowmobiels...ect have went to Reed Valve induction. The really give max torque & power. Also the reeds do not go bad hardly ever in our RC engines like DLE....and others. The trouble with port only timed engines....to get max power you need a higher reving engine, without a broad torque band. Capt,n
Why are reed valves the lesser type of fuel induction ? They limit rpm by "floating" at high rpms ( they never completly close or open) and eventually they wear out themselves or the mating surfaces; this is the best part, they will break & get sucked into the engine. Do you think our off shore friends take this into consideration (ha)
<hr />I disagree with that view. Most all modern motorcycles, snowmobiels...ect have went to Reed Valve induction. The really give max torque & power. Also the reeds do not go bad hardly ever in our RC engines like DLE....and others. The trouble with port only timed engines....to get max power you need a higher reving engine, without a broad torque band. Capt,n
02-10-2011, 05:32 PM
#128
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
dillhilfolk...your commet on reed valve engines<hr />One thing I learned from the get go is, reed valve engines suck as far as performance & integrity, which most of todays rear carb gasser motors are . Two of the rear carb gassers I purchased have different materials used for reeds, one steel ,the most comnon, & one a non metal material. ??
Why are reed valves the lesser type of fuel induction ? They limit rpm by ''floating'' at high rpms ( they never completly close or open) and eventually they wear out themselves or the mating surfaces; this is the best part, they will break & get sucked into the engine. Do you think our off shore friends take this into consideration (ha)
<hr />I disagree with that view. Most all modern motorcycles, snowmobiels...ect have went to Reed Valve induction. The really give max torque & power. Also the reeds do not go bad hardly ever in our RC engines like DLE....and others. The trouble with port only timed engines....to get max power you need a higher reving engine, without a broad torque band. Capt,n
dillhilfolk...your commet on reed valve engines<hr />One thing I learned from the get go is, reed valve engines suck as far as performance & integrity, which most of todays rear carb gasser motors are . Two of the rear carb gassers I purchased have different materials used for reeds, one steel ,the most comnon, & one a non metal material. ??
Why are reed valves the lesser type of fuel induction ? They limit rpm by ''floating'' at high rpms ( they never completly close or open) and eventually they wear out themselves or the mating surfaces; this is the best part, they will break & get sucked into the engine. Do you think our off shore friends take this into consideration (ha)
<hr />I disagree with that view. Most all modern motorcycles, snowmobiels...ect have went to Reed Valve induction. The really give max torque & power. Also the reeds do not go bad hardly ever in our RC engines like DLE....and others. The trouble with port only timed engines....to get max power you need a higher reving engine, without a broad torque band. Capt,n
02-10-2011, 05:45 PM
#129
RE: List of Chinese Engines
I remember running go carts and using chain saws back in the late '50's and early '60's and if you over revved a engine, it would stress the reed valves and they would split or get a set in them where the engine would not start again. Sometimes you could turn the reeds over and get it to run again. If they were spit or cracked, you had to replace them. The reeds were made of steel shim stock in those days.
I have not seen this problem with the model airplane engines but I notice the high rpm boat engines do not have reeds but a rear rotary or drum valve.
I have not seen this problem with the model airplane engines but I notice the high rpm boat engines do not have reeds but a rear rotary or drum valve.
02-10-2011, 05:49 PM
#130
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
ORIGINAL: w8ye
I remember running go carts and using chain saws back in the late '50's and early '60's and if you over revved a engine, it would stress the reed valves and they would split or get a set in them where the engine would not start again. Sometimes you could turn the reeds over and get it to run again. If they were spit or cracked, you had to replace them. The reeds were made of steel shim stock in those days.
I have not seen this problem with the model airplane engines but I notice the high rpm boat engines do not have reeds but a rear rotary or drum valve.
I remember running go carts and using chain saws back in the late '50's and early '60's and if you over revved a engine, it would stress the reed valves and they would split or get a set in them where the engine would not start again. Sometimes you could turn the reeds over and get it to run again. If they were spit or cracked, you had to replace them. The reeds were made of steel shim stock in those days.
I have not seen this problem with the model airplane engines but I notice the high rpm boat engines do not have reeds but a rear rotary or drum valve.
02-10-2011, 06:12 PM
#131
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
Zulu,
I cannot dissagree w/ your logic. Since getting into giant scale elec several yrs back, I've had no problems w/ Hobby City mtrs, ESC's, servos-maybe I've been lucky but then I'm just a sport flyer , not looking for whiz bang. If these rear carb reed valve cheapees hold together to satisfy the majority, I'm all for it & maybe part of it. I only voiced my expirence w/ gassers to make visible some of the basics of the various types & thier design limitations. I'm sure the average flyer dosen't care about how the gas gets to the piston, as long as it gets there .
I cannot dissagree w/ your logic. Since getting into giant scale elec several yrs back, I've had no problems w/ Hobby City mtrs, ESC's, servos-maybe I've been lucky but then I'm just a sport flyer , not looking for whiz bang. If these rear carb reed valve cheapees hold together to satisfy the majority, I'm all for it & maybe part of it. I only voiced my expirence w/ gassers to make visible some of the basics of the various types & thier design limitations. I'm sure the average flyer dosen't care about how the gas gets to the piston, as long as it gets there .
02-11-2011, 08:39 AM
#132
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
The trouble with port only timed engines....to get max power you need a higher reving engine, without a broad torque band. Capt,n
The trouble with port only timed engines....to get max power you need a higher reving engine, without a broad torque band. Capt,n
Hey is that a Husky puppy you're holding in your RCU dossier ? Despite anything I've said, you are my hero ! Had to put our 15yr old down last yr-our last dog.
02-11-2011, 10:20 AM
#133
RE: List of Chinese Engines
ORIGINAL: dhillfolk
You are close about that but wouldn't call it a problem as it all depends on what you are looking for in an engine. Kinda like a Honda 600 XL single cyl stump puller I used to have verses one of thier hi reving CFR or VFR screamers. Totally different torque curve, but if I had my choice between reed valve verses port timed, well, you know. It's been many yrs since my dissapointing first encounter w/ reed valves & who knows, there may exist today a software program guaranteeing a 1000 hr reed valve design you can create & build for any application in any language.
Hey is that a Husky puppy you're holding in your RCU dossier ? Despite anything I've said, you are my hero ! Had to put our 15yr old down last yr-our last dog.
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
The trouble with port only timed engines....to get max power you need a higher reving engine, without a broad torque band. Capt,n
The trouble with port only timed engines....to get max power you need a higher reving engine, without a broad torque band. Capt,n
Hey is that a Husky puppy you're holding in your RCU dossier ? Despite anything I've said, you are my hero ! Had to put our 15yr old down last yr-our last dog.
02-11-2011, 10:46 AM
#134
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
Fiberglass reeds have a general maximum heat tolerance of about 90C. That's for the good ones. If the case is exceeding that the reeds can and will become damaged over time. The area where poor fitting or damaged reeds have the most impact is in the the lower 2/3 of the RPM range. Bad reeds make for very bad low end performance. Very hig rpm engines should not be using reeds for reasons already noted by others.
Another tid bit. People that like to use starting fluid on their engines will damage reeds more often than others. An ether start is the same as a dry start where oil is concerned. Early reed death is assured when using external starting fluids that do not contain oil.
Another tid bit. People that like to use starting fluid on their engines will damage reeds more often than others. An ether start is the same as a dry start where oil is concerned. Early reed death is assured when using external starting fluids that do not contain oil.
02-11-2011, 11:54 AM
#135
RE: List of Chinese Engines
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
Fiberglass reeds have a general maximum heat tolerance of about 90C. That's for the good ones. If the case is exceeding that the reeds can and will become damaged over time. The area where poor fitting or damaged reeds have the most impact is in the the lower 2/3 of the RPM range. Bad reeds make for very bad low end performance. Very hig rpm engines should not be using reeds for reasons already noted by others.
Another tid bit. People that like to use starting fluid on their engines will damage reeds more often than others. An ether start is the same as a dry start where oil is concerned. Early reed death is assured when using external starting fluids that do not contain oil.
Fiberglass reeds have a general maximum heat tolerance of about 90C. That's for the good ones. If the case is exceeding that the reeds can and will become damaged over time. The area where poor fitting or damaged reeds have the most impact is in the the lower 2/3 of the RPM range. Bad reeds make for very bad low end performance. Very hig rpm engines should not be using reeds for reasons already noted by others.
Another tid bit. People that like to use starting fluid on their engines will damage reeds more often than others. An ether start is the same as a dry start where oil is concerned. Early reed death is assured when using external starting fluids that do not contain oil.
That's good to know. How about the fuel stabilizers like STABIL? Any impact on reed valves from that? Or conversely, not using STABIL and the fuel gets old and gels in the carb and reed valve? (totally not my area of knowledge, just curious)
02-11-2011, 06:53 PM
#136
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
Another comment on reed valve induction: Almost all carburated two stroke outboard motors have used reeds, which almost never fail after even more than fifty years in service. The motors (the good designs) have loads of torque and excellent power. I have never thought of reeds as a problem area at all. My family owned a boat business for many years. The only reeds I can recall replacing were those owners messed with and damaged the reed boxes and/or stops or they bent/broke reed petals. The reeds were probably the least troublesome part of the motors we serviced.
02-11-2011, 07:54 PM
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
ORIGINAL: hsukaria
[T.O.M.
That's good to know. How about the fuel stabilizers like STABIL? Any impact on reed valves from that? Or conversely, not using STABIL and the fuel gets old and gels in the carb and reed valve? (totally not my area of knowledge, just curious)
[T.O.M.
That's good to know. How about the fuel stabilizers like STABIL? Any impact on reed valves from that? Or conversely, not using STABIL and the fuel gets old and gels in the carb and reed valve? (totally not my area of knowledge, just curious)
02-12-2011, 07:00 AM
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
ORIGINAL: WildeOne
Another comment on reed valve induction: Almost all carburated two stroke outboard motors have used reeds, which almost never fail after even more than fifty years in service. The motors (the good designs) have loads of torque and excellent power. I have never thought of reeds as a problem area at all. My family owned a boat business for many years. The only reeds I can recall replacing were those owners messed with and damaged the reed boxes and/or stops or they bent/broke reed petals. The reeds were probably the least troublesome part of the motors we serviced.
Another comment on reed valve induction: Almost all carburated two stroke outboard motors have used reeds, which almost never fail after even more than fifty years in service. The motors (the good designs) have loads of torque and excellent power. I have never thought of reeds as a problem area at all. My family owned a boat business for many years. The only reeds I can recall replacing were those owners messed with and damaged the reed boxes and/or stops or they bent/broke reed petals. The reeds were probably the least troublesome part of the motors we serviced.
I'm enjoying this input from all spectrums of 2 stroke fuel induction as it's lifting my confidence in todays reed valves & these Chinese motors.
02-12-2011, 08:09 AM
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
Bob, I tell you what, there are some really good Chinese-manufactured engines, and there's also a lot of boat anchors, too. The DLE engines are as good as any made anywhere else in the world. For the price, they are hard to beat.
02-12-2011, 08:37 AM
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
ORIGINAL: Woody218-RCU
Bob, I tell you what, there are some really good Chinese-manufactured engines, and there's also a lot of boat anchors, too. The DLE engines are as good as any made anywhere else in the world. For the price, they are hard to beat.
Bob, I tell you what, there are some really good Chinese-manufactured engines, and there's also a lot of boat anchors, too. The DLE engines are as good as any made anywhere else in the world. For the price, they are hard to beat.
For what it's worth, the three motors I recently bought are a new 26cc SV 26 ($163 to my door); a 26cc RCGF used but like new; & the 26cc Evolution, used, not sure where that's made.
I found a simple way to get a few more RPM's from the reed valve motors was to flare out the plastic carb block opening where it inducts to the reeds. There is plenty of mat'l there to flare & provide a much better flow transition to all of the reed area. I used a Dremel w/ the 1/2" dia sanding disc @ low speed then polished w/ 320 sand paper-took about 20 min.
02-12-2011, 08:44 AM
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
ORIGINAL: dhillfolk
For what it's worth, the three motors I recently bought are a new 26cc SV 26 ($163 to my door); a 26cc RCGF used but like new; & the 26cc Evolution, used, not sure where that's made.
I found a simple way to get a few more RPM's from the reed valve motors was to flare out the plastic carb block opening where it inducts to the reeds. There is plenty of mat'l there to flare & provide a much better flow transition to all of the reed area. I used a Dremel w/ the 1/2'' dia sanding disc @ low speed then polished w/ 320 sand paper-took about 20 min.
ORIGINAL: Woody218-RCU
Bob, I tell you what, there are some really good Chinese-manufactured engines, and there's also a lot of boat anchors, too. The DLE engines are as good as any made anywhere else in the world. For the price, they are hard to beat.
Bob, I tell you what, there are some really good Chinese-manufactured engines, and there's also a lot of boat anchors, too. The DLE engines are as good as any made anywhere else in the world. For the price, they are hard to beat.
For what it's worth, the three motors I recently bought are a new 26cc SV 26 ($163 to my door); a 26cc RCGF used but like new; & the 26cc Evolution, used, not sure where that's made.
I found a simple way to get a few more RPM's from the reed valve motors was to flare out the plastic carb block opening where it inducts to the reeds. There is plenty of mat'l there to flare & provide a much better flow transition to all of the reed area. I used a Dremel w/ the 1/2'' dia sanding disc @ low speed then polished w/ 320 sand paper-took about 20 min.
The Evolution engines are made by MVVS. Used to be made in the Czech Republic, for all I know they're made in China now, too.
02-12-2011, 08:58 AM
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
ORIGINAL: Woody218-RCU
Man, I used to do the same with my motocross bikes with reed valves! [8D] That, and lightly clean up the intake and transfer ports, and polish the exhaust port until it looked like a mirror inside. Every little bit helps!
The Evolution engines are made by MVVS. Used to be made in the Czech Republic, for all I know they're made in China now, too.
ORIGINAL: dhillfolk
For what it's worth, the three motors I recently bought are a new 26cc SV 26 ($163 to my door); a 26cc RCGF used but like new; & the 26cc Evolution, used, not sure where that's made.
I found a simple way to get a few more RPM's from the reed valve motors was to flare out the plastic carb block opening where it inducts to the reeds. There is plenty of mat'l there to flare & provide a much better flow transition to all of the reed area. I used a Dremel w/ the 1/2'' dia sanding disc @ low speed then polished w/ 320 sand paper-took about 20 min.
ORIGINAL: Woody218-RCU
Bob, I tell you what, there are some really good Chinese-manufactured engines, and there's also a lot of boat anchors, too. The DLE engines are as good as any made anywhere else in the world. For the price, they are hard to beat.
Bob, I tell you what, there are some really good Chinese-manufactured engines, and there's also a lot of boat anchors, too. The DLE engines are as good as any made anywhere else in the world. For the price, they are hard to beat.
For what it's worth, the three motors I recently bought are a new 26cc SV 26 ($163 to my door); a 26cc RCGF used but like new; & the 26cc Evolution, used, not sure where that's made.
I found a simple way to get a few more RPM's from the reed valve motors was to flare out the plastic carb block opening where it inducts to the reeds. There is plenty of mat'l there to flare & provide a much better flow transition to all of the reed area. I used a Dremel w/ the 1/2'' dia sanding disc @ low speed then polished w/ 320 sand paper-took about 20 min.
The Evolution engines are made by MVVS. Used to be made in the Czech Republic, for all I know they're made in China now, too.
02-12-2011, 09:07 AM
#143
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
Bob, on piston-ported motorcycle engines, we would cut about 1/8" off the bottom of the piston skirt facing the intake side, or lower the intake port in the cylinder, and then we'd raise the exhaust port. We'd also use JB Weld to glue the correct size dowel into the lower end hollow crankpin. With a tuned pipe, those engines would come alive like they'd been shot out of a slingshot. It narrowed the power band, but it sure made for fun when the engine got into the power band!
02-12-2011, 10:01 AM
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
ORIGINAL: Woody218-RCU
Bob, on piston-ported motorcycle engines, we would cut about 1/8'' off the bottom of the piston skirt facing the intake side, or lower the intake port in the cylinder, and then we'd raise the exhaust port. We'd also use JB Weld to glue the correct size dowel into the lower end hollow crankpin. With a tuned pipe, those engines would come alive like they'd been shot out of a slingshot. It narrowed the power band, but it sure made for fun when the engine got into the power band!
Bob, on piston-ported motorcycle engines, we would cut about 1/8'' off the bottom of the piston skirt facing the intake side, or lower the intake port in the cylinder, and then we'd raise the exhaust port. We'd also use JB Weld to glue the correct size dowel into the lower end hollow crankpin. With a tuned pipe, those engines would come alive like they'd been shot out of a slingshot. It narrowed the power band, but it sure made for fun when the engine got into the power band!
Expanding the performance of any stock motor & its basic componentry can be a rewarding adventure until you tread on the inherent design limits of those components & then of course it's only a matter of time. Ah, but what fun it was to hear a pair of twin cart two strokes tweaked to thier maximum screaming down a straightaway !
02-12-2011, 10:02 AM
#145
RE: List of Chinese Engines
ORIGINAL: Woody218-RCU
Man, I used to do the same with my motocross bikes with reed valves! [8D] That, and lightly clean up the intake and transfer ports, and polish the exhaust port until it looked like a mirror inside. Every little bit helps!
The Evolution engines are made by MVVS. Used to be made in the Czech Republic, for all I know they're made in China now, too.
ORIGINAL: dhillfolk
For what it's worth, the three motors I recently bought are a new 26cc SV 26 ($163 to my door); a 26cc RCGF used but like new; & the 26cc Evolution, used, not sure where that's made.
I found a simple way to get a few more RPM's from the reed valve motors was to flare out the plastic carb block opening where it inducts to the reeds. There is plenty of mat'l there to flare & provide a much better flow transition to all of the reed area. I used a Dremel w/ the 1/2'' dia sanding disc @ low speed then polished w/ 320 sand paper-took about 20 min.
ORIGINAL: Woody218-RCU
Bob, I tell you what, there are some really good Chinese-manufactured engines, and there's also a lot of boat anchors, too. The DLE engines are as good as any made anywhere else in the world. For the price, they are hard to beat.
Bob, I tell you what, there are some really good Chinese-manufactured engines, and there's also a lot of boat anchors, too. The DLE engines are as good as any made anywhere else in the world. For the price, they are hard to beat.
For what it's worth, the three motors I recently bought are a new 26cc SV 26 ($163 to my door); a 26cc RCGF used but like new; & the 26cc Evolution, used, not sure where that's made.
I found a simple way to get a few more RPM's from the reed valve motors was to flare out the plastic carb block opening where it inducts to the reeds. There is plenty of mat'l there to flare & provide a much better flow transition to all of the reed area. I used a Dremel w/ the 1/2'' dia sanding disc @ low speed then polished w/ 320 sand paper-took about 20 min.
The Evolution engines are made by MVVS. Used to be made in the Czech Republic, for all I know they're made in China now, too.
02-12-2011, 10:10 AM
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
I know all about flow testing. I know that one of my best friends does porting on Harley-Davidson motorcycle heads, and I do know that having the cleanest possible exhaust port is vital for getting the combustion gases out of the cylinder when the exhaust valve opens. I have witnessed flow bench testing on various H-D heads, the ones that flow the best have exhaust porting you could see yourself in. Intake's a different story, you want enough turbulence to keep the fuel in suspension with the airflow.
02-12-2011, 10:20 AM
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
[/quote]
Guess you should share what you know about flow testing, IE the friction coefficient of air & fluids ?
02-12-2011, 01:41 PM
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RE: List of Chinese Engines
This is very interesting, remind me of the Mazda rotary racing days when I was a kid. Some pics please of work done on these Chinese engines would be nice.