That is AWESOME! Man...I hope you make a FORTUNE off this.
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Yeah right - At the markups that modellers are generally willing to pay, the Chinese Penchant for "implementing" other peoples good ideas into their own products and the cost of legally protecting ones design against copying - The OP would be lucky to make much more than a basic wage for 6 months (which is about how long it would take for the low priced copies to appear).

It is a great concept and I do wish you well Umran. You could easily expand the concept to be a "Starter Generator" also and then you will have a greater potential market such as long flying time planes like UAV's.

I didn't predict he would, merely hoped for it.  <div>
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On that note, no i don't think so..... Steve is absolutely right.

About broader application such as UAV usage for long duration flights, yes that is in my agenda. At this moment this system is only oneway rotating system, i.e. it disengages once the engine started. To make it powering an alternator, then need to design another branch, as off now to counter rotate the motor, the system will rob a lot of it's engine power! (4 step down stages to overcome)

That will be quite sometime later, but now my agenda is to work on single 50cc series engine...

Awesome ideal and a neat approach to the design.

Does the electric motor disengauge after starting and is there any top RPM loss?

Please give us an ideal of what you consider expensive.

Yes, the start drive will disengage once the engine started.

Yes a very miniscule amount of clutch bearing negative friction needed to be overcome by the engine. Something like 0.02% losses.

When you shutdown, the engine compression load will reverse drive the system whenever the prop reaches close to TDC- it shows the fluidity of the system.

As of today, many local fliers who came to see the system operating, can't seems to close their mouth while awing.

This cost listed here if i get it machined,

1. Gears x 6 total = USD133
2. Shafts = USD34
3. Shaft brass bushings x 4 = USD40
3. 6061 brackets x 2 = USD92
4. Bearings(high-ends) x 6 = USD48
5. Engine Mods = USD70
6. Special stand-offs x 4 = USD40
7. Motor + ESC = USD80
8. RCEXL ign switch = USD20

The sleepless nights thinking, calculating and producing engineering and 3D drawings are not included in that list...

Looking at it, gee... USD557 almost the cost of the engine itself! But please remember this is a single production, imagine if it is mass produced...

I can understand that but look at all the bragging rights you get. LOL

You have really did a good job on it and if you could get it massed produced you might could make some good $ on it.

Could you tell or show us what modications you had to make to the engine to install it.


I would love to have one of them on a 35% aerobatic plane, I am not into 3D so a little extra weight would not matter to me.

Milton

Hehehe bragging rights... not having the luxury of time for that...

To much love being poured onto this hobby even at times my Mrs felt as if she's being left out... oh boy...

Anyway for fliers who were asking about the release of the system while the engine is running, i shoot this video.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1-lsyfi3o0[/youtube]


And for that it has completed 127 start cycle without any signs of wear on those gears and the rest of it's equipment.

Very nice work!

Out of curiosity, is it catastrophic if you accidentally bump the engagement switch on the transmitter while the engine is running?

A very good question!

Nothing will happen because i designed the starter system to rotate only at 10% of the engine idle rpm.

It will rotate at the same direction as the engine rotation but at slower speed, thus it does not interfere with the engine operation.

I once left the starter running for a few more seconds after the engine started and idling, just to monitor the effect... it continues to run without any adverse effect.

Very, very nice set up. I have been installing starters on my Quadra and Zenoah engines for years. About anything with a rear shaft can be fit with a starter. I currently have a Ziroli Skyraider powered with a G62 with my starter installed and operating very well. There is nothing better that setting the choke, cranking the engine until it pops, opening the choke, hit the starter and she fires up. And yes I have restarted one of my engines in flight.

What you have done takes the process to a whole new level by machining and installing a starter on the DLE111 (no rear shaft). Watching the video, I assume you are using a Torington Clutch bearing on the main engine shaft that allows the starter gear to engage the engine and then release when the engine starts. The backlash you hear when the engine is shut down is the engine driving the gear train backwards. This happens with my starters and you are right, there is no damage to the system. I like the use of the outrunner motor to drive the system. Much more efficent!

I hope you continue to develop the starter and make it available for sale. I would buy one right now for my DLE111 powered 1/3 scale Bird Dog.

this is so good for the guys who bump their servo choke while in the air (up high) ops take the choke off and start that beast back up[8D]

I was flying my Sig Spacewalker on a Quadra 40 with the starter. I came out of a stall turn with the idle trim too low. The engine had died and was headed down wind and low. I was getting ready to look for a reasonably smooth place to land when my caller said "Why don't you try a restart". I bumped the throttle up a couple of clicks and hit the starter. She fired right up and I finished the flight. Talk about bragging rights!!!

The down side of these set ups have always been the added weight. My system still uses heavy car motors and 10 cell Nicads. With aluminum gears, the new outrunner motors, and Lipoly batteries you can shave a lot of weight off of the setup. Umran is headed in the right direction on this starter!

I want one!!!

Excellent work!!!
I really like the concept.

There have been some moves towards onboard starters from some major manufacturer's lately. This is one

gsmith6879
now that was sweet!


yeah i am loving this starter as i am me and my wife are known as geeget and gadget. talk about doing a blender and losing this motor

apalsson

that is sweet what does that one cost?

weight is not an issue to most of us non key key type lol or once u rip out the landing gear.......

Hi all,
This particular design was handed over to DLE for their discretion, I can't say for sure whether they'll produce it for the masses, but one thing for sure they are working on UAV class engines of 215cc and 430cc complete with starter and alternator system. But what ever it is, the DLE 111cc Auto Start system design is their proprietary now.

As for me, the design work on the 50cc single with full integration with auto start system is progressing smoothly, while looking forward to getting my hands on the 170cc twin start system.

There are request for MOKI 5 cyc radial start system, i do not own that engine, a bit difficult to start designing without things in hand, unless a full technical drawing of the engine mechanical is available.

bad to the bone[8D]

I can't imagine a small 5 cyl. 4 stroke with a starter too. That would be the ultimate.........

Frankly speaking i don't quite catch what your real meaning is...



Yup, that'll be very good indeed. Those 'warbird' people will love it! The only problem that i can see is the additional weight. Bigger engine, yes you still add some weight but the actual fraction of it is still small compared to the weight of the engine. With smaller engine however the additional weight maybe close to half of the weight of the engine itself if not higher...

But in the end you'll never know because latest alloy material properties, one can get a very strong system without sacrificing weight. For example to reduce weight while maintaining strength and durability, the final drive gear maybe made of titanium? And i believe everyone here knows the cost of that material...

Whatever it is, i love engineering challenges. The more difficult the problem is, the higher the drive to get it solved. I read somewhere in this engine forum who were asking to the rest of the community for ideas on developing 2 stroke engine with 50HP rating, many of the responses that were posted read something like "why go thru all the trouble when you can get it of the shelves?". I said to myself, "too bad...". We all should be more supportive towards this kind of initiatives, it breaks the box which compounded our typical way of thinking, and who knows that guy could come out with something brilliant?

Gents,
I haven't got enough time to update this thread...

This 100cc class start system like i mentioned before is the property of DLE Engines. Working on DLE 170cc start system now... But just to update some scale fliers, the single cylinder 55cc class engine with built in start system is already going for prototype production.

First is RS55 model. RS stands for Remote Start. The static photo and video of the 3D rotation will provide some insights of the engine. The Installation dimensioning is as per current typical 50cc class engine. The overall volume space that it'll be taking is not that much different also.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6LGY8GUtrE[/youtube]

While the second one(which is still on my drawing board) is RS60T. Some fuel transfer calculation still hanging... But whatever it is, it'll be the engine with built in start system. No more flipping those props! And since it is purpose built for start system, additional weight from add on structure which may come from aftermarket start system is basically nil!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6VehFOoO7U[/youtube]

When it comes to actual production, i can get it cheap by sub-contracting it to many low labor cost countries but in doing so, the design will be copied as soon as the first production engine went into the market. Therefore we will manufacture it in house i.e. in Malaysia with strict ISO 9000 certified company. This will ensure only high quality casting parts are made into actual engines thus ensuring the overall quality at the highest standard.

Very nice.

But someone will just buy one and try to copy it, Probably not be as well built as yours.

Milton

[quote]ORIGINAL: Umran


Frankly speaking i don't quite catch what your real meaning is...






[quote]ORIGINAL: Umran

That means something really good.

ha ha i see.... seriously i don't know about it...

Yup you're absolutely right... but one have to live with it..

I will buy a RS60T when you get your production going. Currently, I have more single 50cc's than I can use. A twin makes less shake and I like that.

Question: why not 70cc? I am sure that you have run some calculations to determine the tradeoff between power and weight. Is it your goal to achieve the same power to weight of a good 55cc in a twin? more or less?