DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
06-07-2011, 04:16 AM
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RE: DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
the best 60 cc twin has been available for quite a while. Look on the 3 w ebsite. 55 cc, worlds strongest small twin. Be prepered to spend some money, butyou really do get what you pay for...
Cheapskates need not apply[>:]
Cheapskates need not apply[>:]
06-07-2011, 09:09 AM
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RE: DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
The fellow that designed the remote start for a DLE111 indicated that DLE was coming out with a 60RS (remote start) . The thread is around here somewhere ..................
06-07-2011, 11:08 AM
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RE: DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace
It is not always about power. It is nice to have a smooth running engine. Also weight is not an issue with many scale aircraft. The objective is not always to hover.
It is not always about power. It is nice to have a smooth running engine. Also weight is not an issue with many scale aircraft. The objective is not always to hover.
06-07-2011, 11:24 AM
#13
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RE: DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
The problem is not the availability of a 50-60cc twin. The problem is they cost more than people want to pay. I can't afford it is not a reason to not purchase one, and to blame cheap engine manufacturers for not making a product that will have low sales volume is even worse. You want a 60cc twin. 3w 56 and never look back. Wait a bit and you might run into a 68cc twin. That's just a maybe because it may not get released to the public to prevent copying.
You want a twin? Step up to the plate. Your option is to sit in the bleachers (cheap seats of course) and watch the players enjoy the game. For the whiners, please don't respond with how the prime makers are locking eveyone out of the game because the price is too high. If the price is too high for you it's a game you don't yet deserve to be playing. Save your loose change until you CAN afford one.
What most of you don't realize is that your hopes and plans of bigger and better engines at a cheap price is coming to an end soon. The primes that do and did all the R&D for new developments aren't listening to you (the modeler) anymore because all their work was stolen by people that are selling below their manufacturing cost. They are now focused on people that will continue to put food on THIER table and if some of that focus happens to trickle down to RC, so be it. It won't be intentional. So the available resources to copy is drying up. Who will the Chinese steal from then? I think I already know and you poor RC folks might find you fell out of favor. How do I know? Because I meet with people that make decisions.
They certainly don't execute any of their own research. That would require hiring and paying someone with creditable experience.
You want a twin? Step up to the plate. Your option is to sit in the bleachers (cheap seats of course) and watch the players enjoy the game. For the whiners, please don't respond with how the prime makers are locking eveyone out of the game because the price is too high. If the price is too high for you it's a game you don't yet deserve to be playing. Save your loose change until you CAN afford one.
What most of you don't realize is that your hopes and plans of bigger and better engines at a cheap price is coming to an end soon. The primes that do and did all the R&D for new developments aren't listening to you (the modeler) anymore because all their work was stolen by people that are selling below their manufacturing cost. They are now focused on people that will continue to put food on THIER table and if some of that focus happens to trickle down to RC, so be it. It won't be intentional. So the available resources to copy is drying up. Who will the Chinese steal from then? I think I already know and you poor RC folks might find you fell out of favor. How do I know? Because I meet with people that make decisions.
They certainly don't execute any of their own research. That would require hiring and paying someone with creditable experience.
06-07-2011, 12:05 PM
#14
RE: DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
Actually, I did not know 3W made a twin in this size. I hope your cheap comments are not directed at me. I have been happy with my DL-DLE products and thought I saw a trend coming with all of the twins they have already produced. The "sitting in the cheap seats" comment could hold just as much water with the 111cc size engine.
I could care less about all of that political stuff really. I was just wondering if the trend that DLE has with making twins out of all of the other displacement will continue with the 30cc and the 20cc. I personally hope so. For those that are not interested, I guess they can change the channel.
I could care less about all of that political stuff really. I was just wondering if the trend that DLE has with making twins out of all of the other displacement will continue with the 30cc and the 20cc. I personally hope so. For those that are not interested, I guess they can change the channel.
06-07-2011, 01:13 PM
#15
RE: DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
The problem is not the availability of a 50-60cc twin. The problem is they cost more than people want to pay. I can't afford it is not a reason to not purchase one, and to blame cheap engine manufacturers for not making a product that will have low sales volume is even worse. You want a 60cc tein. 3w 56 and never look back. Wait a bit and you might run into a 68cc twin. That's just a maybe because it may not get released to the public to prevent copying.
You want a twin? Step up to the plate. Your option is to sit in the bleachers (cheap seats of course) and watch the players enjoy the game. For the whiners, please don't respond with how the prime makers are locking eveyone out of the game because the price is too high. If the price is too high for you it's a game you don't yet deserve to be playing. Save your loose change until you CAN afford one.
What most of you don't realize is that your hopes and plans of bigger and better engines at a cheap price is coming to an end soon. The primes that do and did all the R&D for new developments aren't listening to you (the modeler) anymore because all their work was stolen by people that are selling below their manufacturing cost. They are now focused on people that will continue to put food on THIER table and if some of that focus happens to trickle down to RC, so be it. It won't be intentional. So the available resources to copy is drying up. Who will the Chinese steal from then? I think I already know and you poor RC folks might find you fell out of favor. How do I know? Because I meet with people that make decisions.
They certainly don't execute any of their own research. That would require hiring and paying someone with .
The problem is not the availability of a 50-60cc twin. The problem is they cost more than people want to pay. I can't afford it is not a reason to not purchase one, and to blame cheap engine manufacturers for not making a product that will have low sales volume is even worse. You want a 60cc tein. 3w 56 and never look back. Wait a bit and you might run into a 68cc twin. That's just a maybe because it may not get released to the public to prevent copying.
You want a twin? Step up to the plate. Your option is to sit in the bleachers (cheap seats of course) and watch the players enjoy the game. For the whiners, please don't respond with how the prime makers are locking eveyone out of the game because the price is too high. If the price is too high for you it's a game you don't yet deserve to be playing. Save your loose change until you CAN afford one.
What most of you don't realize is that your hopes and plans of bigger and better engines at a cheap price is coming to an end soon. The primes that do and did all the R&D for new developments aren't listening to you (the modeler) anymore because all their work was stolen by people that are selling below their manufacturing cost. They are now focused on people that will continue to put food on THIER table and if some of that focus happens to trickle down to RC, so be it. It won't be intentional. So the available resources to copy is drying up. Who will the Chinese steal from then? I think I already know and you poor RC folks might find you fell out of favor. How do I know? Because I meet with people that make decisions.
They certainly don't execute any of their own research. That would require hiring and paying someone with .
06-07-2011, 01:40 PM
#16
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RE: DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
In my writings the word "you" is usually both collective and a generality.
Those descirbed as too cheap know who they are. Nobody has to point them out. If someone wants to take offense, pleasde feel free to do so. The problem isn't mine, it's yours, and I have no problem if someone feels offended since I don't have a problem
"yours" being another collective and generalizing form of the word.
In truth, none of the less expensive twins on the market would be there if DA and 3w had not already made them. There is zero innovation found for the vast majority of Chinese engines. Even the DLE twins are just now catching on to what the primes ahve been doing for years. You can start looking for those changes at the bearings.
Those descirbed as too cheap know who they are. Nobody has to point them out. If someone wants to take offense, pleasde feel free to do so. The problem isn't mine, it's yours, and I have no problem if someone feels offended since I don't have a problem
"yours" being another collective and generalizing form of the word.In truth, none of the less expensive twins on the market would be there if DA and 3w had not already made them. There is zero innovation found for the vast majority of Chinese engines. Even the DLE twins are just now catching on to what the primes ahve been doing for years. You can start looking for those changes at the bearings.
06-07-2011, 03:21 PM
#17
RE: DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
"In truth, none of the less expensive twins on the market would be there if DA and 3w had not already made them. There is zero innovation found for the vast majority of Chinese engines. Even the DLE twins are just now catching on to what the primes ahve been doing for years. You can start looking for those changes at the bearings."
TOM
"We stand on the shoulders of giants" This is true with anything. Innovation is building upon what was done before us. This holds true in every aspect of our lives. Especially in music.
I am sorry you are so bitter about the Chinese. Maybe if the politicians would make it easier to do business in this country it could be different.
Regardless, I would love to see a DLE 40cc twin and a 60cc twin.
TOM
"We stand on the shoulders of giants" This is true with anything. Innovation is building upon what was done before us. This holds true in every aspect of our lives. Especially in music.
I am sorry you are so bitter about the Chinese. Maybe if the politicians would make it easier to do business in this country it could be different.
Regardless, I would love to see a DLE 40cc twin and a 60cc twin.
06-07-2011, 03:33 PM
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RE: DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
The problem is not the availability of a 50-60cc twin. The problem is they cost more than people want to pay. I can't afford it is not a reason to not purchase one, and to blame cheap engine manufacturers for not making a product that will have low sales volume is even worse. You want a 60cc twin. 3w 56 and never look back. Wait a bit and you might run into a 68cc twin. That's just a maybe because it may not get released to the public to prevent copying.
You want a twin? Step up to the plate. Your option is to sit in the bleachers (cheap seats of course) and watch the players enjoy the game. For the whiners, please don't respond with how the prime makers are locking eveyone out of the game because the price is too high. If the price is too high for you it's a game you don't yet deserve to be playing. Save your loose change until you CAN afford one.
What most of you don't realize is that your hopes and plans of bigger and better engines at a cheap price is coming to an end soon. The primes that do and did all the R&D for new developments aren't listening to you (the modeler) anymore because all their work was stolen by people that are selling below their manufacturing cost. They are now focused on people that will continue to put food on THIER table and if some of that focus happens to trickle down to RC, so be it. It won't be intentional. So the available resources to copy is drying up. Who will the Chinese steal from then? I think I already know and you poor RC folks might find you fell out of favor. How do I know? Because I meet with people that make decisions.
They certainly don't execute any of their own research. That would require hiring and paying someone with creditable experience.
The problem is not the availability of a 50-60cc twin. The problem is they cost more than people want to pay. I can't afford it is not a reason to not purchase one, and to blame cheap engine manufacturers for not making a product that will have low sales volume is even worse. You want a 60cc twin. 3w 56 and never look back. Wait a bit and you might run into a 68cc twin. That's just a maybe because it may not get released to the public to prevent copying.
You want a twin? Step up to the plate. Your option is to sit in the bleachers (cheap seats of course) and watch the players enjoy the game. For the whiners, please don't respond with how the prime makers are locking eveyone out of the game because the price is too high. If the price is too high for you it's a game you don't yet deserve to be playing. Save your loose change until you CAN afford one.
What most of you don't realize is that your hopes and plans of bigger and better engines at a cheap price is coming to an end soon. The primes that do and did all the R&D for new developments aren't listening to you (the modeler) anymore because all their work was stolen by people that are selling below their manufacturing cost. They are now focused on people that will continue to put food on THIER table and if some of that focus happens to trickle down to RC, so be it. It won't be intentional. So the available resources to copy is drying up. Who will the Chinese steal from then? I think I already know and you poor RC folks might find you fell out of favor. How do I know? Because I meet with people that make decisions.
They certainly don't execute any of their own research. That would require hiring and paying someone with creditable experience.
The Chinese have had a culture of selling on price for thousands of years now. Raw materials are world pricing, labor, rents etc are increasing, the value of the RMB versus any of the overseas currencies is decreasing so they need to reduce costs and increase sales. How? by reducing input costs (Lesser grades of raw materials, lesser priced labor and rents, less "wastage" of components by changing specifications for acceptance - yes I am trying to be slightly politically correct here).
The scary bit is we are all paying the Chinese to take over the world!!
Like T.O.M. I deal with some of the innovators in an industry where some innovations trickle to RC (not quite on the same scale T.O.M. does though) and he is absolutley right - RC is very much now an accidental byproduct of those innovations.
As for the original post - the 40 twin would be similarly powerful to their 30 single and would most likely be more of a curiosity piece for a few buyers - that doesn't fit in the Chinese business model of large production qty. The 60 twin would be of more use but most likley no more powerful than the 55 Single (or perhaps a 60 single that has been mooted for a while now). Again - not suited to the high production numbers but much closer to them than the 40 twin would be.
As has been stated, there are already a couple of decent choices out there - they just cost a little more initially.
I know I learnt my lesson the hard way about low purchase price engines versus paying a little more up front (hence my sig line) and sure am glad I eventually followed some very sound advice from some very experienced people - just took me a while to catch on is all.
06-07-2011, 03:42 PM
#20
RE: DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
ORIGINAL: cessnaflyer54
VG you coming down for the Warbirds over Denver this weekend ?
VG you coming down for the Warbirds over Denver this weekend ?
06-07-2011, 04:24 PM
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RE: DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
The problem is not the availability of a 50-60cc twin. The problem is they cost more than people want to pay. I can't afford it is not a reason to not purchase one, and to blame cheap engine manufacturers for not making a product that will have low sales volume is even worse. You want a 60cc twin. 3w 56 and never look back. Wait a bit and you might run into a 68cc twin. That's just a maybe because it may not get released to the public to prevent copying.
You want a twin? Step up to the plate. Your option is to sit in the bleachers (cheap seats of course) and watch the players enjoy the game. For the whiners, please don't respond with how the prime makers are locking eveyone out of the game because the price is too high. If the price is too high for you it's a game you don't yet deserve to be playing. Save your loose change until you CAN afford one.
What most of you don't realize is that your hopes and plans of bigger and better engines at a cheap price is coming to an end soon. The primes that do and did all the R&D for new developments aren't listening to you (the modeler) anymore because all their work was stolen by people that are selling below their manufacturing cost. They are now focused on people that will continue to put food on THIER table and if some of that focus happens to trickle down to RC, so be it. It won't be intentional. So the available resources to copy is drying up. Who will the Chinese steal from then? I think I already know and you poor RC folks might find you fell out of favor. How do I know? Because I meet with people that make decisions.
They certainly don't execute any of their own research. That would require hiring and paying someone with creditable experience.
The problem is not the availability of a 50-60cc twin. The problem is they cost more than people want to pay. I can't afford it is not a reason to not purchase one, and to blame cheap engine manufacturers for not making a product that will have low sales volume is even worse. You want a 60cc twin. 3w 56 and never look back. Wait a bit and you might run into a 68cc twin. That's just a maybe because it may not get released to the public to prevent copying.
You want a twin? Step up to the plate. Your option is to sit in the bleachers (cheap seats of course) and watch the players enjoy the game. For the whiners, please don't respond with how the prime makers are locking eveyone out of the game because the price is too high. If the price is too high for you it's a game you don't yet deserve to be playing. Save your loose change until you CAN afford one.
What most of you don't realize is that your hopes and plans of bigger and better engines at a cheap price is coming to an end soon. The primes that do and did all the R&D for new developments aren't listening to you (the modeler) anymore because all their work was stolen by people that are selling below their manufacturing cost. They are now focused on people that will continue to put food on THIER table and if some of that focus happens to trickle down to RC, so be it. It won't be intentional. So the available resources to copy is drying up. Who will the Chinese steal from then? I think I already know and you poor RC folks might find you fell out of favor. How do I know? Because I meet with people that make decisions.
They certainly don't execute any of their own research. That would require hiring and paying someone with creditable experience.
06-07-2011, 05:34 PM
#23
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RE: DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
ORIGINAL: Antique
the best 60 cc twin has been available for quite a while. Look on the 3 w ebsite. 55 cc, worlds strongest small twin. Be prepered to spend some money, butyou really do get what you pay for...
Cheapskates need not apply[>:]
the best 60 cc twin has been available for quite a while. Look on the 3 w ebsite. 55 cc, worlds strongest small twin. Be prepered to spend some money, butyou really do get what you pay for...
Cheapskates need not apply[>:]
ROTO 57cc www.troybuiltmodels.com/items/ROTO50V2.html
the SAITO 57cc is cheaper and very reliable engine.. www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx
06-07-2011, 05:55 PM
#24
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RE: DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
The DLE 30 is a good little engine but unfortunately you can't make an engine from just a pair of cylinders. You also have to design and manufacture a case that's performance functional, and here's the real hard part, a crank that will handle a pair of rods with counterbalances of the right size, weight, and angles. Cranks are a science. I should have spelled science with a capital S. A little history and some flat footed research and people would find cranks have been a real problem for the Chinese. Not just with the metalurgy and design science but with their assembly. Had the primes not provided them with examples to copy you still would not have any singles. At that it took them a long time to get a crank that would stay together. Then you have bearings. The wrong ones will cost you power.
There was a comment earlier from Hanko stating "there is not much a market for them. expensive, heavy, dont run much better than the 55 singles" . Obviously he's never had a 3w 56 or used one in a heavy aircraft. The 3w 28 will fly a 45 pound plane all day long, over, and over, and over and after 600 hours still look almost as good internally as the day it was first sold if lubrication is maintained correctly. The 3w 56 will push or pull about 30%-40% more without breaking a sweat, and continue to do so for as long or longer than a 28.
Friend of mine uses a 3w 56 in an Extreme Flight Yak. Considering the additional weight of the 56 that plane can fly slower than about anything I've seen in size class because of the additional torque of the 56. It also requires less throttle to do the same things the average run of 50-55cc engines require. So they work pretty good in light planes too.
It was also said earlier that I'm bitter about the Chinese. Not true in the least. They are doing what any enemy intends to do, and that's defeat their enemies. In this case they've chosen economics as the battleground. However, I am disgusted, and not with the Chinese. I'm disgusted with all the people that don't have the ability to look past how much money they have in their pocket today, that don't have the patience or ability to save for a purchase, and are always seeking something for nothing. If people think I'm referring to a very large portion of the American public they are right. In their quest for ever cheaper "stuff" they have helped destroy this county's ability to be self sufficient and made us dependant on people that will work for less, eat for less, do without health insurance, subject their children to slave labor, and rampantly pollute the environment. All this while the bargain buyers are clamoring for their country to provide everything for nothing, protect the children, their jobs, and the environment. As their jobs are exported overseas and their wages and benefits diminish the best they can do is cry out for trade embargoes and ask for still more cheaper "stuff".
There was a comment earlier from Hanko stating "there is not much a market for them. expensive, heavy, dont run much better than the 55 singles" . Obviously he's never had a 3w 56 or used one in a heavy aircraft. The 3w 28 will fly a 45 pound plane all day long, over, and over, and over and after 600 hours still look almost as good internally as the day it was first sold if lubrication is maintained correctly. The 3w 56 will push or pull about 30%-40% more without breaking a sweat, and continue to do so for as long or longer than a 28.
Friend of mine uses a 3w 56 in an Extreme Flight Yak. Considering the additional weight of the 56 that plane can fly slower than about anything I've seen in size class because of the additional torque of the 56. It also requires less throttle to do the same things the average run of 50-55cc engines require. So they work pretty good in light planes too.
It was also said earlier that I'm bitter about the Chinese. Not true in the least. They are doing what any enemy intends to do, and that's defeat their enemies. In this case they've chosen economics as the battleground. However, I am disgusted, and not with the Chinese. I'm disgusted with all the people that don't have the ability to look past how much money they have in their pocket today, that don't have the patience or ability to save for a purchase, and are always seeking something for nothing. If people think I'm referring to a very large portion of the American public they are right. In their quest for ever cheaper "stuff" they have helped destroy this county's ability to be self sufficient and made us dependant on people that will work for less, eat for less, do without health insurance, subject their children to slave labor, and rampantly pollute the environment. All this while the bargain buyers are clamoring for their country to provide everything for nothing, protect the children, their jobs, and the environment. As their jobs are exported overseas and their wages and benefits diminish the best they can do is cry out for trade embargoes and ask for still more cheaper "stuff".
06-07-2011, 06:35 PM
#25
RE: DLE 40cc or 60cc twin?
Yah, a certain country used economics to defeat the Soviet Union as well. Human nature to chase the bargain really. And it will never be possible to be competitive in the world market when the U.S. is the most expensive place to run a business through taxation and regulation. No wonder most of our business has been off shored. Whatever, let it all collapse, meanwhile I am going to fly my planes.
And all I wanted was a DLE 60cc twin!
And all I wanted was a DLE 60cc twin!