Did a search and came up with 192 pages for the DLE20. That is a lot of pages just to find out what is a good break in method for this motor. I purchased one today and it is shipping next week. It will be going into a 1/7 scale P-51B. Can it be broke in on a bench setup like the glow motors? I picked up the tach for it too. I havent played with glow motors in over 20 years, the last one was an OS .25 for a heli.

What would work, prop size, tach settings, how long per run, what rpm per run, etc until I can trust the motor to fly the plane?<br type="_moz" />

Sounds like you are fairly new to gas engines, so I suggest that you read the Newbie to Gas Information thread located at the top of the forum page which has some great gas tips and information. Also in the very first pages of the DLE20 thread you mentioned is ALL the information you asked about.

Unlike glow engines, gassers don't require any extended bench running for breaking in, as that process is much better done while flying the model. Just run a couple tankfuls through the engine on the ground in 10 minute low to mid rpm segments with an ample cooling down period in between runs to accustom yourself to the engine and then go fly, just no full power up lines or extended WOT throttle runs for the first gallon or so.

Karol

Straight from DLE downloads (Running in=Breaking-in at 4500RPM/min for 2 hours. Running at low speed for too long might carbonizethe spark plug) The instruction manual is only 3 pages


Cheers

So don't be lazy, read all of it, and likely answer any of the other 300 or so questions you're going to have as you play with the engine. Why should every one have to answer the same questions all over again. Of those 192 pages, probably 150 of them were caused by having to answer the same questions 4 or more times.

Some more reading from Tower.
http://manuals.hobbico.com/dle/dleg0020-manual-v1_1.pdf

Unfortunately the Tower manual is reported to have several errors in it, so I would advise not going that route for needed information, but rather as T.O.M suggested take the time and read the DLE thread through. It makes very interesting reading.

Karol

OK OK I've read that the Tower (DLE20) manual has numerous errors..........do I believe that??????????? I have both manuals, the DLE which is half Chinese and the manual that comes with the engine if you purchase it from Tower.............who can authoritatively point out the errors in the Tower manual. I have done business with Tower for a long time and have never had problems with their manuals. Are their OS and Futaba manuals full of errors too?

You should start believing it.

Errors in the Tower Hobbies/Hobby Services/Hobbico manual for the DLE20;

Pg 4 - 93 octane gas {NOT required! 87 octane gas is all that's needed}

Pg 7 - Dubro vibration reduction mount {NOT required! Most any mount designed for a glow 1.20 will work. That Dubro only adds unnecessary extra weight}

Pg 9 - In the photo of the idle screw {Idle screw is NOT required and is best removed! Use
the throttle linkage & your Tx to set & control idle speed.}

Pg 9 - deactivate throttle return spring. {WRONG! Leave it in place! Should your linkage ever come off for whatever reason, that little spring will assist in bringing the engine back down to idle. It also reduces shaft wear on throttle shaft itself in carb.}

Pg 12 - "Each DLE engine has been factory preset" {BIG time B.S. They're ONLY preset to start in most locations for most buyers, NOT preset to run correctly! Each buyer needs to go through the LS/HS needles after warm up & set each for proper operation.}

Pg 13 - where it states the DLE 20 timing is supposed to be 38-40 degrees. {B.S. again, correct timing is 28-30 degrees BTDC.}

Jody.....did I miss any?


I sent an eMail to Hobby Services/Tower Hobbies about these earlier this year, but no response. Initially they even stated they included stand-off's {no such thing as the DLE20 is a rail mount, NOT a radial mount!}

One correction IS needed for/by DLEngines themselves, in that running on the ground for break-in. BAD idea! Tune it & fly it, moderately for first couple gallons.

Use the prop you intend to fly with during break-in.

Run it as is for 4-5 minutes just to warm it up thoroughly.
Then follow the procedures in the link to follow on tuning gas engines....

Jody's gas engine tuning tips (pdf files);
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10293852

No more than one 10 ounce tank of gas should be needed to tune.
Then go fly, moderately for first couple gallons.

Or read the DLE 20 thread and eliminate just about all the further questions. As long as you guys are willing to spoon feed him he'll stand there with his mouth open.

Sounds rude or harsh, bout no more or less than someone that refuses to consult a data source containing all the information they need. Since he does not know how to break in an engine we can safely presume he's new to gassers, and his provious experience has been limited to glow engines. Tower is woefully equipped to deal with gas engine users, and their tech reps and documentation have continuously reflected that.

a1pcfixer............thanks for pointing those out............that's what I wanted to know............it helps when items that are said to be wrong are point out rather than just saying there are errors.............just like going to the doctor and saying "I don't feel good............fix me"

thanks again.......much appreciated.
Andy

The spark plug gap at .018 is too close, use at LEAST .024.
Even more is better...I like .040, your results may vary. And long break in is a myth..
Can you see a real lumberjack running his brand new Stihl chainsaw for 2 hours to break it in ???? LOL

Sorry Ralph, but a relatively long break in for our engines is not a myth. I've performed far to much work in this area to deny the evidence. A 10 hour engine provides more RPM than a 1 hour engine if it was not heat abused during the break in process. That chainsaw is more heavily loaded than our gassers, AND they have some pretty well designed cooling air ducting. Plus they are carbed to run essentially at two speeds, high idle and WOT. At WOT they all run pretty rich, adding a greater cooling effect, and/or carrying away a lot more heat energy. That's why they can run hotter than our airplane gassers and get away with it.

Ever heard the term TLDR? That thread was just that. After the 4th page of hey when can I get one, or need more Mt Dew, I gave up reading it.

  I did read the newbie thread, and it was helpful, didnt really tell me anything I didnt already know.

 The one thing I needed verification on was the bench running, I read somewhere not to do it, and elsewhere to do it.  Basically confirmed to run it in the plane in the air, mid throttle or so, very little WOT if possible for the first few gallons.   As with any engine, proper break in techniques provide long engine life.  The Glow engines run on a bench with a certain prop at certain speeds for set amount of time before mounting in a plane is one technique that gives a long engine life, but is NOT the same technique used for the gas engine, and that is what I needed to confirm.  Treat it the same as I would a new car, drive lightly the first 500 miles, light throttle, no hard acceleration, etc. and that appears to be the same for these gas engines.

When it comes to the actual engine itself, these are really just mini versions of the one on the end of a weed wacker, or a snow thrower, or even on a motorbike, but have less cooling, thinner crankcase and cylinders, and overall lighter weight materials, so more delicate, but the carb works pretty much the same. I've been working on them for a good 25 years now, quite familiar with 2 cycle gasoline engines, but never had the chance to mess with these little guys.

One thing not mentioned in the newbie thread, and I feel it is important, ALWAYS drain the tank and empty the carb when done flying for any length of time if Ethanol is present in your gas, the ethanol will eat the gaskets and dry out the fuel lines. I made the mistake of having a half tank of fuel in my weed wacker left over for the winter, it sat for about 7 months with that fuel in it and when I went to use it, the gas poured out the tank where the fuel lines are and I found they had disintegrated from the Ethanol.  So much for using sta-bil. Gas was still good, no varnish, but no fuel lines either.

acdii,

Yeah you're right about the ethanol.............I run non-ethanol fuel in all my yard equipment and my boat and now my models. Problem is that non-ethanol only comes in the higher grade gas around here but then $4.50 a gallon is a lot cheaper than $22.00 a gallon.

I don't want to sound argumentative, but what I see on this list, except for the suggested timing of 38-40 degrees, are not necessarily errors. First of all, it is very rare to find any manuals that are 100% error free, even my Airtronics $400 SD-10G's manual has some errors. IMO it is DLE's responsibility to produce a decent manual. At least Hobbico took the time and effort to print a more detailed manual. It does say 93 octane gas (actually that was taken from the original Chinese manual but it also states "87 octane gasoline will suffice". On page 7 it recommends to use a two-piece engine mount that does not overlap at the firewall LIKE the Dubro VREM (only a suggestion). The idle screw issue is common sense, you either loosen it or remove it. That I figured out from the time I bought my first gas engine. About leaving the throttle spring engaged, that has been debated before by many, some of us prefer to deactivate it others will rather leave it in place. I prefer to disengage it to diminish servo stress, in most cases if the linkage comes off what the spring will do is close the throttle completely and kill the engine, which I can accomplish with an opto kill switch. As for the engine being factory preset, the manual says clearly "...slight adjustment of the carburetor may be necessary." My DLE 20 actually ran almost perfectly out of the box, and only required minor adjustments. I read both the Chinese and Hobbico manuals and then just used some common sense to set things up. Once again, IMO none of the items above (except for the timing info, if you decide to mess with it) may seriously affect engine perfomance, they are only recommendations that I would not call "numerous errors".

oh jezuz here we go with the Ethanol crap again...

snip snip snip "One thing not mentioned in the newbie thread, and I feel it is important, ALWAYS drain the tank and empty the carb when done flying for any length of time if Ethanol is present in your gas, the ethanol will eat the gaskets and dry out the fuel lines. I made the mistake of having a half tank of fuel in my weed wacker left over for the winter, it sat for about 7 months with that fuel in it and when I went to use it, the gas poured out the tank where the fuel lines are and I found they had disintegrated from the Ethanol. So much for using sta-bil. Gas was still good, no varnish, but no fuel lines either."


If you had used genuine Tygon or VITON fuel lines you would not have had this problem.
Also any engine purchased since E10 hit the market would have compatible seals and gaskets. You need to send your weedwacker in for a service so the seals and gaskets can be renewed. If you bought one of those budget low cost weedwackers well then that would explain the non compatible lines.

E10 in a boats tank where the boat is stored on water i.e. at a Marina, yeah thats probably not a good idea hence marina's tend to have ethanol free gasoline.

What you describe is a good practice whenever an engine is not going to be usedlong term. But its not a std practice just because Ethanol is present. Even Ethanol free gasoline will lose octane i stored for too long under thrown into the shed for the winter conditions.
The only fuels designed for long term storage is AVGAS and ASPEN fuel (which is essentially Alkylate. Some Avgas has a high percentage of Alkylate as well)

another double post removed




PS:the Tower manual has simply not converted 93RONto 87AKI in their manual. terribly confusing stuff, sloppy work really.

For TH/Hobby Services/Hobbico to even mention the "errors" I noted, is to mislead new users with misinformation, which is therefore "errors" in my book!

For newbies &/or those lacking experience with these various small gas engines gain more experience with them, they eventually begin to comprehend such misinformation as being "errors". I do however agree that TH/Hobby Services/Hobbico has indeed made a fairly good manual for the DLE 20.

You're entitled to your opinion even if it's wrong (which I believe it is), but my opinion gets backed up by the numerous exchanges of info between the engine wizards here (& other forums) and users questions on each item I listed as "errors" in the Hobbico DLE 20 Users Manual.

Sorry Tom and Antique.
Engine breakin varies in length on how hard the piston ring is and how well it is final finished. Some rings from China are way too hard and not finnished too well.

Now about Lumberjacks and break-in. The chainsaws are warmed up a bit and when the cutting begins it is not wide open all the time very long. This is because when cutting with a chainsaw , the operater will let up on throttle a few seconds to get a better angle as the cut prcoedes. The engines are not wide open all the time like you would have a airplane engine. I have seen guys fly about wide open with a RC airplane for just about 80 % of the flight. Guys that have chainsaws do tune the engine also before heavy cutting. The saw does not come out of box...filled with gas and run the _iss out of them. I have done this saw work myself and can post a photo of one heck of a big pile of wood my son-in-law cut with my 15+ year old chain saw I sold to him. Capt,n

In a word, yes.
To sight, not one engine instruction has ever been changed to reflect the special needs of breaking in an ABC or ABN glow motor for top performance that I have ever seen.

As far as "who can authoritatively point out the errors in the Tower manual" this would be a never ending job as manufacturing is not a fixed mark and motors change faster than manuals get updated.

But the good news is that there are a few prolific posters here with some great information that is more than the average RC user will ever need.

So learn to use the search, rather than wearing them out with repeating what can be found.

*note 12-6-11 The Jedi and Tired Old Man have been driven off. But, if you learn to search you can still find what they have written in the past.

It was a 4 YO John Deere combo head unit, and not a cheap one either. What is worse are the winter blend fuels, and I think that is what was in that tank. Inoticed my Hybrid has dropped 6 MPG since they changed the fuel blends. Ihad to put mid grade in there to improve it's performance. Pretty sad when you have to up the gas grade in a Hybrid. It didnt improve the MPG, but it runs better.

Modern carburetors aren't susceptible to ethanol like older models. I use the same gas in my weedeater and chainsaw as in my RC engines and have for years. The only reason I empty out a plane is to keep it from leaking when I put the fuse on the rack inside my trailer.

Not sure what lumberjacks you've been watching but the US Forestry service came in and cut down 143 pines on my property some time back and those guys were using some really neat saws. There were six guys and four saws made by Husqvarna. Three looked pretty stock but one had a custom made pipe on it. They all turned more rpm's than any chainsaw I've ever been around and the one with the pipe would raise the hair on your neck at WOT. These pine trees were some 125 to 130 ft tall and some 30 to 36 inches in diameter. The gent would hammer the throttle cutting roughly half way through the tree then walk around to the other side and begin his cut slightly higher than the one on the front side. On BOTH cuts the saw sounded as though it was a full throttle, turning some wild amounts of rpm, and was slinging wood chips at an unbelievable rate. I am not even going to guess how much HP these Husky's were making but it would embarrass anything we use in our models. The saw with the pipe kinda reminded me of the youtube video of a lumberjack competition where one group has a V-8 with a chain and bar on it. Brute HP and wood flying everywhere.

Link to V-8 chainsaw in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brfKK...eature=related

This one is more like the hot saw the loggers used on my trees. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EVPf...eature=related

"So learn to use the search, rather than wearing them out with repeating what can be found."

Best damned piece of advice I've read in years. Whatever you learn from research sticks. What you are told tends to pass right through.