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4-cycle petrol engines

Old 04-17-2012, 07:01 AM
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georgek54
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Default 4-cycle petrol engines

Hi friends

I made an INTERNET search trying to find 4-cycle petrol engines, but apart from SAITO engines (that cost a lot) I couldn't find anything else.

I am just wondering: Why the Chinese didn't copy (yet) SAITO engines? Is there some kind of patent pending? And why OS-MAX, the main SAITO rival, didn't produce yet any PETROL 4-cycle engine?

When cheap petrol 4-cyles engines will appear on the market, I think it will sign a new aeromodelling era, just as 2.4 GHz did.

(Why 4-cycles PETROL? Well, I will repeat the opinion expressed on this FORUM by a modeller, a few years ago: “Some of us just don't want to listen to that chainsaw noise that the 2 strokes make” -especially true for us, scale modellers)

Regards

George
Old 04-17-2012, 07:04 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=827442
Rotos?
Old 04-17-2012, 07:51 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

Wait a little,NGH is about to introduce 4 stroke gas engine soon.
Old 04-17-2012, 08:45 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines


ORIGINAL: georgek54

I made an INTERNET search trying to find 4-cycle petrol engines, but apart from SAITO engines (that cost a lot) I couldn't find anything else.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1167413

ORIGINAL: Turk1

Wait a little,NGH is about to introduce 4 stroke gas engine soon.
Who cares ? he should firstly improve his CRAP 2 stroke engines...

Old 04-17-2012, 08:57 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

Here you go


www.ladbrokehobbies.co.uk




Paul



Old 04-17-2012, 09:19 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

Looks neat, but if my math is close that works out to over $900 for a 50cc class single...
Old 04-17-2012, 11:16 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

Τhere is a growing interest in smaller displacement engines, i.e 20 or 25 cc (or even smaller), equivalent to 1.20 to 1.50 glows . Most 1.80 to -say- 2.10 m wingspan warbirds need a 1.20 to 1.50 glow engine.

The problem with a glow engine, bigger than .90, is that it is "nitro-thirsty". For a fly-day you may need 2 liters or more of expensive fuel. A 1-gallon container (3.7 liters) costs here, in Greece, 31 bucks-and that's the best price you can find.

There comes the need for low displacement 4-cycle petrol engines. 4-cycle, because it is a "sacrilege" to hear from your beautiful warbird this unbearable howling, that the 2-stroke engines launch to your face.

Undfortunately, it seems that there are not such engines, apart of course these from SAITO, which -for many of us- are not affordable.

The question is why the Chinese have not produced yet 4-cycles engines.

Regards

George
Old 04-17-2012, 11:29 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

I certainly agree with you. Gas engines are much cheaper to feed, plus less slime, no need to bring (and remember to charge) a glow driver and an electric starter.

In he future I think we will see smaller displacement 4 cycles, and small multi cylinder gas engines.

Whether there would be enough sales volume to ever make a small 4 cycle gas engine cheap, though, I think is tough to say.
Old 04-17-2012, 01:15 PM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines


ORIGINAL: georgek54

Τhere is a growing interest in smaller displacement engines, i.e 20 or 25 cc (or even smaller), equivalent to 1.20 to 1.50 glows . Most 1.80 to -say- 2.10 m wingspan warbirds need a 1.20 to 1.50 glow engine.

The problem with a glow engine, bigger than .90, is that it is ''nitro-thirsty''. For a fly-day you may need 2 liters or more of expensive fuel. A 1-gallon container (3.7 liters) costs here, in Greece, 31 bucks-and that's the best price you can find.

There comes the need for low displacement 4-cycle petrol engines. 4-cycle, because it is a ''sacrilege'' to hear from your beautiful warbird this unbearable howling, that the 2-stroke engines launch to your face.

Undfortunately, it seems that there are not such engines, apart of course these from SAITO, which -for many of us- are not affordable.

The question is why the Chinese have not produced yet 4-cycles engines.

Regards

George
George,

I think you should be able to find 4 strokes in the 25-35cc range in weedwackers and chainsaws. I think Husqvarna and Stihl make and sell them. If I recall correctly, you will pay around 200$ for one where the same weedwacker witha 2 stroke in it will cost you maybe 100$. So if you can do a conversion to airplane use, that may be one source to tap. These small industrial engines are heavy, so beware
Old 04-17-2012, 01:59 PM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

http://shop.fun-modellbau.de/index.p...71afd53fb7d3f2

http://www.modellmotoren.eu/

http://www.rotomotor.cz/rotomotor/en/default.html
Old 04-17-2012, 02:39 PM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines


ORIGINAL: georgek54

Hi friends

I made an INTERNET search trying to find 4-cycle petrol engines, but apart from SAITO engines (that cost a lot) I couldn't find anything else.

I am just wondering: Why the Chinese didn't copy (yet) SAITO engines? Is there some kind of patent pending? And why OS-MAX, the main SAITO rival, didn't produce yet any PETROL 4-cycle engine?

When cheap petrol 4-cyles engines will appear on the market, I think it will sign a new aeromodelling era, just as 2.4 GHz did.

(Why 4-cycles PETROL? Well, I will repeat the opinion expressed on this FORUM by a modeller, a few years ago: “Some of us just don't want to listen to that chainsaw noise that the 2 strokes make” -especially true for us, scale modellers)

Regards

George
Now what would the key issue be?
There are a number of 4 cycle gas options available for the RC market but you only want to pay the cost of a simple 2 stroke. Ya can't have it all.

Why aren't there lots of things available for RC? Because the RC market really is quite a small market when compared to other uses of the engines we use.

Why don't the Chinese make a 4 stroke gasser? - they do but the companies that make them don't bother supplying the RC market where the engines are subjected to wild gyrations between positive and negative G forces.

My award for the best overall response so far goes to Andika for

quote:

ORIGINAL: georgek54

I made an INTERNET search trying to find 4-cycle petrol engines, but apart from SAITO engines (that cost a lot) I couldn't find anything else.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1167413

quote:

ORIGINAL: Turk1

Wait a little,NGH is about to introduce 4 stroke gas engine soon.

Who cares ? he should firstly improve his CRAP 2 stroke engines...



Old 04-17-2012, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines


Awesome engines, but if the OP was looking for cheaper than Saito...


Nothing like the sound of a multi cylinder 4 stroke gas rc engine, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94l5u...e_gdata_player
Old 04-17-2012, 06:21 PM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

ORIGINAL: JeffinTD

Awesome engines, but if the OP was looking for cheaper than Saito...
OS and ASP coverting your glow engine to gas or just install a CDI module and run it without nitro.
http://www.justengines.co.uk/acatalo...xperience.html

ORIGINAL: aussiesteve

My award for the best overall response so far goes to Andika for
As you know Turk1 is a NGH/JBA fanboy in RCU, FG and RCG forums...
anyhow the new NGH 4 stroke gas engine is too big for the OPs project.



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Old 04-17-2012, 10:09 PM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

ORIGINAL: Andika

ORIGINAL: JeffinTD

Awesome engines, but if the OP was looking for cheaper than Saito...
OS and ASP coverting your glow engine to gas or just install a CDI module and run it without nitro.
http://www.justengines.co.uk/acatalo...xperience.html

ORIGINAL: aussiesteve

My award for the best overall response so far goes to Andika for
As you know Turk1 is a NGH/JBA fanboy in RCU, FG and RCG forums... [img][/img]
anyhow the new NGH 4 stroke gas engine is too big for the OPs project.



Yeah, how many JBA glow did you play with?Do you have any NGH gas engine or play with for a friend s need?Do you really believe too, Michael Chow follows money to trap then will be disappear?
If you have any JBA glow, I believe you will change your prejudice .
Old 04-17-2012, 10:26 PM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines


ORIGINAL: Turk1

ORIGINAL: Andika

ORIGINAL: JeffinTD

Awesome engines, but if the OP was looking for cheaper than Saito...
OS and ASP coverting your glow engine to gas or just install a CDI module and run it without nitro.
http://www.justengines.co.uk/acatalo...xperience.html

ORIGINAL: aussiesteve

My award for the best overall response so far goes to Andika for
As you know Turk1 is a NGH/JBA fanboy in RCU, FG and RCG forums... [img][/img]
anyhow the new NGH 4 stroke gas engine is too big for the OPs project.



Yeah, how many JBA glow did you play with?Do you have any NGH gas engine or play with for a friend s need?Do you really believe too, Michael Chow follows money to trap then will be disappear?
If you have any JBA glow, I believe you will change your prejudice .
Howdy Turk I think there just having a little fun .The worst part is not that he takes your $ and disapears but that he takes your $ and then comes back for more .[:-] If you cant get parts later on whats the point ? Cheers the pope
Old 04-17-2012, 11:30 PM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines


Now what would the key issue be?
There are a number of 4 cycle gas options available for the RC market but you only want to pay the cost of a simple 2 stroke. Ya can't have it all.
OS-MAX 120 FS costs here about 455 $ (best price) and OS-MAX 155 costs 470$.

I would gladly pay this amount for a 4-cycle petrol engine of the same displacement, but can't find.

Thanks for the information. But these engines are at least 45 cc or bigger and rather expensive, not compared with the above OS engines.

I have this simple consideration:

Pay 900 or 1000 $ for a SAITO petrol engine. O.K.- I pay.

But will I ever get my money back (difference from a glow -say OS- engine)? There is a difference of about 500$ in the price of the engine. How many hours of flight, how many gallons of nitro fuel should I save to get my money back?


Regards

George

Old 04-18-2012, 12:14 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

Howdy George , if your looking to get your $ worth or value for money your in the wrong hobby . Nothing makes money sense in this game . Cheers the pope
Old 04-18-2012, 12:18 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

Ck. out  www.stengines.com     I have  a kit comming to do a SAITO 150 to gas for around $ $150.00 

Max seams to be a  purty good person to work with  !!!!      R/L
Old 04-18-2012, 02:02 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

Howdy George , if your looking to get your $ worth or value for money your in the wrong hobby . Nothing makes money sense in this game . Cheers the pope
You're right. In this hobby (and I think in every hobby) money and cost isn't the first consideration. But when the time comes to buy something, plane or engine etc., don't tell me that you don't make a comparison between similar products.

That's what I'm doing now. For the moment I remain to glow engines, just to have a nice sound from my engine, paying the expensive nitro fuel, discarding 2-cycle petrol engines.


Regards

George

Old 04-18-2012, 04:16 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

One thing that a lot of guys assume that by replacing one of their MANY engines to gas will save them so much money. But the truth is that we, in the age of ARFs, have many planes and rotate between them frequently. So, unless you started with gas and have all your engines running on gas, you won't be running your gasser long enough to defray the extra up-front cost of spark ignition.

I have a large Saito glow engine and have been considering conversion to gas. But I only run that plane at the beginning and end of our short flying season because it is large to handle the extra windy conditions around that time. If I convert it to gas, it would only be for academic reasons to gain the experience.

So, unless you plan on flying that plane all the time, I don't think you will be saving much money by going gas. It might be less slimey, but not cheaper overall.
Old 04-18-2012, 05:08 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines


ORIGINAL: Andika

ORIGINAL: JeffinTD

Awesome engines, but if the OP was looking for cheaper than Saito...
OS and ASP coverting your glow engine to gas or just install a CDI module and run it without nitro.
http://www.justengines.co.uk/acatalo...xperience.html

ORIGINAL: aussiesteve

My award for the best overall response so far goes to Andika for
As you know Turk1 is a NGH/JBA fanboy in RCU, FG and RCG forums... [img][/img]
anyhow the new NGH 4 stroke gas engine is too big for the OPs project.



How big? Is that 88 on the crankcase mean 88 cc? How bad are the vibes with a single cylinder gas that big? It would shake the plane apart, that is not scale flying!!!
Old 04-18-2012, 05:55 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

georgek54,

So let me understand here, you are upset that some manufacturer hasn't copied someone else's hard work in order to provide you with a cheap source of gasoline 4-stroke engines?

Maybe you can have your way... go buy a magnum 4-stroke and convert it to gas using a cheap, copied ignition system. If you bought a used Magnum engine (and there are plenty of low-time ones out there), you could convert it to gas for much less cost. Then you can have your cheap, copied Chinese engine.

Has anyone converted a Magnum 4 stroke to gas successfully?
Old 04-18-2012, 06:45 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

So let me understand here, you are upset that some manufacturer hasn't copied someone else's hard work in order to provide you with a cheap source of gasoline 4-stroke engines?
No, no, please don't misundertand me! I am not upset!

It was just a question!

On the other hand it is a fact that the Chinese have copied some branches offering us cheap engines, even though not so powerfull and long-lasting.

But this gave the opportunity to many new modellers to try this expensive hobby-in our hard times.

Good? Bad? I can not answer to this, it becomes rather a "philosophic" question.

I will consider perhaps converting one or two of my 4-cycles glow engines to petrol, provided that somebody else has already tried this succesfully. This can be done only with one of my cheap engines because converting for example an OS- 150 FS -that costs 470 $- and paying 150$ more for the conversion KIT, then I am very close to SAITO budget.


Regards

George

Old 04-18-2012, 07:12 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

Besides, how much power do you lose if you convert a 4-stroke nitro to gas? You have to account for the weight gain from going to gas plus the heavier 4-stroke engine to begin with. That might not be a problem for large planes, but for smaller ones, it might be a show-stopper.
Old 04-18-2012, 07:30 AM
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Default RE: 4-cycle petrol engines

georgek54, don't worry friend, I wasn't meaning to be too hard on you... that's why I put the happy face in there. I would be very interested in converting a four stroke to gas, or at least add an ignition and go straight alcohol. I will do some looking around on RCU to see if anyone has done it successfully on a low budget.

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