captinjohn

I got to agree with what Antique (Ralph) said al along. A small engine like a 30 cc 20cc or less cc does not need any advance at all. But I will say this...if you use a ignition with a advance....make sure it is the corect advance for that engine. Capt,n

Tony Hallo

So the Number 4 provides 34 degrees at 2200 rpm inone step?

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

It is not that much but is enough that the module doesn't work so well at less than 28 degrees total on the degree wheel.

I'll have to go back in the DLE 20 thread and see what it is? I think Jody talked about the total advance at one time.

Edit: DLE says the timing should be 32 degrees total on the engine. I measured mine and it was a little more than that at 34 degrees from the factory with the sensor centered on the casting seam.

aerobear

My Feedback: (4)

I can update my radio and chargers over the internet with a USB cable. If Rcexl made their ignitions like that, you could pick the advance curve you wanted. Better yet, a user customizable curve with handy app to tune out the rough spots where your aircraft vibrates.

Even better, program it from the transmitter. Radios now days have customizable curves for anything you want so why not ignition? Flip a switch or twist a knob to change the curve.

Maybe that's a bad Idea. The "Custom advance curve" thread would reach 500 pages in about a month. The first 400 pages would explain over and over that you can't expect a custom ignition curve to fix poorly adjusted needles. The engine companies that use Rcexl would not use it since they would need double their support staff to handle all the inquiries on screwed up ignition curves. It could be an aftermarket item only. There would not be enough time to discuss oil mixes and fly too.

gr8flyer55

I've already done just that by optimizing what I would call an extremely close rival to the best advance curve that RCExl has produced. Been using it in my advance portion of my ignition for months now with no nasty habits.
Like most modern ignitions, mine won't tolerate anything over a 4 cell nicad pack voltage. C&H has a small voltage regulator Chip on their Syncro Spark equipped ignitions. But even using that, if you constantly abuse the electronics by going over that voltage, sooner or later you'll pay the price.

Mine is reprogrammable but now there is no real need to, since it was optimized.
The #4 RCexl module does indeed change timing at around 2200 rpm, which is a really bad spot for it to take place I agree. Makes good slow landings a big problem for those flying an engine so equipped. They know it was a problem now. Not sure how they handled it but going to the generic version has worked fine from what I've read.

John

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

On the bold, I couldn't disagree more. This is typical of the comments DLE 20/30 newbies are reading making them wonder if the stock ignition module should be replaced prior to even flying it. If the DLE 20 or 30 is set up properly with the stock ignition they'll land as slow as anything else will, with engine idle just as reliable. I'll qualify that only by saying that a different module (not a #3 or #4) might make that proper setup a LITTLE easier...

Tony Hallo

So what does the Number 3 curve look like?

Anold throttle coupled unit on a seperate servo would be neat to play with for sure.

Gr8flyer,
How about that optimzed curve, what does it look like?

gr8flyer55

Hi Tony,
Imagine if you will, a graph with a starting point at 500 rpms with a timing advance set at 4 degrees BTDC for ease of starting, then doing a linear advance with rpm increase starting around 1400 rpm up to around 6500 or 7000 where it would level off at 26 to 28 degrees.

This ends up looking like more of a straight line which mimics a throttle coupled spark advance mechanism. Years ago, most gas engines, Brison included, used this system with great success. This was how I ran all my EI equipped engines for years with no problems other than the eventual sloppy linkage due to wear.
I've been testing the linear advance on my plane for a few months now and no problems in either starting at 4 degrees of advance, up through the transition to top rpm. PM me if you would like to try one on an engine.

John

If you have an older TCSA type engine, this is a good replacement for the linkages.

minkiehuoise

i need some help agine. i have a dle 30 with eletronic ign. and would like to find a diagram on how to set it up in my airplane whitch is a super decatlon i thought you might be able to help me.thanks

Tony Hallo

Thank you but I don't have a TCSA, if I did it would be on a servo mixed to throttle. Are you using a TCSA with a programable module? While the RCexl is by far the most popular, the two magenet system like D&B makes more sense to me. If you are a little lazy while starting you will not get smacked.

gr8flyer55

Actually, my system is very similar to a C&H ignition, the new updated versions with auto advance.
Just hook it up, set your initial timing as usual and go fly.

John

bcchi

Going to stay out of this,I am too tired to write what I am thinking.I have two DL 20s and did not buy them with ignitions. I no a guy that can build them if you can get him to go to work.The no 4# DL ign is OK if you want your engine to run like crap.
You'll never no how little I really care.
BCCHI AMA 2500

captinjohn

Please tell us...what is the name of "your" system? Thanks Capt,n

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

Well, for my two cents worth, before I buy a $250.00 engine (DLE 20) that probably cost them all of 30 bucks to actually make, I would want a proper ignition curve. I DON'T CARE that many say "it's not a problem." It's also NOT RIGHT.

AV8TOR

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

So, in an attempt to be productive, you're advising all current owners of 250. DLE 20's to do what?

1. Spend ANOTHER 40-50 dollars or more to make it "right"?
2. Throw your DLE 20 away and buy a different engine?
3. Register your unhappiness regarding the current version ignition module, then move on?
4. Make the best of your current situation realizing it's not perfect, but happens to work fairly well despite the fact it's "not right"??
5. What?

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

Number 4 and number 1. Unless they are happy with how it runs as is, then do nothing.

My post was stating my feelings only. I personally would either not buy the engine until they resolve the issue, or else buy it planning on changing the ignition module. These engines have a non linear throttle response to deal with to begin with. Having a timing advance setup that makes it even worse, is in my way of thinking, ridiculous.

AV8TOR

MetallicaJunkie

i vote 1... setting the timing to 28 and using a standard RCXCEL Ignition module made it the engine idle/run right, not "right"

if it didnt bother me as much then id vote 4 as well

gr8flyer55

I named my system Black Box CDI. Probably cause there seems to be so much mystery to the electronics.
Captn' , if you want to know the mysterious secrets inside, I'll send you one to see for yourself.

John

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Just talking about this, OK? All the gasser's I've messed with have (WAY) non linear throttle response, even my first one, a Q42. That's something that's gong to need to be delt with whatever you get. I agree the step in this module isn't helping the newby's a bit when it comes to setup, but guys I know that have been messing with these for a bit, even if it's just their second, all seem to get past this pretty easily? That, and even though the DLE 30 has nearly the same "step", (#3 module) you don't hear about it as much as you do the 20's. Why? Could it be that the smaller 20 is a little pickier regarding it's needle settings? That's my thought...

FWIW, the little RCGF 20 rail mount I've been messing with lately has a straight ign. curve (to my knowledge) and it's no easier to tune than the DLE. Not a bit... It'll hang on the high idle (easily) if not set fat too! Actually, it sets up exactly like my DLE....

captinjohn

Best offer I had lately....send that Black box to 296 Lizzie ave, Hesperia Mich 49421. Thanks I will do a honest review of it. Capt,n

captinjohn

I agree all the way with AV8TOR....also the big margin of profit DLE made selling these engines, they could easy afford to replace the #4 ignition for the guys that wanted too. Many guys don,t read this stuff and do not know anyway. So DLE would not need to replace many. Come on DLE...give your customers a break for once. Capt,n

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

Thanks Captain John. The big question is, why did they change the great ignition curve that CH Ignitions provided them with before they agreed to be a dealer for them here in the states???

Yes, CH Ignitions reviewed the RCEXL ignitions, recommended changes which RCEXL did, and then, and only then, did BCCHI agree to market them. Why did they change a near perfect setup??

Doubters about BCCHI's feelings about this only need to check a few posts previous for his comment....

AV8TOR

Tony Hallo

Don't own a DLE 20 but those that do what idle speed have youmeasured? I would tend to beleive most are idling above 2000 so does the curve (Or lack there of)matter anyway? Ralph has written many times that the smaller engines start and run fine when using fixed timing set at 28 degrees.

raydar

I have two of the rcg 20 beam mounts and they dont hang at idle anything like the dle 20 I have with stock ignition.

I had to swap out the dle 20 ignition as on my 7..5 pound 20 cc profile it was a problem, every time you popped into hover and blipped the throttle itwould climb out by itself due to the engine rpm increase. Prob not such a big deal for sports flying though.

As for running it fat on the bottom end to help the issue, thatsfine if you want a burbly mid range that surges, again no good for 3d.

Dle wont ever replace the ignitions that users already own, it would bankrupt them, and im not saying they should btw, but it would be good if they listened to the end user and just suppied new engines with a number 3 ignition.

I love the dle 20, just not the ignition.So dle lovers dont get your knickers in a twist.

captinjohn

No that will not bankrupt DLE. What will though is as better quality engines close in on about the same price...the DLE company will slide to the rear fast. A better quality engine with a ignition that is right ....gets peopls attention. Capt,n