I am trying to advise a new club member about a trainer airplane. He is new to the hobby and has no knowledge about what to buy, electric, glow, or gasoline powered. I know very little about electric power and I gave up glow engine years ago. I found on the web a 80" wing span,6 lbs high wing trainer recommended power 40 to 60 glow. The firewall size looks like it could support a small gas engine. The secret to learning to fly is having a dependable airframe and engine. Is their a gasoline engine out there that is dependable. reasonably priced that will fit into this airplane?

Thanks for your help
Rich

I think Evolution has a 60 size gasser.

I was going to recommend the Evolution 10 cc engine as well. I have a Kadet Sr, and I think that engine would be great.

I think the big question is to find out where this person wants to go with the hobby? If electrics are his future, then it might be best to start the investment up front. I prefer gas power though, and I recommend new pilots to gasoline. The days of glow power are coming to an end, I believe. No point in committing to that type of power from the outset anymore as we did in the past.

Got a fellow club member that is all glow and bought the evolution 10cc for a tiger. While the engine is smooth running and easy starting engine. It is also just as messy as glow because of the 20-1 oil required. I would love to know why the OS 40cc can be ran at 40-1 and saito and evolution have such high oil requirements. All that being said I still think it is a good value for what it is. He can't go wrong with the engine for that plane.

I like the idea of the 10, but I would want to know if the newbie thought he'd be comfortable tuning an engine, or if he might be more comfortable with an electric setup?

Any more, given the options available either way, I would really hesitate to make a suggestion one way or the other without more input from him? That's my take anyway, FWIW, -Al

I agree with you, gas is my recommendation as well. After visiting with him for a while, he just don't know what direction he wants to go. I told him to talk to the electric guys and fellows who are still flying glow engine, then decide what is best for him. My main intent was to recommend a gas plane that is a good trainer, and a engine that would allow him to move up to a more aerobatic or scale type airplane.

Thank for your comments
Rich

Shouldn't be AS messy... Most glow engines run over 3x the oil of the Evolution 10cc (5% vs. 18%). 6.4 ounces per gallon isn't too bad for a small gasser in my opinion.

Hi All

I have worked on two cycle gassers for a while. The most likely reason for the high oil to gas ratio is that the engine has plain bearings/bushings in the connecting rod and needs the extra oil to keep it happy. Larger engines have the room as it were to use needle bearings which would allow less oil in the gas.

For this size model and the skill level of the individual I would be inclined to point him towards the electric option. Once he has a handle on electrics and their handling I think it would be easier for a beginner and a whole lot cleaner to deal with.

It really depends upon the local help he can find to get him started into the hobby. I think that would be the most important factor in which power option he chooses.

Carlos G

Just my opinion, but I think beginners should use Park Flyers only if they are going to do electric. I shudder to think of a large electric plane/system/prop, being set up and controlled by a rank beginner. Personally, I think large electric planes are more dangerous than gassers. One mistake working on it and that prop is going to eat something.

The plane the OP has pictured looks too lightly constructed for much durability with a gas engine I would think. There are several trainers out there that call for a 20 to 26cc gas engine.

Here is one, but there are others too: http://www.maxfordusa.com/mentor-g26cctrainer.aspx

AV8TOR

skillet92 - the little Evo has roller bearings, but due to the size of the bearing, more oil is recommended to keep it happy. Not to mention they're turning it up at rpm levels I wouldn't dare take a bigger engine. Same thing regarding the 20cc engines and their suggested 32:1 vs. the 30cc and larger where about anything goes.

Interesting point regarding the size of the op's plane, what it would take to power it with elec. and the associated dangers vs. a park flyer? I think you could get past the safety issues, but I always liked the bigger trainers for their better manners, especially on days when wind is an issue? There's also the thought regarding the fact the larger size is more easily seen? If that's a factor, that idea alone might sway my vote towards the baby Evo. -Al

The EVO 10GX is messy for the first 2/3-3/4 gallon. After break-in it has deposits more than a larger gasser at 40:1 but way less than a typical glow. I switched over to synthetic after about 2 gallons and the deposits are less,
The engine is not that difficult to figure out. Pretty much it's ready to go out of the box as far as carb settings. Getting through the break-in is a bit messy but that's about the only drawback....if you can call it that.
It would be more than enough power for the trainer and he could stay in the air for 30 some minutes on 8 ounces flying a little over half throttle with power to spare.

Small gas engines need more oil because of the small amount of gas they use compared to the area of the cylinder walls and bearings. Larger engines can use a higher oil ratio because they use more gas compared to the swept area/volume of the cylinder.

Any model that calls out for a 60 glow will be stout enough for a 60 gassie.

A couple years ago I converted an Extreme Flight Extra 78" model to gasoline. If you ever saw how lightly constructed that one was you might say I was nuts to put a piped DLE55 in that model. The model weighed around 12 1/2 pounds all up. That's extremely light for a 55. Boy was that fun!!

Most recently I converted a Vanquish Electric 2 meter model from electric to gasoline. Same deal....extremely lightly constructed yet the model is a great gas engine test bed

I thinkmany need to start reconsidering what they think about current crop gas power. It is no longer the older, klunky, overweight, cantankerous powerplant from 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago......One thing certain, all other things equal, a 4 stroke develops much more vibration than a 2 stroke gas engine.

Oh, I absolutely agree about "bigger is better" for a trainer airplane. Bigger flies so much better, is easier to see, less disturbed by a little wind or turbulence, etc., etc. One of the most common things a student asks is "Why did the airplane do that?", when observing the plane doing something they didn't particularly command. (This is true of full scale students as well.) I always explain; "Think of the air as being alive, and think about it behaving like water, gurgling and flowing, etc." With a larger plane, there are much less flight deviations due to wind gusts, etc. and makes it easier for the student. Plus, instead of needing to fly in a near dead calm like with many park flyers, it is possible to fly in more types of weather with larger planes.

Everyone seems to think Electric flight is so much easier. But there is a definite learning curve to it, from proper selection of components, care and feeding of the batteries, safety factors both of the batteries and the "instant start" capability of the motor, etc. I actually think gas is easier and safer, especially in the larger size setups, and it is definitely what I personally would recommend.

AV8TOR

I totally concur.

I think I have enough replies to prove my point. In the long run I believe gas is the best option to begin to fly RC. It continues to amaze me that so many people do not do a little research to understand what they are getting into. Most do not understand simple aerodynamics. The first thing I tell them, our RC airplane are governed by the same principles of flight as the airplanes at the airports, only smaller.

Which makes perfect sense. Thanks!

I've found this to be highly dependant upon the oil used ( the messiness part )

I too would recommend the 10cc 10GX, read the manual and follow the instructions to a T and you shouldn't have too many issues.

Im converting to the dark side (electrics) even with my big 70-80" birds, but I have to agree that to learn, electrics are not the best.</p>

Batteries can be tricky, and too little flight time can also be a factor. I agree 100% with a small gasser.</p>

Forget glow, that is going to be history, as control line in few years.</p>

Control line will never die...

Everyone I get to try it - Builds one... It's a neat feeling...

I had a 15cc gasser on a 60 size Extra. This was very heavy, flew like a brick.
So I put a 90 FS into this and it's one of my favorite planes now.

The gasser went to a 60 size stick plane and does very well. The huge wing surface can handle the weight with no problems.
And this flies so well, it makes a great trainer.

http://www.valuehobby.com/airplanes/...ik-series.html

Even though it's a tail dragger, ground handling is very easy and predictable.

Other then that, I'd get a trainer for a 20 to 30cc gasser, if you don't like glow or electric motors

Thank you for that info. He had asked if it would ever get less messy as it broke it. I guess I should have know that even at 20-1 it would not be as bad as any glow. It is a good running engine and very user friendly.

That plane looks like a Sig Kadet. Normal power would be an LA40 which is plenty of power for it. Any 60 size engine seems like way too much. Seems like a gasser would be too heavy and an electric too complex. Are you sure the airframe will withstand the excess power and weight?

The obvious answer is a LA40 which most of us would be happy to donate to a new modeler. I would give the guy a LA40 and save the more complex power systems, gas or electric, for the next plane.

People have been predicting the end of control line for years. Funny how it seems to be GAINING in popularity. There is an attraction to simplicity that appeals to some, myself included. Glow is simple, reliable and inexpensive for smaller planes.

If you can't tune an LA40 you will NEVER be able to tune a gasser or figure out what electric power system to use with your airplane.

There is a certain thrill to feeling the airplane on those control lines. I still have one left myself, but I haven't flown it in about 5 years. So long that for sure I would have to practice "turning" so that I wouldn't get dizzy and fall down while flying it!! []

AV8TOR

park flyers are to small for a beginner they need bigger to see and control go gas