Hey Guys I have two DLE 20s on my Bronco. I have to adjust them every couple of flights. Had enough with the DLE carbs. Anyone know a good Walbro replacement?. They both where running perfect this morning and then on the 3rd flight, the right engine just would not idle. I've never get more than 4 flights in without have to adjust one or both of them. Driving me crazy. Thing is they are very strong engines when they run right, and have never stopped in the air.any help?Kelly

Not questioning there may be a carb problem but have you got rid of the #4 ignitions yet? That alone can drive a guy crazy much less having two of them on the same airplane. With the #4 ignitions, even very minor carb problems can be amplified to look like a major carb problem!

My friends and I have never done it, but I've read where guys bolting DLE 30 carbs onto their 20's have had good luck? Point being, if you can't find solid advice regarding the 20's, 30 stuff should work OK as well.

The Valley View 20 comes with a Walbro carb. You might contact them for replacements. I'd still look real hard at replacing the ignitions if not already done. The step advance curve in the #4 Rcexl ignition can give even an experienced tuner fits of rage.

<<< the #4 Rcexl ignition can give even an experienced tuner fits of rage.>>>

This sounds an awful lot like it might be the voice of first hand experience? Not that I've ever been there either.....

Agreed though, no clue why you're looking into replacing the carb, but going with a new ign. module (like the 45.00 Rcxp) not a bad plan if you're having trouble but really can't put your finger on the problem.

ahicks, Actually, I've only worked on / adjusted one DLE20 and then after watching its owner fight what he thought were carb settings when in fact he was fighting the ignition. Had I not read about the #4 ignition in the various forums I probably would have thought it was a carb problem myself. Knowing that full advance comes in just above idle we were able to come up with some good compromise settings (mixture and idle speed) and with enough prop load the engine is quite acceptable. But I don't think I would want to tackle two engines with the same problem on the same plane.

I do own a VV20 that is very similar to a DLE20 and it experiences none of the tuning and idle issues associated with the early DLE20 and the #4 ignition.

For the record, I have not yet experienced a bad DLE carb. I'm sure there are bad ones out there just as there are / were bad real Walbro carbs. I know some of the early Walbro clones used on the DL and other engines had some major problems. I have a couple of Walbro carbs here that I really don't care for and have considered using DLE carbs as replacements!

We have not heard back from the OP to know if he has the older DLE20's that came with the #4 ignition or the newer version that is more normal. It would be horrible to have one of each on the same airplane. I continue to bring up the ignition issue as it is extremely easy to confuse this problem with carb problems and we don't know the OP's experience level with these engines. Maybe he can come back and put us all on track.

Ok I'll add this info. When the engines were new, I had one the when set, it ran perfect (engine #2). #1 had alway give me problems. Once adjusted it would run perfect all day. The next time to the field I would have to adjust it.

At the start of the season, I ran both engines. Adjusted #1 like always. I was running both engine when #2 cut off. It has give me problems ever sence. Now they both act the same.

If replacing the egnitions will fix the problem I will do it. However I would hate to do so, and still have to replace the carbs. After spending that much I could just buy some OS 22s.

Any thought on that? I'm at my wits edds with these engines.
Kelly

I have a dle 20 I bought on here. That thing runs like crap. Rough idle . I was flying that engine. My buddy said doesn't that drive you crazy? It was running ruff . So we played with the needles. I found a K-10 carb rebuild kit . That's in my engine. I have not ran it yet. If it still runs like crap , you guys are suggesting on replacing the ignition system ?

vandorpe3
If I were going to make a suggestion regarding ign. module replacement, I'd want to know more specifics about you're issue, the crappy/rough idle? Without knowing anything about that, about all I can tell you is that the engine is easier to tune with the newer style (8.4v) module. The "step" in the original (6v) modules at about 2500 rpm is one thing you'll no longer have to tune around. It's gone...

If it's a "rough" idle you're struggling with, there may be nothing wrong with it? Remember we're talking about a single cylinder 2 stroke engine. Some people might call a perfectly adjusted engine "rough" on the idle? A V8 engine is smooth on idle. A happy 2 stroke is not anywhere near as steady, being best described as having a "lumpy" idle!

I have a vallyview 20 that has that "lumpy idle " that is a good running engine. This DLE needs to be ran for further evaluation . It's doesn't hurt to rebuild a carb, and it's cheep. I did like the fact I was using Walboro parts .

Lets discuss the Rcexl #4 ignition for a bit and the problems it causes. First, there is nothing really wrong with this ignition module except for its strange advance curve and some call it a step more than a curve. Most ignitions have an advance curve that is all in at about 4000 - 4500 RPM. The dang #4 has a curve that as ahicks said, is pretty much just an all in step at about 2500 RPM, which is just above normal idle speed and this is the problem. The #4 ignition runs just fine above about 3000 RPM or so. If you're having midrange or high speed problems with an engine, the #4 ignition isn't causing them unless it is bad. If you're having problems setting the low end, have problems getting a reliable idle speed or you have really strange problems getting the engine to settle back into an idle when you throttle it back or having problems maintaining a reliable idle speed in any way ..... the #4 is certainly contributing to if not causing the problem! AFAIK, the #4 was only supplied on DLE 20 engines. Within the last year, these engines now come with a more normal Rcexl ignition that can be identified by its lack of #4 sticker and a 4.8 - 8.4 voltage rating.

Unless a person is aware of the strange advance curve, the first reaction is to blame the carb when you experience any of the low speed problems listed above. While the carb could certainly be bad, in need of rebuild or adjustment, more times than not on the 20 it is that ignition curve causing the problems.

Here are some more symptoms .... have you tried to adjust the low speed mixture then the engine will just speed up for no reason? Or .... has it just slowed down for no reason, perhaps even dying in the process. .And we're talking maybe a 500 RPM or more changes here. Have you ever been on a landing approach, gave just a tiny bit of throttle to extend the glide and the dang thing just sped up so much it couldn't land .... and it wouldn't settle back to an idle so you end having to go around and try again. Or does the engine run completely different at the end of a flight than at the beginning? Yup, mostly caused by the good old #4 ignition. I should also mention that a less than precision throttle servo can also greatly contribute to the problem when this ignition is used.

Carb problems are usually consistent problems and not problems that require constant adjustments. If a carb is in good mechanical condition, is in a good state of rebuild with good rubber parts, has a good free moving and properly adjusted inlet metering needle, has high enough pop-off pressure, etc .... it should be consistent from one time to the next. Things that could cause inconsistency would be a worn or loose throttle shaft, throttle plate that is loose or just doesn't fit the bore well, dirt in metering passages, crummy cheap throttle servo, etc. Even removing or disconnecting the throttle return spring can contribute to the problem. Of course, rebuild the carbs when needed but worn throttle parts usually mean the carb is a throw away item.

Replace those DLE carbs if you must but don't expect miracles if you retain the #4 ignition boxes.

Can anyone please tell me about when the #4 ignitions were phased out? Just very curious, thanks a bunch!

Not sure about dates but within the last year, plus or minus a few months. I'm sure there are still some old stock engines around at certain dealers though. You could probably call a company like Valley View RC that always has fresh inventory and they could give you an exact answer.

>>> A happy 2 stroke is not anywhere near as steady, being best described as having a "lumpy" idle![/QUOTE] >>>

Good point Al. As with the 2 stroke glow engines, the LS needle setting is a bit of a compromise. Yes, they can be leaned on the bottom end until they tick over like a sewing machine, but then they are harder starting and will often dead stick. So for dependability they need to be richened up on the bottom a little and some lumpiness results.

>>> Agreed though, no clue why you're looking into replacing the carb, but going with a new ign. module (like the 45.00 Rcxp) not a bad plan if you're having trouble but really can't put your finger on the problem.>>>

Is this $45 RCXP ignition working out good for folks? I heard it was lighter and smaller which is a good thing if still robust. What are the advantages supposed to be? Same timing curve? Thanks.

>>> Even removing or disconnecting the throttle return spring can contribute to the problem. >>>

Lots of good info in your post truckracer. Thanks! Is it best to never unhook the throttle return spring? A while back I thought everyone was unhooking them.

I think general opinion has come around to thinking there is really no good reason for removing or disconnecting the spring, and many good reasons for leaving it as delivered. People use to say it overworked the throttle servo but tests by several people have proven the servo load and extra current draw are minimal. I have a spreadsheet I did a while back that I'll try to repost here in the next day.

Just to add to the point, leaving the spring on can help if your servo is less then accurate at centering and many have reported that it lessens wear on the throttle shaft and butterfly. I just started leaving them connected and going back to my older engines and re connecting them

I started hearing about the newer DLE 8.4v ign. modules a year ago this past fall. As mentioned though, dealers could have been sitting on older stock and delivering the older modules with their "new" engines for quite a while after that.

Re: the new RcXp modules, the guys in a position to know what they're talking about, including Milton (the US distributor, rcextremepower.net) are saying lighter, smaller, cheaper, and more robust (including one who's playing with it on 12v). What's not to like?

I have a couple of the RCXP ignitions and they're working perfectly.

There's a guy named John (can't remember his last name) in Hamburg PA ([email protected]) that builds electronic ignitions and repairs RCexl units. His units are called Black Box Ignitions. His prices are very reasonable and his ignitions have a true advance curve built into them. Might be worth a quick message to get him to weigh in on the discussion.
SS

Thanks, I sent him an email.

I'd be interested in what he has to say.

Valley View sold me the carb to what their VVRC 20cc motor uses to replace the DLE carb on my DLE 20. The motor and parts are sent off to be rebuilt, and I didnt think to look at the carb for what number it was, but its a nice, real Walbro at least.

When I get the motor back I will let you guys know how it works and what #Walbro it is, if no one else mentions it by then. But to be fair, its also getting Bocca bearings and Bowman ring as well.. so its bound to be an improvement beyond the carb for mine

Hi guys. Been awhile since I was on here. I got an email from Ernie asking me to join in the conversation about ignitions. As a rule I usually don't pass on my secrets about ignitions. I have been building them since the early 80's. What I now build is comparable to the CH ignition.
I build my own timer boards for the Autoadvance feature. It has what I would call a generic 2 stroke advance curve with a new twist.
My new boards are programmed with a feature called MSD or multi spark discharge which is effect until the rpms reach about 2300 rpm. It helps with rough idle and starting problems on practically every brand engine we tested including a DA-60. As far as I know, we are the only ignitions available with this feature.
Ignitions are built by hand, one at a time and since I've retired from the work force late last year, I take my time building them and testing.
Some specs:
4.8 volt only!!
RCExl style plug caps with full braided shielded wire.

John

You should start a new thread so this info isn't buried in a DLE20 carb thread!

The MSD feature is interesting. It certainly makes a difference in auto engines!