Jonx15

Hi all..
I am on the fence trying to decide between the DLE 20 and the VVrc 20,
There is plenty of info around on the DLE and Ive seen first hand they are great little engines.
Have read the VVrc engine maybe a little smoother and more linear.. Wondering how the power of the VVrc engine compares to the DLE.

I know the Valley View engine is basically a XYZ 20 but I understand they have made some changes to improve it.


Anyone here have any first hand experience comparing the two?
Thanks..

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

While I do not have first hand experience with either model, they interest me and I would buy the Valley View engine, and may in fact do so. I am betting the power and handling will be very similar between the two engines. The Valley View engine however, is guaranteed to have the well known and proven RCEXL ignition, a true Walbro carb, and has great customer service. That along with the benefit of it being cheaper than the DLE, would "seal the deal" for me.

AV8TOR

Jonx15

Like you I am really liking the idea of the RCEXL ingnition and Walbro carb..I also understand they come with a genuine NKG plug and a motor mount.
Heard nothing but good reviews about Valley Views customer support.
.
My plane is a little over 10lbs and Ive seen thrust numbers on the DLE upwards to 14lbs..
I am wanting unlimited vertical for this plane.
Just haven't seen any numbers on the VVrc engine yet....

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

You might look through this thread:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gas-...-rc-20-cc.html

AV8TOR

Indiomike

My Feedback: (5)

I have both. I think the DLE20 has a very slight edge on power but not enough to be concerned about. Both of my ValleyView RC engines run great and I have more confidence in customer service with Valley View RC than Hobbico. Between the two I would choose ValleyView if I were going to buy another 20cc engine. Why? You get a real Walbro carb. You get a real CM6 spark plug. You get the longer throttle arm on the carb and I got engine mounts included with my purchase. Slightly better priced and good customer service if needed. All adds up to give the Valley View the edge.

Indiomike

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Well both engines will come with the Rcexl ignition so that isn't a sales point. As far as the genuine Walbro carb, I'm not sure that is an issue either. I have had zero problems with the Walbro WT clones and in fact see almost zero differences between so called genuine Walbro carbs produced in China and the Walbro clones. If I had to guess, I'd say they are produced in the same factory. I've heard but not confirmed the DLE now comes with a Walbro carb.

With all that said, I own the VV 20 and it is a nice but not great engine though I had a few issues with it at first. With all the talk about Chinese engine reeds, the reed housing provided with this engine was not acceptable to me. It had been surfaced at the factory and they did more damage than good as the edge of the sandpaper had ruined the gasket mating service and it was leaking. The DLE replacement part is exactly the same so my VV engine now has a DLE reed assembly.

If I were to buy another 20, it would probably be the DLE simply because I already have the VV and I'd want to try something different.

Indiomike

My Feedback: (5)

These two engines are probably so close to each other that it really doesn't matter which one you go with. If you have had an issue with one you would probably want to try the other next time. Either engine may be great or possibly have an issue. Who knows?

Tower sells it for $249.99 and if you are a Tower club member you get $35.00 off. So you are looking at $214.99 delivered. ValleyView is having a sale at the present so the engine is $188.95 plus shipping which will probably push the price to about $205.00 depending on where you live( mine was $10.00 shipping).

I've bought engines from both places and haven't had any issues with any of them. I happen to think Valley View has the edge in this case. Either engine will work. Take your pick.

Indiomike

wyo69cowboy

My Feedback: (2)

I have both; the VV20 was slower to break in, and was disappointing at first. It only turned a 17x6 Xoar beech at about 7800. My brand new DLE20 turned the same prop 82-8300 out of the box. However, the VV20 loosened up nicely after about 15-15min flights in my 79" Decathlon. It now turns that same 17x6 at about 8300rpm. My DLE turns it 8500, with slightly less time on it at this point, so as mentioned, slight power edge to the DLE. Both start, run, and transition nicely after a little tuning. I'd buy either again...

Jonx15

Thanks everyone for the replys...
I ended up ordering the DLE from valley view.. There was only a 24 dollar difference after shipping between the two.
They also give you a free NGK plug with the DLE where tower doesn't.
Both engines had 2 year warrantys..
I have another plane I may swap to gas and will probably try the vvrc 20 out on..

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Looking for some opinions. As some of you know I have a ton of gasser experience but none with the smaller engines. I have always loved the looks of the Reed Falcon biplane that won the 1988 TOC. Circus Hobbies kitted a smaller version with a span of 54" and about 1000 sq in. and a flying weight of 8.5 lbs. I'm trying to figure out what to power it with. My first choice would be a little gasser. Here is where my question arises. Would a 20cc DLE or VV give me unlimited vertical? My first impression is no and maybe I should go glow but I hate the mess. Any suggestions?

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

If you can keep a 20cc plane under 10lbs, it will have unlimited vertical. At 9lbs it will be able to accelerate noticeably while doing that. -Al

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Thanks Al, that's what I was hoping for but when I read that guys are running 16x6 props I got a little skeptical. My first thought was YS 115 that I know will do a 16x10 at close to 10K but expensive to operate and glow always ends up ruining a monokoted airplane eventually. What would you think the best available prop?

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

All around best prop on the DLE or VV 20 would be a 17-6. A 16-6 would be way under size. Like most gassers compared to glo, you can usually go up in diameter and take advantage of the larger prop disc.

Indiomike

My Feedback: (5)

A lot depends on your definition of "unlimited vertical". If you mean will it take a 10 lb plane straight up until it is out of sight, I would say no. In my opinion you need about 1 1/2 thrust to weight ratio to get anywhere near what we commonly refer to as unlimited vertical. In other words you would need an engine that produces about 15 lbs of thrust to take a 10 lb plane straight up in sort of unlimited fashion. Even then, there is a limit to being "unlimited".

These engines at best produce around 14 lbs of thrust (look at the figures given by JediJody in the DLE20 thread). If you could build your plane at about 9 lbs you would be getting very good vertical but 10 lbs would be marginal. Also consider that Jody's engines are probably well broken in and tuned perfectly.

Again, a lot depends on what you mean by unlimited vertical. You need more thrust than weight to pull an airplane straight up out of a hover. Ten lbs of thrust won't pull a 10 lb plane up out of a hover. If your plane is pushing the 10 lb mark you may want to consider a DLE30 instead. I've got a DLE55 in an Aeroworks 35cc Extra 260. That's about 31 lbs of thrust in a 15 lb plane and that sucker will go straight up for as far as I would dare to take it.
IMO
Indiomike

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Betting SRT could figure out how to break in and tune a 20 pretty easily. 17x6 and 16x8 both work really well in my experience (keep it under 85-8700 on the ground). Countless hours spent flying 20cc powered 70" Revolvers between 9.5 and 10.5lbs (depending on how many times they've been repaired!), and if I'm not allowed to say "unlimited" (not going to argue the point), how about I just say you'll be very happy with the vertical performance at 10lbs? I do have to agree about pulling out of a hover, you'll need to slide out of one of those into a knife edge or something. You're not going to come crashing to the ground exiting one for sure.... not because of power anyway. :^)

9 lbs though, should have an even bigger grin when it comes to vertical, and anything under that is getting into 3D country....

Bottom line, I agree with your thought. A 20cc gasser would be a great choice for that plane. Betting you'd really enjoy it! -Al

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

Shawn call me about that reed falcon ASAP.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

I'm going to have to give this some more thought. At 14 lbs of thrust and 8 lbs flying weight I may come up a bit short. I do realize that those numbers sound really good but I am more used to flying airplanes that have a little better then 2:1 power to weight. I may have to take a look at a slightly larger engine. It looks like the next jump up would be 35cc. That would bring the airplane weight up to 9 lbs which is perfectly within reason as most modern pattern airplanes are between 875 to 950 sq in and come in at between 10.5 and 11 lbs. at this point I'm leaning towards DA 35 and a 3 blade prop.

Indiomike

My Feedback: (5)

I would agree with you if you really want impressive vertical performance. My Aeroworks plane with the DLE55 is a 2 to 1 power to weight ratio and it is very impressive (31 lbs of thrust to a 15 lb plane). Sure, the DLE20 will fly an 8 lb plane quite nicely but to get to awesome performance you will be happier with a 2 to 1 ratio.

Indiomike

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

That's what I am thinking too Mike. My Extra weighs around 39 lbs and has approx 90 lbs of thrust behind it. That's the kind of performance I am looking for. I once built a Lanier 33% Laser and got it down to just over 15 lbs with a DA 50. It was great fun to fly but still lacked enough power to be comfortable flying the IMAC unlimited sequence at the time. There was a vertical 1 1/4 negative snap roll and it just didn't have the pull to maintain its line. The DA and DLE 35 engines are only 6 oz heavier then the 20 add in the larger prop and a little fuel and it's still less then a 1 pound gain. Put dual elevator servos in the tail and it should all be good. Now I just have to decide if the DA runs that much better then a DLE to justify the price difference. That could be a 10 page thread alone. LOL

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Oh crap. I didn't know you were looking for that kind of performance....

Indiomike

My Feedback: (5)

I think 11 out of 10 people would pick DA over DLE except for the cost difference. It's like steak versus hamburger. If money was no object I would buy DA but unfortunately that is not the case. For the flying I do, DLE and ValleyView engines get the job done.

I don't know why but the term "unlimited vertical" sort of bugs me the way most people use it in our hobby. There are definite limits to how vertical we can go with our engines. We are limited by how high we can see the plane and how high we can legally fly by FAA regulations. The engine has a ceiling limit to where it simply runs out of power. None of those fall under the term "unlimited". It's all limited in some fashion or another.

If you can put your plane in a vertical climb and accelerate, you have all the performance you'll ever need for any practical purpose. That would about fit the term "unlimited vertical". Maybe I've seen too many guys claim their plane has unlimited vertical and then see it slow down like a car climbing a steep hill when they take it straight up. Nowhere near what they claim. Excuse my rant. If you go with 2 to 1 ratio power to weight ratio you will be happy I'm quite sure.

Mike

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

Not sure, but maybe the RCGF beam mount 26cc would be an option??

AV8TOR

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Speedracer, also keep in mind it is hard to compare the vertical performance of a larger airplane to a smaller one even if they have the same thrust to weight ratio. At the same ratio, the larger one will win the vertical drag race every time. Its just a matter of that larger prop being much more efficient than the smaller one, same as the airframe is more efficient, etc.

You're use to the performance so I believe you would be horribly disappointed in the performance of any 20 sized engine in that biplane. Frankly, I doubt that you will be overly pleased with a 35 as drag will eat up some of that expected performance. Once spoiled by the performance of larger airplanes, it is very hard to achieve the same level of performance when downsizing. Even if the thrust is there it still has a very different feel to achieve the same results.

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

Well, that's true. But then there is the scale effect on appearance. A small airplane just looks like it's going faster.

The only R/C glow plane I have left is my Twist .40 with an old but great running Fox .78 on it. You come by at around half throttle, pull to the vertical and nail full throttle and it looks like the airplane is literally yanked upwards accelerating.

I really agree though that the OP would not be happy with a 20cc engine on that airplane at all.

AV8TOR

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Thinking the same thing. It's a bored and stroked beam mount 20, so footprint the same. Wish there was more feed back on it though. FWIW, BP has posted the specs for the OLD 26cc radial mounted (pre DLE) engine for the new 26cc beam mount. If you're interested, you need to look at the factory specs.