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store gas engine

Old 05-08-2016, 04:15 PM
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Stick 40
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Default store gas engine

I need to store a gas engine, not sure how long it will be stored.

just wondered what is the best way?

sticks
Old 05-09-2016, 06:22 AM
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Gizmo-RCU
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Short term I leave mine "wet", with gas in the carb. (over the winter) Long term I run the gas out (dry). A dry carb may well require some attention if left for long term, if it starts, keep it running and it may well free up and run as before! I have several
Saws like that.
Old 05-09-2016, 12:48 PM
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av8tor1977
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If it might get stored for a long time, I would empty the fuel out of the carb and shoot some WD-40 into all the carb orifices. Then plan on replacing the fuel pump and regulator diaphragms when you next use it. As for the engine, I would dribble some automatic transmission fluid into the carb throat and spark plug hole. Stick the plug back in and flip the engine over numerous times to disperse the ATF inside. If you're anal like me, do this twice. I have gas and glow engines that I have treated like this that are 30 years old, have never been apart, and run like new.

Oh, then wrap the engine in clean rags, (old T shirts work great), then put it in a box and tape it shut. Store somewhere dry. Done deal.

AV8TOR

Last edited by av8tor1977; 05-09-2016 at 02:59 PM.
Old 05-09-2016, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Stick 40 View Post
I need to store a gas engine, not sure how long it will be stored.

just wondered what is the best way?

sticks
I run Coleman's camp fuel (naptha) mixed with Klotz oil in my ECDI Zenoah G23, and it runs and smells great (I can't stand the smell of ethanol laced gasoline). It only is about 50 octane, so some may say that is too low for their high performance DA and DL et al gassers. Since Coleman's does not go bad (think white gasoline used in outboard engines) and does not have ethanol in it, it does not attack the carb diaphragms or any other parts of our engines, I just leave it in the tank for storage. Works well for me.

Some DE/DA engine owners use the Coleman's fuel (with oil per spec) for the last run of the day or season. Not to fly, but just to purge the engine and fuel system of regular gasoline. Then they just leave the system filled with it. Another option for running and storage is AVGAS. Since AVGAS is expected to stay in the AC's tanks for long periods of time, and does not have ethanol. it is also stable and can be left in our engines and tanks during storage. Like naptha, AVGAS also smells good.

"Your results may vary"
Old 05-09-2016, 06:09 PM
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Actually I forgot to say I only use ethanol free gas, available at a number of local stations locally! All my saws, etc. are only used with that.
Old 05-09-2016, 09:03 PM
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av8tor1977
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Originally Posted by spaceworm View Post
I run Coleman's camp fuel (naptha) mixed with Klotz oil in my ECDI Zenoah G23, and it runs and smells great (I can't stand the smell of ethanol laced gasoline). It only is about 50 octane, so some may say that is too low for their high performance DA and DL et al gassers. Since Coleman's does not go bad (think white gasoline used in outboard engines) and does not have ethanol in it, it does not attack the carb diaphragms or any other parts of our engines, I just leave it in the tank for storage. Works well for me.

Some DE/DA engine owners use the Coleman's fuel (with oil per spec) for the last run of the day or season. Not to fly, but just to purge the engine and fuel system of regular gasoline. Then they just leave the system filled with it. Another option for running and storage is AVGAS. Since AVGAS is expected to stay in the AC's tanks for long periods of time, and does not have ethanol. it is also stable and can be left in our engines and tanks during storage. Like naptha, AVGAS also smells good.

"Your results may vary"
I also use Coleman camp fuel along with some extra oil in my engines for short term storage. Up to around 6 months. It doesn't seem to allow the diaphragms in the carb to deteriorate. However, I would never actually fly with it due to the very low octane plus the fact that it makes an engine run hotter.

I remove the flight fuel, add about half a tank of the "storage" fuel, start and run the engine at varying throttle settings, then run it at full throttle and choke it to kill it. I then leave the half tank of storage fuel in the tank, and cap off the fuel tank vent line. Doing this has kept my diaphragms and fuel lines nice and supple indefinitely.

(Just my "two cents worth.....)

AV8TOR
Old 05-10-2016, 03:10 AM
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ahicks
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Mine are treated like my lawn equipment, some of which is getting pretty old. I don't do a darn thing....

I will say though, that IMHO, your oil selection plays a big part here. Both in the way it coats the engine internals providing corrosion protection, AND the way it provides fuel stabilization for at least a year.

6 months is nothing here.... as a snowbird, much of my "stuff" is routinely stored for 6 months or better as I cycle back and forth between Mi and Fl. Hard starting, rotted diaphragms, etc. would be anything but routine....
Old 05-10-2016, 11:19 AM
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Spacworm, Is Coleman camp fuel really nothing but naptha? Dan.
Old 05-10-2016, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by All Day Dan View Post
Spacworm, Is Coleman camp fuel really nothing but naptha? Dan.
That is my understanding, but I have not actually read the MDS. I think I will that next. I used it in my Zippo cigarette lighter back in the early eighties when I smoked. But since it's primary purpose is for camp lanterns and stoves, there is no lubricant or anything that will not completely burn without any smoke or residue. Now that you mention naptha, I will see if I can buy it for less than Wally World sells Coleman's fuel.
Old 05-10-2016, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by All Day Dan View Post
Spacworm, Is Coleman camp fuel really nothing but naptha? Dan.
You piqued my interest, so I looked up "naptha" here on RCU. I found this (and a lot more) good read: [h=2]"RE: naptha - Why did Maynard Hill use it to cross the Atlantic?" Copy this in to the RCU search engine and enjoy the results, I did.[/h]Sincerely, Richard
Old 05-11-2016, 03:48 PM
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All Day Dan
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That RCU thread told me more than I needed.
I got this from the msds sheet. Is it naptha? Dan.

INGREDIENT NAME, CAS #, EXPOSURE LIMITS, PERCENT BY VOLUME
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hydrotreated Light Distillate, CAS # 68410-97-9, OSHA-500 ppm, 100.0
This product contains:
*Cyclohexane, CAS # 110-82-7,
OSHA-300 ppm, ACGIH-300 ppm
*Nonane, CAS # 111-84-2, ACGIH-200 ppm
*Octane, CAS # 111-65-9, OSHA-400 ppm, ACGIH-300 ppm
*Heptane, CAS # 142-82-5, OSHA-500 ppm, ACGIH-400 ppm
*Pentane, CAS # 109-66-0, OSHA-1000 ppm, ACGIH-600 ppm
Old 05-12-2016, 04:15 AM
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spaceworm
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Originally Posted by All Day Dan View Post
That RCU thread told me more than I needed.
I got this from the msds sheet. Is it naptha? Dan.

INGREDIENT NAME, CAS #, EXPOSURE LIMITS, PERCENT BY VOLUME
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hydrotreated Light Distillate, CAS # 68410-97-9, OSHA-500 ppm, 100.0
This product contains:
*Cyclohexane, CAS # 110-82-7,
OSHA-300 ppm, ACGIH-300 ppm
*Nonane, CAS # 111-84-2, ACGIH-200 ppm
*Octane, CAS # 111-65-9, OSHA-400 ppm, ACGIH-300 ppm
*Heptane, CAS # 142-82-5, OSHA-500 ppm, ACGIH-400 ppm
*Pentane, CAS # 109-66-0, OSHA-1000 ppm, ACGIH-600 ppm
Apparently there are many formulations of "naptha". What MSDS were you looking at?

Sincerely, Richard
Old 05-12-2016, 06:51 AM
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I got it from the Coleman website..Dan.
Old 05-19-2016, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by spaceworm View Post
Apparently there are many formulations of "naptha". What MSDS were you looking at?

Sincerely, Richard
Naphtha, or more precisely, Varnish Makers and Painters Naphtha, VM&P Naphtha, is a mixture of fairly volatile solvents, mostly parafins, a few olefins and aromatics. That's what's used to thin oil based paints. It dries without residue and can be used in different applications besides paint thinning. Example, as a lubricant for Teflon paste extrusion. It has even been used in certain medical applications because of its residue free finish.

It burns clean having similar power potential to isooctane. Hence the reports of how well it does in plane engines. Octane is rather low but our engines are not compressed enough to cause pre or post ignition or detonation. Nevertheless, in very hot conditions it could cause some vapor locking.x

It's very volatile, more so than gasoline. It has a flash point lower than 100 degrees which means there are enough vapors around to support ignition at relatively low temp (around 60F)

Last edited by MTK; 05-19-2016 at 07:27 PM.
Old 05-19-2016, 09:34 PM
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It is not really that our engines are not "compressed enough". In fact, depending on the engine, our effective compression ratios can be quite high. What tends to preclude pre-detonation in our engines is the small bore size, and the relatively high rpms they run at which are not usually conducive to pre-detonation.

But if you lug even a small bore engine down enough with too much load, get it hot, with maybe a bit of a lean mixture and perhaps the timing a bit too advanced and you will experience detonation and a fried engine just like the bigger engines, if your fuel isn't up to the task of resisting detonation via having a high enough octane rating.

AV8TOR

Last edited by av8tor1977; 05-19-2016 at 09:38 PM.
Old 05-27-2016, 09:46 AM
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I just put in some light machine oil in the cylinder through the exhaust port, then turn the engine over several times manually. I dont usually do anything about the carb other than close off the choke. I tie the engine up in a couple of overlapping plastic bags, then put in the original box and tape shut. Anything wrong with doing this? My flying season is just about done now.

Oh, and when I reinstall the engine after the off-season, I usually take off the side plate and the carb and flush it with the fuel pump. I use motul or amsoil

Ameyam
Old 06-13-2016, 01:40 AM
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I had no idea people went to such lengths, I just leave mine on the rack, and pull it out when needed again.
We don't have ethanol blended petrol here, you have to seek it out if stupid enough to want it.
Old 06-13-2016, 05:19 AM
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I quit using Coleman fuel when it got to $10/gal
Old 06-13-2016, 05:37 AM
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[QUOTE=dirtybird;12223891]I quit using Coleman fuel when it got to $10/gal[/QUOTE

I just bought a gallon of Wally World camp fuel for $7.94.
Old 06-21-2016, 08:07 PM
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Best to use puregas. Go to the website & read about it. It has a find station feature that works great. I have been using it for 6 years now. Give it a try, your engines will run great. Best storage fuel also...allow the carb to stay wet. Instant starts 6 months later ! Purgas.org see bottom of post........
Old 06-21-2016, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by captinjohn View Post
Best to use puregas. Go to the website & read about it. It has a find station feature that works great. I have been using it for 6 years now. Give it a try, your engines will run great. Best storage fuel also...allow the carb to stay wet. Instant starts 6 months later ! Purgas.org see bottom of post........
In New Jersey no gas stations carry puregas. When i move to sunny FLA next year, life will be good.

In the meantime, I continue to use Avgas 100LL. It works just fine in every model engine I've tried
Old 06-23-2016, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by captinjohn View Post
Best to use puregas. Go to the website & read about it. It has a find station feature that works great. I have been using it for 6 years now. Give it a try, your engines will run great. Best storage fuel also...allow the carb to stay wet. Instant starts 6 months later ! Purgas.org see bottom of post........
What do you mean by Puregas, is that just gas that is ethanol free. I have never hear gas called Pure gas.

sticks
Old 06-23-2016, 04:33 PM
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Yup, just ethanol free gas with a fancy name and website.
Old 06-23-2016, 06:48 PM
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Run it out of fuel and throw it in the closet. Make sure it is in a semi climate controlled atmosphere. Will run fine after 5-10 years storage.
Old 06-23-2016, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Truckracer View Post
Yup, just ethanol free gas with a fancy name and website.
More to it than "just ethanol free" Pump gas is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline

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