Hi Roger,

I have talked to Bill O. about this and tried to explain to him that this was a confusing message. They do offer the service described, but that has nothing to do with the new engines they build and sell. It's a separate service they perform.

I am going to use your post as additional proof to him that he has to change the messaging on his site as soon as possible. I know that they are working on a whole new site, but I think they're having a hard time getting it done with all the day-to-day delivery pressures they face.

Your right he should change it, because it is confusing.
I hear they are great engines though......

>>Your right he should change it, because it is confusing.

Definitely. My first impression after looking at the site was that they were just another conversion. If it wasn't for an advocate I was talking to that had owned them, I wouldn't have given them another look.

>>I hear they are great engines though......

I can only speak from the one I owned, and it definitely was my favorite gas engine to date.

Gentlemen what we have here is a complete and total breakdown in communication.... I have mentioned to those in the know numerous times in the past most if not all of the following...

Taurus Engines utilizes Sachs and Husky cylinder assemblies as well as custom piston configurations.

Taurus Engines does not use a Sachs Crank. The Taurus crank is a two piece unit. Utilizes "expensive" single row high rpm bearings, not the standard industrial units offered in nearly every other engine. The 6202's as referenced by RCIgnition can be had for less than $10.00 anywhere and are typically installed in electric motor's, pumps, alternators and other industrial applications. These are not considered precision bearings I'm using the 6202's as an example, typically there are various bearings utilized of the same caliber and or quality. A "Precision Bearing" is also a HYPE advertisement used by many. A true description of the bearing, it's part number and origin will separate the boys from the girls.

Taurus Engines buys there components direct from the manufacturer's, after all they are an OEM company. [Original equipment manufacturer, you know like GM and Ford]

Taurus Engines are anything but a chainsaw conversion... As mentioned previously they build custom engines with a proprietary lower end utilizing various cylinders assemblies and other OEM parts. It's like building any other hi-performance engine, the right combination of parts, attention to clearances and balance factors that work coupled with something other than a standard CD Ignition will provide the end user a superior product and that is exactly what Tauras Engine's has done... Like Ralph said it's not rocket science, just attention to details... Much like the difference between your model and a TOC competitor's... Taurus Engines does not mass produce their product every engine's components are either CNC'd from billet aluminum and or purchased outright and are hand fitted, assembled and test run.

Lastly The Taurus Engine is EXACTLY what it is described as, nothing more and nothing less. There are many engines manufactured that are "SIMILAR" and that is where the line is crossed... I know of no other engine's that are directly comparable to Taurus... If you look into each and every engine offered and make a direct comparison you'll understand my statement...

We should focus on the performance of the motor! That, in the long run will determine the longevity of the manufacturer.

I recently replaced my big dollar bme twin with a conversion. It was a chainsaw in a prior life and was purchased for for $25. The conversion weighed .5lb less than the bme and made all the difference in way the plane flew. Now I don't have the "WOW" factor, as in WOW, that must of cost a lot of money!

The source of the parts is irrelevant IMO.

Need a little advice on the Taurus TS 52

Will my Brison 3.2 pitts muffler fit on the Taurus TS 52 engine?
Thanks in advance,

Brison and Taurus utilize the the Sachs/Mahle cylinder casting on their 3.2's. So yes your muffler should be fine...

There is some consideration for the age of the cylinder casting's, I was told by Dave at Mac's Products that my 3.7 Taurus Engine[Sachs cylinder] was of the newer vintage stuff. Not sure if there is an old and or newer 3.2 casting. The Taurus 2.6 and 3.2 have the same size exhaust flange. Obviously the Taurus would be of the newer components offered to date.

Thank you Michael for the reply.

Hi sanjoh,

>>We should focus on the performance of the motor! That, in the long run will determine the longevity of the manufacturer.

I certainly agree that performance is important, but I don't agree that that is the critical element that will ensure the longevity of a manufacturer. It is only one factor in the success of an engine. Quality of the engine and customer support are two more equally critical factors.

>>The source of the parts is irrelevant IMO.

I also disagree with this statement. The quality of the part, precision of the machining, and care in assembling are all factors that make a better motor, whether in cars, planes, or R/C gas engines.

A motor that is part of a mass-production process is by necessity built with "wide" tolerances. A semi-custom built motor, such as the Taurus, can be assembled with higher quality parts, much more care, and closer tolerances. The result is a stronger running and longer lasting motor.

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your opinion.

My perspective on the performance of an engine: Without it, the quality and customer service make no difference.



The performance of an engine is about measurement and numbers. I don't mind if the parts come from a hay bailer, lawn mower or other implement. An example: Mr. Smith has a new motor that spins a 22x10 at 8000rpms, weighs 2.5 lbs, has a great transition, idles forever and only costs $150, is guarnteed to last 2000hrs.(as long as we don't crash it). Now the engine was desiged to blow snow and pick rocks out of the farmers field. Would someone turn this motor down because its did not begine life with RC in mind?

Hi sanjoh,

>>My perspective on the performance of an engine: Without it, the quality and customer service make no difference.

Of course, but likewise, an engine that has performance and doesn't have customer service or quality also has little value(to me).

In general, I get your point, and I agree if an engine had all the right qualities and began life as a snow blower, I wouldn't care either....but the likelihood of that is very, very, very small, and that's my point. High-performance engines, are high-performance for a reason, not by accident. It takes great care in the selection of parts, machining of those parts, and precision assembly of those parts, to come up with a superior engine.

I called Taurus today.....nobody home.

I want to know the price of this engine and if it comes with a muffler or can I buy the engine without the muffler?

I have been reading the above post about their customer service.
I hope someone will be home if I decide to purchase the engine from them and need some work done at a later date.

I did leave my phone# and name on their machine.

So do anybody have the price of this engine?

Thanks,

Hi CUB1,

I believe the price of a TS-52 is $559 with the mount and ignition, but without a muffler.

They'll call you back soon. They're good about that.

Well been away for awhile. But I see the battle rages on about the Taurus. Interesting, if memory serves me correctly, there is a note on the taurus site that says info. where you can request pricing, technical even pictures and any other info needed via e-mail. I know the reason some phones calls are not answered some time. "they will not stop running any engine for a phone call that they can return later". someone asked to compare to a fox.
major difference is the fully supported crank not a cantilever style crank as used in most other makes. I also believe that Taurus was the first to offer a limited 3 year warranty. And their web site sucks. But the engines kick butt.

Actually, ZDZ was the first to offer a 3 year warranty. and the ZDZ is the only gas engine being produce today that only uses their inhouse manufactured parts except the carburator and bearings. The engines are designed from the ground up with no commercial engine parts in them. So why are all the others so expensive if they can use mass produced parts as compared to ZDZ...

Saw a ZDZ 80 at the field sunday. What a great engine. It is smoother than a smaller Brison 3.2. Very pretty and VERY powerful. I didn't get to tach it but it was in a 1/3rd scale Laser and it was full 3D capable. I think the breakin prop was a 26X8.

Very nice plane and engine Lou.

Brian

KB1DTB

Hi Roger,

Lot's of reasons. Mostly economy of scale. First, ZDZ's aren't made in the US; exchange rates, labor costs, etc. all help the ZDZ's cost. Secondly, they are mass-produced engines, Taurus' are not, and that's one of the reason's Taurus is able to control the tolerances and consistantly produce engines of extremely high quality. I know this opens the same can of worms again about quality, and relative power. First I will say that I really like ZDZ's, and for specific applications I wouldn't hesitate to own one, as a matter of fact I have a ZDZ80 for a H9 Cap, but after owning both, my opinion is that Taurus' are of higher quality than the ZDZ's and specifically with the TS-42 vs ZDZ40, the Taurus has measurably more power.

This all makes sense. If someone can take the time to hand build a well designed engine with closely controlled tolerances, and individually test and tune that motor, it is likely to come out superior in smoothness and power to other motors that were not made this way....even if on paper the other motor has a more "advanced" design, such as the ZDZ's rotary valve multi-port design would appear to have.

BPRYOR,

Have you done a head to head comparison of the ZDZ 40 and the Taurus 42?

If so what were the findings regarding specific props and rpms?

And then vibration levels at varying speeds?

Thanks,

Brian

Hi Brian,

I have gathered RPM numbers on both engines with equivilent props, but not on the same day at the same time, but with that said, the data that I have gathered and others with the same prop and similar altitudes, there appears to be a clear trend. It would be nice to have 20 cases for each, but it's hard to come by reliable numbers and most people either don't post them, or post them incompletely, which makes them pretty much impossible to compare.

The Taurus' all had the pitts-style muffler suppled by Taurus. The ZDZ's also had pitts-style exhaust except as noted.

Taurus 2.6:

1 - New with Zinger Pro 22X8 7100-7200 RPM - 3 sources
2 - Broken in with Mejzlik 20X10 8200 RPM - 1 source

ZDZ40:

1 - New with Zinger Pro 22X8 6600-6800 RPM - 2 sources
2 - Broken in w/ Zinger Pro 22X8 6800-7000 RPM - 2 sources
3 - Broken in with tuned can and ZP 22X8 7200 RPM - 1 source(tuned can at 6000 ft altitude)
4 - Broken in with Mejzlik 20X10 7400 RPM - 1 source(Amelung - tuned can)

(I also have numbers for the Taurus and ZDZ on several other props, but since I didn't have equivilent numbers for both on the same props, I didn't post them here)

It would be great if anyone else has numbers for either of these engines if they would post them....better yet would be numbers from back-to-back testing on the same day with the same prop and with well broken in engines as CAPtain232 is planning on doing with the Taurus TS-52 and BME 50.

Bill,
I can only comment on the ZDZ 40 that I have. On the bench with half a gallon of gas throught it, running my own cut prop which is a copy of the Zinger Pro 20 x 10 , I was getting 7100 rpm, if this helps.
The only other case in point is a friend of mine that was using a 3W75 and was in need of another engine, so I told him to look into the ZDZ 80 (much cheaper on the pocket book), So reluctantly, he bought one.
He called me today to tell me he so impressed with it that he is selling his 3W75 for another ZDZ 80.
As far as longevity, BME, ZDZ, Taurus, 3W, DA, if run properly will last a very long time. So it does come down to performance and price. ZDZ wins hands down on this factor.

BMW are known to be very good engines and very expensive, but on the other hand a very ordinary Sunfire with its little 4 banger will get easily 200,000 miles out of it.

Roger, don't know when ZDZ published their 3 year warranty. But the background of the now called Taurus is 8 years of custom engine building. The Taurus name came to the forefront 4 years ago.Hence 3 year warranty. So what, right!. Well letssee I take us currency to Canada I get a !-1/2 more Canadian. Wonder what the exchange rate and labor rates are in ZDZ country. And are you positive ZDZ makes all their own parts. I just saw a new 3W 100 with made in Italy imbossed on the cylinders. I believe 3W says they make all their own parts too. I find that interesting.
Oh well who really cares anyway.
FOrgot who said something about conversions and mentioned Zenoah.
The G38,G62, G45 are actually converted engines. Check out Red Max by Komatzu.. Just a point.

Hi Roger,

The numbers on your prop sound consistant with my other numbers. My Taurus 2.6 turned a Zinger Pro 20X10 at 7350 when new.

>>So it does come down to performance and price. ZDZ wins hands down on this factor.

Did you mean performance vs. price? If so, I would have to agree....but not performance and price. To me the extra performance can be worth the extra money depending on the application. On a H9 Taylorcraft it wouldn't make any difference, but on a AW 29% Edge, I would pay the extra money for the power alone, but another big factor you didn't mention is smoothness, and from my subjective analysis, the Taurus is the smoothest of any of the small singles.

If you think "converted chainsaw" doesn't sound as good as "Made for airplanes only", so be it...The G38 was the Green Machine model 7200 chain saw, no longer made.
The G45 cylinder is from a chain saw, the case is made just for model planes, that's why it says Toni Clark on the case..
The G62 uses the chain saw cylinder and a case made for model planes..The ignition rotor and coils on the G45 and G62 are the same, not from any chain saw..The G23 uses the same parts, with a smaller bore in the rotor...
The Walbro HDA 48 carb on the 45 and 62 is used only for the airplane engines..
The crankshafts on the 45 and 62 are airplane only, larger diameter shafts on the tapered ends
than on the chain saws..
The chain saws can be converted, but don't look anything like the airplane engines.
I GUESS IF THESE ARE CONVERSIONS, SO ARE ALL THE OTHERS THAT USE CHAINSAW CYLINDERS...
So what ?? The converted chainsaws are lighter than the airplane engines, about 4 lbs for a 62cc with CD ignition....
If the chainsaws didn't cost so much there would be more "conversions"..It's cheaper to CNC a case from aluminum than it is to buy a magnesium alloy case for a chainsaw, and it can be polished or anodized to look better..Anodize is cheap, maybe $100.00 for 60 or more pieces...Been There..The guys on the night shift used to anodize my parts for a few 12 packs of MGD...
To compare the weight of a Zenoah it must be set up with a CD ignition like all the rest..Makes a big difference...An ignition module weighs about 4 oz, much lighter than the stock rotor and coils..Usually a pound or more....
Just my $.02....
Zenoah engines would be cheaper if a certain distributor didn't have an exclusive....

Bill,
You make some good points.
I didn't necessarily mean ZDZ 40 versus Taurus 42, since I don't have a Taurus to compare, but I did compare directly perfomance and price between the BME 44 and the ZDZ 40. The ZDZ being a bit smaller then the BME still more power, ran smoother was lighter, and a lot cheaper.
Please don't get me wrong, I am not bashing any other engines out there. I simply said that the ZDZ engines where a lot cheaper with everything made inhouse while the others are using a lot of mass produced (aka cheaper) parts so there engine should be cheaper.
Even if everone says the labor is cheaper in the Czech Republic, so bit it, but the bottom line is the engine is cheaper bar none. And the performance is right up there, just check the other threades on ZDZ.

Hi Roger,

>>Please don't get me wrong, I am not bashing any other engines out there.

I in no way thought you were, and neither am I. Point, counter-point. Everyone's opinion is more than welcome and very appreciated...at least by me. My opinion is based on my actual experience with many engines and I try to qualify it that way. I agree that the ZDZ is an excellent motor, and a great value. My only points are that, IMHO, from my personal experiences, if price is not the driving factor, then you can get a measurably more powerful, and smoother engine in the Taurus....with excellent quality, a long warranty, and great customer service.

The Taurus is not the only engine to own. As I've said, I've owned many brands, including ZDZ, and will continue to do so. The Taurus is just up at the top of my list for applications where it fits, and he ZDZ is right up there too.

On Ralph's point as to whether we call them conversions or not, it doesn't bother me if someone wants to call Taurus' conversions(though personally I don't think they fit the definition), it's the qualities of the motors that I've mentioned that I believe make it superior to the others, no matter what its origin, or where some of the parts come from.