Two syncrospark units on one sensor
03-22-2004 | 10:02 AM
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From: San Tan Valley,
AZ
Two syncrospark units on one sensor
The ignition module on my 44cc twin died.
I don't want to put another $200 in that engine but I have two C&H synchrospark units for an alternate fireing twin I have.
Has anyone ever tried to run two ignition units from one sensor?
I don't want to put another $200 in that engine but I have two C&H synchrospark units for an alternate fireing twin I have.
Has anyone ever tried to run two ignition units from one sensor?
03-22-2004 | 06:43 PM
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From: Locust Grove,
GA
RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
I am curious if you can "Y" the spark plug wire so that the spark goes to both plugs?
ORIGINAL: dirtybird
The ignition module on my 44cc twin died.
I don't want to put another $200 in that engine but I have two C&H synchrospark units for an alternate fireing twin I have.
Has anyone ever tried to run two ignition units from one sensor?
The ignition module on my 44cc twin died.
I don't want to put another $200 in that engine but I have two C&H synchrospark units for an alternate fireing twin I have.
Has anyone ever tried to run two ignition units from one sensor?
03-22-2004 | 08:00 PM
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RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
ORIGINAL: Geistware
I am curious if you can "Y" the spark plug wire so that the spark goes to both plugs?
I am curious if you can "Y" the spark plug wire so that the spark goes to both plugs?
only prob is that the spark might decide that the hall sensor is an easier path to ground. maybe a plastic hub could be used and this wouldn't be a problem.
dave
03-23-2004 | 10:35 AM
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From: San Tan Valley,
AZ
RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
ORIGINAL: ZAGNUT
no...but it could be set up so that one plug terminal gets juice from the HT lead and the other plug terminal is connected to ground.
only prob is that the spark might decide that the hall sensor is an easier path to ground. maybe a plastic hub could be used and this wouldn't be a problem.
dave
ORIGINAL: Geistware
I am curious if you can "Y" the spark plug wire so that the spark goes to both plugs?
I am curious if you can "Y" the spark plug wire so that the spark goes to both plugs?
only prob is that the spark might decide that the hall sensor is an easier path to ground. maybe a plastic hub could be used and this wouldn't be a problem.
dave
But then the engine would have to be isolated from ground. Has anyone tried this? It would save a coil and maybe make it cheaper.
03-23-2004 | 10:44 AM
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From: Hammond,
IN
RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
To run two plugs in series, the center of the high tension lead goes to the center electrode of one spark plug. The ground wire of the high tension lead goes to the center electrode of the other spark.
03-23-2004 | 12:37 PM
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From: San Tan Valley,
AZ
RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
ORIGINAL: Diablo-RCU
To run two plugs in series, the center of the high tension lead goes to the center electrode of one spark plug. The ground wire of the high tension lead goes to the center electrode of the other spark.
To run two plugs in series, the center of the high tension lead goes to the center electrode of one spark plug. The ground wire of the high tension lead goes to the center electrode of the other spark.
03-23-2004 | 01:14 PM
#13
RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
Heavenly Days!
Each plug would have to arc of course - but this seems to me like the old air gap principle put to an absurd limit.
One popular ignition does have an air gap in the cap ( seen it) and it works very well - (DA)
so the system does have merit---
I tested a 4 plug 3W /dual ignition twin -- which as I recall used one senser--
The engine was , in my book. rather anemic. tho the ignition in something which really gobbles fuel could really help thing go ---
like a rail?
Each plug would have to arc of course - but this seems to me like the old air gap principle put to an absurd limit.
One popular ignition does have an air gap in the cap ( seen it) and it works very well - (DA)
so the system does have merit---
I tested a 4 plug 3W /dual ignition twin -- which as I recall used one senser--
The engine was , in my book. rather anemic. tho the ignition in something which really gobbles fuel could really help thing go ---
like a rail?
03-23-2004 | 02:06 PM
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RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
I think the air gap you see in the DA wire is where the little spring contacts the top of the spark plug....
I just talked to Dave, it WILL work with an air gap if the little spring got lost..An air gap is NOT there by design.....
I just talked to Dave, it WILL work with an air gap if the little spring got lost..An air gap is NOT there by design.....
03-23-2004 | 03:03 PM
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RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
ORIGINAL: hobbsy
If you do it that way you're turning the entire ignition system into a noise transmitter.
If you do it that way you're turning the entire ignition system into a noise transmitter.
i would set it up like this:
two regular high tension leads, one from the coil to the first plug and another from the second plug to the ignition box's ground. then cover both leads with a braided shield and metal cap in the standard fashion except that both braids are connected together but are NOT connected to the box in any way.
if you used a very strong magnet you could probably use a very large gap between it and the hall sensor so that the spark wouldn't jump to the sensor's ground.
if i had a twin i would try this before automatically dismissing it.
dave
03-23-2004 | 05:47 PM
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RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
I just got some really strong magnets..They will trigger the hall sensor from about 1/8"..Any ignition that will run an engine will easily jump a 1/8 gap--mine will go at least 5/8...You can't isolate the spark plugs from the engine, they're connected by virtue of being threaded in, so both plugs are automatically grounded...Spark goes to both plugs, jumps the gap on which ever is smaller....May be one, then the other...2 coils connected in parallel will easily spark from ONE circuit and ONE sensor...
03-23-2004 | 09:25 PM
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From: Riverton,
WY
RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
There have been some coils with two leads wound this way. One lead was positive and the other lead was negitive. Of course if one lead came off, both cylinders quit.
03-24-2004 | 12:23 AM
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From: San Tan Valley,
AZ
RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
ORIGINAL: RCIGN1
I just got some really strong magnets..They will trigger the hall sensor from about 1/8"..Any ignition that will run an engine will easily jump a 1/8 gap--mine will go at least 5/8...You can't isolate the spark plugs from the engine, they're connected by virtue of being threaded in, so both plugs are automatically grounded...Spark goes to both plugs, jumps the gap on which ever is smaller....May be one, then the other...2 coils connected in parallel will easily spark from ONE circuit and ONE sensor...
I just got some really strong magnets..They will trigger the hall sensor from about 1/8"..Any ignition that will run an engine will easily jump a 1/8 gap--mine will go at least 5/8...You can't isolate the spark plugs from the engine, they're connected by virtue of being threaded in, so both plugs are automatically grounded...Spark goes to both plugs, jumps the gap on which ever is smaller....May be one, then the other...2 coils connected in parallel will easily spark from ONE circuit and ONE sensor...
The plugs are screwed into the engine but the engine does not have to be connected to the circuit ground. As TKG says the secondary of the coil could be connected to the two spark plug leads, one end to one spark plug and the other end to the other spark plug. It just might be a better way to do it.
03-24-2004 | 01:42 AM
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RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
UHHHH....You CAN NOT run a CD ignition without grounding the circuit to the engine...The spark comes out of the coil...It jumps the gap..The gap is grounded to the engine through the spark plug threads..It now has to get to the ground in the circuit...If the engine is not grounded to the circuit the spark takes the only other path, the Hall sensor, which IS grounded to the circuit..The Hall sensor will NOT last very long with 20,000 volts going through it....[
This is why my ignition in the mount has no ground wire, it's grounded through the RCA jack scrrewed into the mount....If I just run two wires out of the circuit to the battery without grounding the circuit to the engine the Hall switch dies....Been there, so has TKG and any other ignition manufacturer...The C&H ignitions with the Bosch cap and shielded lead ground through the shielded lead and cap..The other C&H ignitions without the cap have a lug on the end of the braid shield that is bolted to the cylinder or clamped to the base of the spark plug with a hose clamp...You lose the ground, the spark goes through the Hall sensor, the engine stops, PERIOD
Now it someone can figure out a way to insulate the spark plug from the cylinder it would work the other way....NOT possible.....
This is why my ignition in the mount has no ground wire, it's grounded through the RCA jack scrrewed into the mount....If I just run two wires out of the circuit to the battery without grounding the circuit to the engine the Hall switch dies....Been there, so has TKG and any other ignition manufacturer...The C&H ignitions with the Bosch cap and shielded lead ground through the shielded lead and cap..The other C&H ignitions without the cap have a lug on the end of the braid shield that is bolted to the cylinder or clamped to the base of the spark plug with a hose clamp...You lose the ground, the spark goes through the Hall sensor, the engine stops, PERIOD
Now it someone can figure out a way to insulate the spark plug from the cylinder it would work the other way....NOT possible.....
03-24-2004 | 07:22 AM
#21
RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
You might take a look in the DA cap setup -
the system does not employ a solid contact from the resistor in the end of the HT lead to the "little spring".
It is a very neat setup-but was a bit of a surprise to me.
the system does not employ a solid contact from the resistor in the end of the HT lead to the "little spring".
It is a very neat setup-but was a bit of a surprise to me.
03-24-2004 | 09:37 AM
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From: San Tan Valley,
AZ
RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
ORIGINAL: RCIGN1
UHHHH....You CAN NOT run a CD ignition without grounding the circuit to the engine...The spark comes out of the coil...It jumps the gap..The gap is grounded to the engine through the spark plug threads..It now has to get to the ground in the circuit...If the engine is not grounded to the circuit the spark takes the only other path, the Hall sensor, which IS grounded to the circuit..The Hall sensor will NOT last very long with 20,000 volts going through it....[
This is why my ignition in the mount has no ground wire, it's grounded through the RCA jack scrrewed into the mount....If I just run two wires out of the circuit to the battery without grounding the circuit to the engine the Hall switch dies....Been there, so has TKG and any other ignition manufacturer...The C&H ignitions with the Bosch cap and shielded lead ground through the shielded lead and cap..The other C&H ignitions without the cap have a lug on the end of the braid shield that is bolted to the cylinder or clamped to the base of the spark plug with a hose clamp...You lose the ground, the spark goes through the Hall sensor, the engine stops, PERIOD
Now it someone can figure out a way to insulate the spark plug from the cylinder it would work the other way....NOT possible.....
UHHHH....You CAN NOT run a CD ignition without grounding the circuit to the engine...The spark comes out of the coil...It jumps the gap..The gap is grounded to the engine through the spark plug threads..It now has to get to the ground in the circuit...If the engine is not grounded to the circuit the spark takes the only other path, the Hall sensor, which IS grounded to the circuit..The Hall sensor will NOT last very long with 20,000 volts going through it....[
This is why my ignition in the mount has no ground wire, it's grounded through the RCA jack scrrewed into the mount....If I just run two wires out of the circuit to the battery without grounding the circuit to the engine the Hall switch dies....Been there, so has TKG and any other ignition manufacturer...The C&H ignitions with the Bosch cap and shielded lead ground through the shielded lead and cap..The other C&H ignitions without the cap have a lug on the end of the braid shield that is bolted to the cylinder or clamped to the base of the spark plug with a hose clamp...You lose the ground, the spark goes through the Hall sensor, the engine stops, PERIOD
Now it someone can figure out a way to insulate the spark plug from the cylinder it would work the other way....NOT possible.....
The coil is a transformer and the secondary can be a complete circuit without being connected to the primary.
The ignition circuit would have the the transformer primary(coil) connected to it and would be completely separate from the engine and the spark plugs. Since the Hall effect device has a magnetic interface it does not have to be connected (grounded)to the engine. Only getting its power from the ignition circuit
I don't know how you would handle the shields though
03-24-2004 | 10:16 AM
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From: Riverton,
WY
RE: Two syncrospark units on one sensor
You have to float the engine from ground, you can NOT use shielding that connects to the ignition. This makes it very rf noisey
The question asked at the beginning was can you use 1 sensor to drive two complete, but seperate ignitions and the answer is yes.
The question asked at the beginning was can you use 1 sensor to drive two complete, but seperate ignitions and the answer is yes.
