PlaneInsane

My Feedback: (5)

Just curious if anyone has ever sent their motor back to Germany for warranty repair? If so, how long did the turnaround take? I'm considering a 3W purchase and would like to know if the turnaround is within a reasonable amount of time. Thank You.

rc bugman

My Feedback: (30)

Hi,

Warranty repair happens at either of the 2 dealers. Gerhard at Aircraft International in NJ and Bobby at Cactus in AZ. I have had great interactions with Gerhard

Elson

PlaneInsane

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks for the reply Elson. I am more interested in those rare instances when neither of the 2 dealers can handle the repair and it has to go back to Germany.

DMcQuinn

My Feedback: (13)

I don't think there is any repair that can't be done by these guys. I have used both Bobby Wilson at Cactus and Gerhard at Aircraft International. I sent my engine on a monday and received it back the next wednesday (9 days). This was just last week. I suspect their business is a little slow at this time of year.

PlaneInsane

My Feedback: (5)

I would think that there are times when the factory wants to inspect and repair a motor that has some manufacturing defect.

2.6mrod

it is impossible to contact 3w direct in germany , we had huge problems with a 3w 106 and no joy with our dealer. in australia


rod

PlaneInsane

My Feedback: (5)

Rod, was the problem finally resolved?

capngriz

My Feedback: (7)

Are these crank problems with the QQ 106? My buddies crank broke in flight and he almost lost his new extra. He sent it to AI and the crank was replaced.

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

Both 3W dealers here are authorized to repair or replace engines. If the warranty damage is so extensive that 3W germany needs to be contacted (very rare) the engine will be replaced and then sent by the dealer, not by the customer. I certainly would not be worried about it when buying a new or used engine, catastrophic failure is very rare.

3W's run great.. best idle and midrange in the biz. Of all the engines I have for myself or bought for others, I have only had to make 3 warranty claims

1 - 3W-24i had a bent prop retainer out of the box ... the spinner would shake at RPM. Bobby sent me a new one n/c
2 - I had a ZDZ that sheared a crankshaft (and spun the prop) when the front bearing locked up at full throttle. RCS replaced the engine and fedexed it to me - the case was cracked from the failure.
3- 3W-106 had a siezed spark plug.. when I finally muscled it out it took the threads with it. I could have just heli-coiled it but AI replaced the cylinder for me instead.. engine was flawless from then on.

Keep in mind I have had my hands on dozens of engines (mostly 3W) this year alone. Rarely have I seen problems and when I do they are taken care of quickly.

Get the 3W and don't worry about the service. It is excellent. If you are buying a used engine, have Bobby or Gerhard do a bench test and tune.. its $50 well spent if you don't have a lot of engine experience. That way you are installing an engine that is set up as it came out of the box.. and if there is anything wrong with it you won't have to find that out in flight!

Consider DA and ZDZ too, they also have exceptional engines with exceptional service.
DP

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

Most crank failures result from a combination of improperly torqued prop bolts, out of balance props, prop vibration(i.e. flex) and a small defect in the metallurgy when forging the cranks. If any one of the conditons above were present nothing would break, but combining them precipitates the failure.

Fortunately, the defects are very rare. I have heard of isolated crank failures with just about every engine manufacturer.

BTW - the QQ series uses the same cranks as the regular 106, so its not engine specific.

DP

2.6mrod

no we had no joy the crankcase had not been machined from new properly so the front bearing was only sealing on 1/2 of one casing side so we found out when we pulled it down ourselves because warrentie was a joke,


the dealer just put lots of locktite on the bearing to fill it in and sent it back with a bill of $600.00 dollars and told us the problem was with our smoke system, causing the engine to have erratic tuning problems .causing dead sticks and hunting in flight, even though we told him oil was leaking out the front hub,
we have tried to contact 3w with emails and hand written letters with no luck.

i have had other 3w engines that have been spot on, but when this happens you really have to look at after sales service and now i am a da convert with a da100 and a da150 our da dealer is very easy to talk to and helpful with full support.
i will email you a pic of the casing i cant work out how to put it on this page
rod

DKjens

My Feedback: (50)

Ah man, that picture is horrible. It is a textbook example of a shift in the casting when making that part. You can easily see how the part is machined where it had material, and where the tool did not machine, because of lack of material due to the shift. Another example of the low quality of a cast crank case from 3W, compared to a billet machined counter part from DA. And the even worst part is, that again 3W's answer is: "It's the owners fault" - man that is a load of crap. I don't care if perhaps the 3W106 is stronger than the DA100, but who the heck wants to run the chance first of all to get a "good" engine, and second of all to be treated by 3W like an idiot.
DKjens

DesertHucker

Rod,
Did you get this engine sorted with 3W.
I was looking at one myself

Lawrie

RTK

My Feedback: (1)

I hope 3W's quality control is not sliding again.

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

A dealer like that should have his dealership taken away...And 3W management should start taking a look at their lack of inspection, from the machining level to the assembly level...Quality starts at the incoming casting level and continuse through the whole process, to shipping the engines out...
There is NO excuse for a casting like that to even get to the machine in the first place..Been there, done that..I was QC manager for a large machine shop in Phoenix...We often had to send defective castings to the foundry...
There should also be inspection of the assembly process...Anyone who can't see a bore like that needs to be fired...
You listening, 3W ?

ernst

2.6MROD
why do you keep telling lies about the proplem you send the engine back because it would not run proper on inspection the rings on both pistons where carboned solid in the groves as you used running in oil for 7 months and never changed over we compered it with an engine of the same age it was like compairing day and knight rod or what ever your name is you can get in contact with us but your using this forum to do somebody's dirty work as the guy this happened to was called luke who was never wrong and quote
question/ Did you read the manual ANSWER BY LUKE WHY SHOULD I WHEN I GOT YOU TO SORT IT OUT
people believe what they want to believe we answer these allegations only because he tells lies and is using this forum on behave of somebody else The crankcase was drilled fore smoke/ did they drill it and that was that or did they take the cylinders of and than drilled the crankcase and cleaned it why did they use run in oil fore 7 months every weekend as we all know the engine will carbon up
and ofcourse thats 3w fault and the amount of oil used he only knows
And the crankcase was never taken apart as the propblem was apperent when the cylinders came of
the engine was mounted in a aircraft and tested fore a full afternoon flying and performed flawless and was send back to customer with the bill witch by the way was never paid
Ask him what consumer affairs told him Because he tempered with the product he had no claim
we leave it at that you can all make up your own mind
Ernst

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

My post was about the lack of quality control...The case is obviously defective..I have seen much more, I stand by what I wrote...100%
Carboned up rings is another problem not related to quality....

ernst

RCIGN1 I agree with the quality control bit but are we exspected to have a look at every engine we bring in from 3w
as you read the post from the so called customer oil was leaking out of the front bearing my recolection of 3w engines they have another bearing before the front bearing if that one did not leak how does the oil get between the two bearings up the front like to know how that one works as 3w uses seald bearings no marks or bad machining on the second seat for the bearing
when reading this fellows post it changes every time he writes about it go back to april 2003 that is when it came about same horse different jocky
Ernst

RTK

My Feedback: (1)

The one problem still stands, why would they let a case like that go out in the first place. It is bad for 3W's business and you have to know it will come back for service some time. By the way, why would they (3W) stick a dealer with that.

May be the back bearing was bad too.


Just so you know I do own a 3w and it runs fine. The casting could be better on mine though.

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

My point exactly...The dealer can't take every engine apart and inspect it for defects, he has to rely on the integrity of 3W...
A good inspection system would catch most, if not all, the problems at the factory...
3w engines use the best sealed bearings made by NSK...It would take a complete failure of the inner bearing to let crankcase pressure into the space between the two front bearings, and failure of the front bearing or a defective case to allow oil to come out the front of the engine..Apparently the inner bearing seal failed and the case was defective on the engine in question...That part of the problem should have been warranteed no matter how old the engine was..

ernst

RCIGN1
As there was no bearing failure because the crankcase was never separated and bearings feld fine and smooth turning the crank without pistons and cylinders attached we servised the engine and flew it a whole afternoon without a sign of leaking oil out the front or anywhere else the engine was send back to the customer this guy who is complaining has never bought a 3w-106 from us and what he is feeding this forum is all second or third hand gossip,we can go back to 1998 his name is not there
the crankcase was not machined to the standard we expect had we known we would have fixed the problem but they did not know it either untill they took it apart and used that as a excuse for their incompetentcy in running in the engine the bad machining of the crankcase does not course the rings to get stuck solid in the pistons all carboned up, ask him to show pictures of the pistons that where send to him all carboned up don't think we ever see them
ernst

3wExtra

I do not know how things are in down under, but here in the USA Gerhard is a gentleman! Sometimes rough around the edge but a gentleman nonetheless

Biglen

My Feedback: (5)

Gerhard and Kevin at Aircraft International do an excellent job and have a "no bull" attitude! Any problem I had was resolved very quickly and professionally. 3W rock! I will buy more 3W's.
Big Len

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

Gerhard is the most impolite person I have ever tried to talk with. I met him at Toledo, and after waiting until he wasn't talking to someone else, I tried to ask him a few questions but I couldn't get his attention long enough for him to answer. I know..........The old "Very busy." routine. But isn't that why a company like Aircraft International go's to Toledo? One of my reasons for going to Toledo was for the express purpose to buy a new 3w 56b2. Needless to say, I didn't buy the engine, nor would I ever buy from Gerhard's company again. If I need 3w in the fut ure it will be from Bobby, at "Cactus Aviation.

PlaneInsane

My Feedback: (5)

Bobby Wilson will treat you right. He isn't as big as A.I., but on the other hand he is reasonable when warranty repair is needed. I bought a new QS150 from Bobby back in Nov 02 and the poor motor just never would be the motor it was supposed to be. The end result was I got a new 157 Competition as a replacement for it. It took some time, but the end result was more than worth the wait. He even gave me a choice between the Competition or a standard Twin Spark. Of course I opted for the Competition version simply because of all the hand grinding that they do on the cylinders.

Rich Sornborger
IMAC2335