I have a dilemma that I have plenty of time to ponder over...
I am a Diehard believer in DA engines and their business practices and was considering the 100 for my new CHP 34% Extra. However, I live at 6500 feet and the DA doesn't like anything over 26 pounds "wet" for even semi-unlimited performance. My friend has the same plane with the DA and Hyde cannisters and the airplane came out nose heavy to the point that it took 2 2300 mah nimh's halfway down the tail to balance,and it was heavy overall (28 pounds).
My goal with this plane is 24 pounds, but it was seeming to be quite a chalange until I noticed that the BME was almost 2 pounds lighter than the DA and, reportedly, more powerful. Balance might still be a challange, but I am considering this engine.

My question is, does anyone have some comparisons between these engines? I plan on running stock mufflers, again for weight purposes, but RPM figure with cannisters are useful as well.
And while your at it, what planes are you guys putting these on and how was the balancing issue, if any???

My 110 was in a H9 Edge that weighed 21lbs, ballistic. My 110 would turn a 28x10 menz about 200-300 rpm more than my DA. You should be able to get to 24lbs, especially with the normal mods, carbon tube, etc. If may only save you an ounce, but a carbon stab tube will help you balance it. Get some kavan tires, lithiums, etc, and you should be good to go. At your altitude I would start and stop with a 27x10 (I found the 27x10 to be a better 3d prop).

Thanks. I will be using a TBM main tube and I believe it already has a CF stab tube. I am strongly considering CF gear, will use Dubro lightweight wheels, a smaller tank, CF spinner and wood prop (if the CG will work out), and definitely Fromecos, but will decide on dual 2400's or 4800's based on CG. I am also looking for lighter wheelpants- I understand ZNLine makes some CF ones.
Before considering this engine, I already knew that 25 pounds was in range, but I may now be able to get 23 pounds..

Sorry for going off topic...anyone else have good experiences?

the kavan tires will save you 3-4oz as well

I have a friend with a BME 110 on Dalton carbon canisters and it is in a 40 lb all molded Turbo Porter and on a 27/10 it pulls it straight up. It is set up to pull 1/3 to 1/2.5 scale gliders. Check out kcse.us for pictures and some info on it. I know we are in the lowlands but you will be amazed at the power this thing motor put out.

Hi Bodyworks--

Here is my story. My buddy and I both built Comp Arf 2.6's about a year and a half ago. They were set up similarly using all 8611's and cannisters on both. My plane came in at 26 lbs. 5 oz. and his came in at 28 lbs. 8 ozs. Even though his DA would pull it through the Intermediate sequence without problem, that two pounds is always a bonus. I use to fly a Hangar 9 Sukhoi with the BME 105. I fly with six guys that fly Giant Scale airplanes that all have DA engines in them and we do a lot of drag racing. We would get two or three planes out there in a houver and someone would yell go and we would all go to full throttle and see who would accelerate best. My Sukhoi weighed 24 pounds and although, the 105 ran good, the DA's would beat me every time. When I got my 2.6 flying I only had to houver and accelerate one time with my BME 110 and no one wanted to drag race any more. Go figure! The BME 110 has awsome power. Be sure you baffle the cowl with a large exit hole, preferable with an air damn in front of the exit hole. Keep it slightly on the rich side and you will love it!!

BME is a smaller operation than DA, so sometimes you have to make several phone calls to get a hold of someone, but if you leave your name and number they will call you back.

Big Bob

The BME needs very careful tuning. Make a mistake and it will cost you $450 for new cyliders and pistons. The support for you is not like DA's that is for sure - any heat issue out of the box and no matter who's fault it is you will most likely get the blame. That said, the 110 is an awesome engine and if you get it right it will reward you handsomely with reliable power and lots of it. I have had not issues with the two we set up, but I know some people who have had problems with heat.

I almost went with it on my QQ Yak, but decided on the 3W QQ106 with the new ignition. So far, that 3W is the nicest engine I have had a chance to work with. Easiest starter I have ever seen. Weighs the same as the DA (good for balance) but puts out a TON of torque and power. I am running a 26x11 3 blade prop at 2000 feet in 110 degree heat and it hauls a 26 pound model out of sight in seconds. Love it!! It will swing a 28" prop if you want it to!

I have used DA's and worked on some older BME engines as well. They are all good it and it really comes down to what you are comfortable with. I prefer 3W and DA for the excellent service but Ironically I have never needed to return an engine to either one of them. I can't say that for the other ones I have tried....

DP

Hey bodyworks you need to read this before you make a decision,,, www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3136594/tm.htm I believe the DA is no comparison,, go get a PROVEN motor, and PROVEN service,,,

It all depends on which side of the fence you are on, and who you believe is right or wrong.

Service is NOT a problem with BME. If you e-mail Keith he will respond in one day, usually in a couple of hours. I have had many conversations thru e-mail with out any problems to date.

EDIT-
There is nothing wrong with DA,3W,ZDZ, etc. They are all good engines and have good service. A lot of people, because of a couple of post, will believe that it is impossible to have your BME serviced. Wrong. You will also see many comments from people that have never even owned a BME. This is one of the unfortunate things about the internet.


As for the 110. I have been very pleased with mine. Idles well, transitions smooooth, and top end is great. I feel it is stronger than DA and I know it is lighter. It is a proven engine to me and so is Keith's service.

Best of luck with what ever you choose BODYWORKS, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the top engines on the market.

Now where did I leave my flame suit.

Yep, I read that other thread and I feel for the guy, but I still think he smoked it. If he didn't, then he should agree to Keith's offer to send it to a pro. I also believe that, If BME's service was like DA's service, the guy would at least have gotten the "man I feel sorry for you" discount, like 50% or so (I know a guy that sent DA a bag of 100cc engine pieces from a crash - $300 later he had a new engine). DA also wouldn't have come on to the forum to publicly state that one of their customers is unreasonable and that their time is too valuable for them to be arguing with their customers over, who's right. It is my opinion that, if the VAST majority of BME's engines run well, then the VAST majority of their time should be spent helping customers that haven't had such luck.
With that said, I will likely still give BME the benefit of the doubt, but I will be very careful about how I go about running and cooling this engine.
would still like more comparisons, especially RPM figures with stock mufflers.

bodyworks, my 110 was running a 28x10 menz at 6300-6400, and a 27x10 menz at 6700, I liked the 27x10 better. The 110 will be more than enough for your plane, unlimited vertical. The 110s have no heating problems, unless you dont baffle them.

Static RPM #'s are only really meaningful if they are done at the same time with the same prop on the comparing engines. Then you have how each engine turns when it unloads in the air, another story.

Since razorback has owned both engines he probably would have been one of the few people to have actual #'s of both. The only other guy that had done a lot of experimenting was Kris. (since banned from RCU I believe) He might be lurking around at other sites.

When my buddy and I got our 2.6's flying, his motor had come out of another plane and was already broken in. With only 2 gallons of gas through my BME we took the 28-10 Mejzlik off of his DA, which was turning 6400. I reamed out the hole in the center so I could put it on my BME and with my motor not broken in it turned the Mejzlik at 6700. We both wanted to go to 3-bladed props for IMAC, so my buddy bought a 25-12-3 Mejzlik and he put it on his DA and it would only turn 5600. It flew the plane, but he didn't like the performance. I put the Mejzlik 3-blade on my BME and it turned it at 6000. I ended up going with Bela props--I have no comparison RPM's. THe Bela loads the motor more than a Mejzlik. My 28-10-2 Bela turns at 6500; my 26-10 3-blade turns just over 6000. I too, read the thread about the disgruntled BME owner, but from what he wrote in his thread, I too, felt that he had not properly baffled the engine, which is a must, and even though he was running it rich on the first 12 flights, he was cooking the engine, and the 13th flight was the straw. I love my BME. Good luck on your decision.

Big Bob

Speaking of baffling, anyone got pics of effective baffling on an Extra-type cowl?? I know that, without baffling, the left cylinder will run hotter by 20-40 degrees or so...

Hey RTK, you're gonna have to email me with that website of Kris'...aparrently, RCU considers his website foul language, 'cuz all I got was *****!

I always wonder why people think that if the BME 110 is more powerful than the DA, then it is a great thing. Well, it has to be more powerful, we are talking about 10 cc more (10% more displacement). It took a 110 to beat a 100.... Nothing special here. However when we look at the weight that for me is quite an achievement. 2 pounds lighter in an engine this size is like night and day and other things being similar (Power, reliability,..??) the weight alone should make this engine the king in his class.
Just my opinion anyway,
Andres

As a DA owner myself and very happy with it I’ve pondered the same question. I am looking to go 35% to 40% and looking to the BME 110. Kind of funny, I mentioned this to a couple of people last night while flying and was quickly told the DA had more power and but am not convinced.

However as mentioned above, anyone with both could only fairly judge these motors. Even if they had about the same power, the lack of 2 extra pounds is nice. To me it’s not about the displacement, but the power and weight. If the BME were 2 pounds heavier, I would be buying the DA without question.

I would not know if DA customer service is good or not since I’ve never had to use it. But I have seen others deal with them and they have done them right. It seems with the boom of these acrobats, all the mfg are scrambling to get engines out. I am a motor head and most motor problems I’ve seen from any mfg have been user related anyway except for the occasional ign box.

Ken

Ken- I can guarantee that the 110 is more powerful than the DA, but there is still debate about the 3w106 and the 110. I also fully agree that 99% of the engine and even plane set-up problems are user related. There are a lot of people that jump into giant scale with little knowledge of what it takes.

Bodyworks - the service issue aside - I have found in the cases where I used the 110 (Carden 35% Edge, Comp Arf 2.6) the engine in both cases was very light on stock mufflers OR cans. In the Carden we added nose weight (easier than moving the servos) and on the comp arf we had to move a lot of stuff as far forward is it goes (not so much fun) so from a rigging standpoint you might want to have a closer look. I would post some pics but I did not have a camera at the time we were doing those so I have none. The DA or 3W balanced perfect and let us mount everything in a normal fashion.

Sometimes lighter is not always better. The BME 110 is a very nice machine however, definitely more power than the DA, about the same as the 3W QQ106.

I am not big on tach readings...but the QQ106 left bruises on the back of my girlfriends legs from holding the stabs during a full power run in... I have never seen that happen before!



DP

Well, as I said earlier. The CHP Extra comes out noseheavy enough to require two 2300mah nimh's and one 1650 nimh to be halfway down the tail - pretty much as far as an arm can reach - and the plane still flies slightly noseheavy. I don't think weight will be my issue...

I won't get into the power wars, but if the CHP Extra balances like the Planes Plus 34% Extra (and it should), a light motor is the best choice. A buddy has the PP Extra with a BME-102 and in-cowl mufflers, single servos on each aileron, Li-ions and everything else stock from the ARF (wheels and tires, main gear and tail gear.) It balances with the batteries on the wing tube for sequence flying. It weighs an honest 24.2 lbs. This is one plane that works out great with the light motor. No balancing issues and no ballast needed. Another buddy did one with a ZDZ-80 and JMB can.

If you do use a heavier motor, it will be easy to balance by stuffing the batteries closer to the the tail. 8 ounces of tail weight should balance 2 extra lbs of motor.

I am glad that this thread has stayed on tract and that nobody is beating on the hoods of their Ford's or Chevy's. As someone else posted, I also feel that we are very lucky to have so many choices of really good name brand products. The reason I like the BME 110 is that it has as much power as any of them, and weighs 2 lbs. less. DP is right, that when you use the BME you have to put some extra thought into balance. If you use the canisters, as I do, there are no problems. If you use the stock mufflers, you will have to move some equipment, and this can be done easily without adding lead, and definitely worth the effort.


Big Bob

Continue the discussion, all, but I have decided on the 110 Extreme. I love DA, but I am looking for "cutting edge" performance. If only DA could combine their unparallelled customer service with best-in-class power-to-weight (like they do with the 50cc), it would be a no brainer.
Sorry DA...
Now I just need to find out the wait time on getting one of these engines!

OH No,,, here goes the waiting period,

Bodyworks- E-mail Keith and find out. I would guess the wait isn't any worse than some of the other top 3.