Texan

My Feedback: (10)

I agree with Bob. Make the Bosch plug cap standard equipment on the 3.2. Why not use the best option available from your ignition supplier as long as the cost increase is not excessive. As far as the weight gain, how much could it be? An ounce or two? Improved reliability and a lower EMI noise environment YES!

Scott

G McIntosh

My Feedback: (9)

I Bob disagree with you.. I for one having 5 Taurus engines ( 4.4's & 4.2's) all with rubber boots never ever have a problem w/ noise. 2nd.. I find the small rubber boot better for scale narrow cowls ,i.e. Mustangs, Me-109's spitfires and the like. Even with my current Ziroli Stuka build having a large cowl, If my Taurus did have a bosch bird cage boot on it ..it wouldn't fit under that cowl and be on the outside of the cowl..Not going to happen'. Then I'd be wanting a small rubber boot. You want an Apple, I want an Orange. A good radio instalation is more inportant than having a bird cage around a spark plug.. Besides.. let the limb on the tree grow before you go cut it off'..

My 2 cents.. don't need the change'.. Glenn Mc.

tkg

My Feedback: (1)

Bosch cap and PCM good compairison. The Bosch will hide a lot of install "sins". About 1/2 the Bosch ignitions we sell are to people who need it, for what ever reason. The rest are bought as "insurance".
Because of the BIG EXTRA cost , there are way more rubber boots out there flying and most have no problem if they follow our SUGGESTED installation procedures. Its when the modelers get creative that things get weird, like I HAVE TO install my batteries next to each other to make the plane balance.
Bill normally keeps some Bosch cap ignitions in stock, just gotta ask. Of course if he remembered to ask too, it would help.

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

CHM, I totally agree that a "Rubber Booted" spark plug cap is just as good as a Bosc Cap, in most instances. I have never had a problem with ignition noise, and none of my friends have either. The problem we have had is with the Rubber Boot spark plug cap, coming off in flight. CH ignitions will replace it free of charge if you send it back to them. They also recommend the Bosch Cap over the rubber booted cap. I am aware of the importance of keeping the ignition at least 10-12" away from the airborne. If you loose engine power because a spark plug wire came off, what good does it do you if you loose a 3000 dollar aircraft. A few years ago when I started this thread not that many people were flying with the 3.2 Taurus's. Most of the comments made regarding them were by Bill Pryor, (hope he's OK) AJF, Excaliber, and myself. It was several years before
"T-1" even started to responded on this thread. (after prompting by me and others) Now that there has been a very good demand for their engines, I think that some of the weak points are showing up more often. Again, I am only posting the facts of the problems that I and others have had with the PLUG CAP, coming off while in flight. I appreciate your comments Chuck, But they have no bearing on my problem.

G McIntosh. I don't understand what you are disagreeing with me about. I have not mentioned anything about having a problem with ignition noise. My problem is with the rubber cap that is supplied with the 3.2 engine coming off the plug while it's airborne. This happened several times with me and others. I replaced mine with a Bosch type off of a crashed ignition someone had on hand. Another friend, sent his back to Bill for replacement.
I made my comment because someone said they would use the Plug Wire that CH recommended for an extra charge. There was no option offered when I bought my Two Taurus, 3.2 engines. Again Glen, Thanks for your comments, but the problem I refereed to was not with the ignition.

CHM

My Feedback: (28)

Bob, I've never heard of a properly installed rubber boot with the ground braid attached with a small hose clamp coming off. Is that what you are saying or did a rubber boot malfunction? Just curious. I'm open minded.

Chuck

G McIntosh

My Feedback: (9)

Bob I do agree that the Bosch boot is a better boot than the std Rubber boot.. But , I feel the need to make a Bosch boot std equipment on a Taurus just because its one of the best engines on the market isn't needed. Sure one may have had a boot come off in flight.. was it seated and tite in the first place? Has the boot been removed off the spark plug many times ? Maybe ..Maybe not..
How many times has one used a pair of pylers to make the clip smaller say on a lawn mower doing maintance so the wire lead will stay on.. I know I have in the past. So it maybe true with that one time or so the boot fell off. Sure everything isn't fool proof'.. Maintance is need often more than not. I'm sure Bill T-1 would sell anyone a Bosch ignition boot with their new engine if they just ask' for it, or as an optional up grade. But too have Taurus Engines sell the Bosch boot as std equipment on their engines and to assorb the cost without a price increase is absurd. Besides, if a Bosch boot is a cure all, why don't CH-Ignitions sell all the ignition sets they sell with a Bosch boot and make it there std equipment? They don't ... They offer both don't they ?
I for one like choices.. as I believe you do and everone else. Glenn

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

What I'm saying is that the boot comes off the plug even with the shield[u] clamped (properly installed). It's just that simple Chuck, The boot with the spring inside that holds the cap to the plug, loosens up, and the Rubber boot falls off the spark plug cap, falls off. I've tried to re tightened the cap but all to no avail. after a few flights it loosen's up again. I replaced mine with a Bosch Cap, and it's been bullet proof since. I"m not nit picking. I just think that if theres a known problem with an engine, it should be addressed before shipment is made,. Period. How can I tell those that PM me with the problem, there was an unpublished upgrade available that was a little more reliable for an additional, $12.00 after he has crashed hi plane due to the plug cap falling off on take off.

Texan

My Feedback: (10)

Bob,

Well said. I'd buy that insurance policy for $12.00. I wish I'd known to ask for the Bosch option when I purchased my engine.

Scott

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

Yes to all the above Glen, But I looking for and engine that has nothing held back in it's production because it's going to have the best engine reputation of any engine. I don't expect any manufacture to add anything to his product without charging for it. That his right, and he can build his engine anyway he chooses. I have always felt that the Taurus Engine was the most Reliable, smoothest, running engine available at any cost in the 50cc size range. Maybe the 4.2- 4.4's are different than the 3.2's If you factor in the cost of the Upgraded Ignition,+ shipping........Taurus engines is now approaching 700.00.

T-one

A few weeks ago it was,why don't the Taurus have a 10mm pilot on the prop hub.
then it was afew stripped out the threads of the prop hub because they failed to use a longer bolt when using a thicker prop or just plain exerting more force then necessary.
Both of those issues have been cure with the NEW 10mm pilot hub.
Now this week its the Bosch plug cap.
And the price of the Taurus compared to other engines in the 50cc range.
For the past 12 years the rubber boot has worked and worked well. The Bosch has been an option.
OK we can eliminate the costly radial mount and the spark plug and the throttle linkage and be like all the rest. Might even be less in price.
But here is the bottom line. It ain't going to happen.The current price of the Taurus is $600.00
with the mount,throttle linkage, sparkplug and new hub. If you want the Bosch its 12.50 more which is now 612.50 Where is the 700.00 figure even with the optional Pitts style muffler it would be 691.50. Now compare apples to apples.
Last item on my agenda. We have replaced or repaired the engines that had the stripped threads and returned at no cost to the customer.
What we won't be doing is offering the new hub or a Bosch cap as a no cost upgrade.
If someone wants the Bosch cap then it should be specified when ordering.
I've been using the C/H rubber boot and Bosch caps longer than I can remember and NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH ANY INSTALLATION. I can't say that about any of the"other" ignitions I've tried over the years. I'm sure when the new engines come out with the new style hub, someone will open up that can of worms.Well we listened to some of you and made a change. Lets see what happens.
In the meantime if anyone has a comment, complaint or a suggestion on how the Taurus performance can be improved, Please call or write to us directly as we no longer have the luxury of spare time.

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

WHAT A CROCK: As I stated the cost of the new Taurus equipped as it's always been, with Pitts wraparound, Bosch type CH ignition, throttle linkage,(what a joke) was close to 700.00 w/shipping. And now it seems that you are assuming that we as users, are just to stupid to screw the bolt into the prop hub, or we used to much force for a bolt that you admit was too short, and stripped the hub out. You also seem to imply that we were lieing about our problems with the mufflers always coming loose, and the spark plug caps falling off. Well Bill, if thats your idea of customer service coming on this thread to rip your customers......Go ahead, but you can no longer count me as a supporter of the Taurus engine. For you to admit that the old prop hub needed to be redesigned and say.... to quote you, "What we won't be doing is offer the new hub and Bosh cap as a no cost replacement. Is this what you call great customer relations? Will you continue to sell your engine with an inferior hub unless the customer wants to pay extra for a better one? I don't see very much pride in your product with that business attitude. Ones things for sure though, As long as I, or any of my friends and acquaintances that email about problems with their Taurus engines, I will bring it to the attention of the readers of this thread Which I started. "Taurus Owners Only".

T-one

I will not mince words with you. I f you don't like our product thats your choice. I don't assume anything. But you recall YOU were the first one to snap a bolt at 42 foot pounds of torque without stripping out the hub. Your words again , I imply nothing, thats your opinion.
Rip our customers,doing repairs at no cost is a rip off,in your eyes maybe.
You don't read well when your upset. we have a new hub. You'll LOVE THIS ONE it has a 10mm pilot and (6) six yes count them 6 SHCs screws you can now strip out.You wanted the 10mm you got it.
Do what you will we can't stop you.I'm sure we will still sell one or two. If not, then so be it
In the meantime enjoy whatever engine or engines you have and have fun flying all your planes. you can bash us till your hearts content If it makes you happy.But don't expect me to play.

Bass1

I think "Cabin Fever" is makin' all of us cranky! Once flying season( warm, comfortable, light winded days) is in FULL swing, we'll all be friends again!![sm=lol.gif]

G McIntosh

My Feedback: (9)

Maybe, Bill could also include a chunk of CHEESE as std equipment .. To go with that wine

Good grief..

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

T-1: You said "I will not mince words with you. I f you don't like our product thats your choice. I don't assume anything. But if you recall, YOU were the first one to snap a bolt at 42 foot pounds of torque without stripping out the hub. Your words again , I imply nothing, thats your opinion.

[b] My complaint is not so much with the product as it is with your weak excuses to you customers. You always imply it was the customers fault when they have a problem Such as,

"YOU TIGHTENED THE PROP BOLT TOO TIGHT"

Were you there when the bolt snapped? Do you know how much torque I used? Are you telling me there's no implication in your statement when you say I was the first one to snap a bolt at 42 foot pounds? I assure you, The bolt snapped at far less than 42 ft lb of torque. Did you observe me use 42 lb of torque? This is the first, and only prop bolt I have ever broke due to over tightening.

"THE PROP BOLT WAS TOO SHORT FOR THE PROP YOU USED".

[b] Are you telling me there's no implication in your statement when you say the customer used the wrong bolt for for the prop he used, when all he did was use the prop bolt that came with the engine. If the bolt was too short, you should have furnished longer bolts when with the engine when you sold it. (Or at least had a warning that the bolt may be too short for some props).


Rip our customers,doing repairs at no cost is a rip off,in your eyes maybe. You don't read well when your upset. we have a new hub. You'll LOVE THIS ONE it has a 10mm pilot and (6) six yes count them 6 SHCs screws you can now strip out.

Are you doing anything that any other MFG doesn't do by doing the the repairs while the engine is under warranty? If you refunded the customers shipping cost for sending the engine in for repairs, That would be something to CROW about. Are you telling me you're not implying that I'll strip out the additional six, (count them) screws in your new Hub?
You wanted the 10mm you got it.

Think back Bill..... I'm not the one that suggested that you change the Prop Bolt and Hub to a 10mm bolt. It was others that suggested that you conform with the standard that is used by other Manufactures. If you recall.....I told you that I thought the Taurus hub was the best Hub out there. and to quote myself...."IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT". Read the threads. before you say it was me that wanted a 10mm bolt. That's just another implication you make. You and others decided that you needed a different Hub. Not me. My problem has always been with the bolt that you were shipping with the engines and implying that any problem the customer had was his fault, and never a fault with the product.


Do what you will we can't stop you.I'm sure we will still sell one or two. If not, then so be it
In the meantime enjoy whatever engine or engines you have and have fun flying all your planes. you can bash us till your hearts content If it makes you happy.But don't expect me to play.

I have never BASHED the TAURUS ENGINE, what I have done is state my dissatisfaction with one particular problem with a component (prop bolt) that was furnished with the engine and the IMPLICATIONS. that are made to the consumer


Bob Laine Date 4/1/2006 12:55:26 AM

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

G McIntosh. Whine Glen?............... Hardly. just the facts, which you have never had to experience. I understand your loyalty. But...... if you completely ignore the fact that some of us, have had problems with our engines, and the way a customer is treated by the MFG, has no bearing on how a customer feels about the company, and If you fail to see that a problem does exist, or did exist, then I say you're pretty narrow minded, and your loyalty is admirable, but BLIND.

marzo91

My Feedback: (57)

I enjoy reading every opinion of everyone, but do you ever have time left to fly? Just think of the positives that could be/could have been, accomplished with the amount of time and passion you have for this hobby.

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

Marzo91: Thanks for you comment. It's very well taken. You're right.........I do have a passion for this hobby, and I have had that same passion ever since I flew my first single channel airplane (48" Spook," with Cox .049 ) in 1959, and It has remained my hobby for all these years.

tkg

My Feedback: (1)

OOh somebody is going to be sent to bed with no supper.
FWIW, Bill told us that several people had said that they were having trouble with the rubber boots coming lose. So we went through our stock and found some that the clip inside the boot was crimped to small. The boot would go on the plug and snap on the flashover ribs, but the clip would not go over the button on the top of the plug. SO we made an instant change in QC procedures, by snapping each clip on a spark plug before installing the rubber boot, an have had no more complants.
With enough force the bad caps would lock on the button, of course then they wouldn't come off EVER.
If you have any problem with a CH ignition, call us and we will take care of it. If you send it to the engine mfg, all they do is send it to us and it adds a week or 2 to your down time.....

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

Now you've done it

marzo91

My Feedback: (57)

I've been flying 25 years, you were flying before I was born. One way or another, most of us have learned something from reading your posts.

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

Now this........is real customer service. Just take care of the problem and be done with it. The way I see it is the way it should be. The customer holds the company he purchased the engine from, and then if there's a problem with a supplied component, the mfg then go's to his supplier.
Good customer relations would be to help the customer, not try and make him feel guilty of contributing to the problem.

Thank you CH Ignitions. Your a credit to this hobby, and your company's commitment to it's integrity is beyond reproach.

Flylow

T-one: Remember - You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time..... then there are those who are bipolar. Keep up your good work.

cloudshaker

My Feedback: (32)

[quote]ORIGINAL: T-one



Where is the 700.00 figure even with the optional Pitts style muffler it would be 691.50. Now compare apples to apples.

That is close enough to $700.00 to me, and an apples to apples comparison would have to include Customer Service which brings me to my next point.


What we won't be doing is offering the new hub or a Bosch cap as a no cost upgrade.

You are apparently changing the hub on future engines which implies a recognized problem, but you make the previous statement to your customers. A different manufacturer had to recall several engines to replace connecting rods and did so without question, or implication of fault. Apples to Apples; Maybe don't go there ! Good luck, Bite the bullet, and Make sure Customer satisfaction comes first.

T-one

cloubshaker, comparison is regards to the engine construction not the price.Full crank vs canti-lever.
To supply a Bosch cap or new style hub does not fall into the same catagory as a recall. Simply because they do not have any affect in the performance of the engine. A different manufacturer had no recourse but to do what they had to do because the engines did not perform. Do not take my comments out of context.
The new hub is a result of complying with requests for a 10mm pilot shaft. The previous hub has never been defective, except for the bolt length. So the change is not because of a problem.And does not imply otherwise. And up until now there has not been an issue with customer service.
I feel that our presence on this forum serves no further useful purpose regardless of our explanations.Please contact us direct with any questions or complaints. thanks