aj and phoenix

My Feedback: (2)

I've got a engine that I think is a Brison 3.2, but I have been told that it might have an A&M crank in it. Does anyone recognize this motor? Notice the bent linkages and the BIG bell crank. It runs as is but I would like to do it up right and I would like to go to an electronic timing advance. How difficult is that to do on this motor? The ignition module that is with it has a date on the back of 8-94, would I be better off chucking it and buying a new one rather than trust it in a new bird?

Ih82crash

It looks like a Brison to me. I'm not sure about that funky prop adapter. On the older Brisons they had that bell crank and the white plastic ring as a spark advance. I would get a new ignition module, or if it runs all right, I would at least contact CH electronics and see if they had any problems with that module. It would be a shame to throw all that money away for a faulty ignition module

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

It's an OLD A&M...Take the 6 bolt adapter off...If the end of the crank is smooth with no centering hole the crank is an A&M, not as good as the Sachs crank..If it's a Sachs crank the engine is just as good as a new one, you can't wear out the cylinder and piston....You can lock the timing ring at 28 degrees BTDC and get a syncro module from C&H to use the ignition you have, if it's good....
Many of those old A&M engines were timed way too far BTDC, check it out....

aj and phoenix

My Feedback: (2)

What is the difference with the A&M crank that makes it not a good as a Sachs (and not as good as a new one)? The cylinder walls look very good and it has very good compression. I know nothing about timing this thing. How do I determine where to set the timing? There are some bare spots on the sensor pickup wires and the advance ring seems a little sloppy so I think it might be best to send it off for some TLC.

tkg

My Feedback: (1)

Like RCI said remove the prop adapter and see what the end of the crank looks like. OR Open the throttle all the way and shine a light inside and look at the rod. If it is aluminum its got a A&M crank, if its a bronze/cooper looking rod then its a Sachs rod and a MUCH better engine.
The A&M crank had the wrong metal harding, wrong fit, wrong balance and used the cheapest bearings that could be bought.

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

TKG is just being nice...The A&M crank is what indirectly caused the demise of A&M..This is not bashing, it's fact....

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

Here are a couple of pics to help illustrate what was stated above. The crank on the left in both pics is A&M, the one on the right is Sachs:

aj and phoenix

My Feedback: (2)

I took the prop adapter off and the crank has a big dimple in the end. I also looked at the rod through the carb and it is the dark copper/bronze color. I noticed that you refered to it as a A&M or Sachs crank not an A&M or Sachs engine. Does this mean that the engine itself is a Sachs engine if it has the features described above? Just curious about the lineage.
Also the ignition module has an 8/94 date on the back. Will an ignition that is this old tend to generate more RFI than a newer version or should I not be concerned? I don't know its history (i.e. abuse, crashes, etc.) Should I replace it just to be safe or just try it in the plane and do a good range check on the ground? I still want to switch it mechanical to electronic advance. Any tips on performing the switch?

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

Just before Brison took over, I believe A&M switched to using the Sachs crank. A&M originally only used a Sachs piston, & cylinder, on their own case. After Brison took over the cases were also changed. I talked to Gary about this when I got my first 3.2, and am pretty sure that is what he told me. It has been about 7 or 8 yearsago. Your motor could be an early Brison, or late A&M. I have several brown box ignitions that work fine. In fact the only bad, (inoperative) ignition I have is a newer silver box. Yours has the Bosch shielded cap already, so if it works, it should be fine. I have the mechanical spark on all my engines and would not care to change it out for the electronic advance. That's just me though.

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

Sachs made a few engines years ago..They were to be sold through chainsaw dealers...I saw the literature but never saw an engine...There are no "Sachs" engines, just engines made with Sachs cranks, pistons, and cylinders...Making a crankcase and using these parts does not make it a Sachs engine...Same with Husqvarna, there are engines made with Husky parts and machined cranks...They are not Husqvarna engines...Same with BME, Keith uses Echo parts but does not call his engines "Echo"...Many engine companies tend to keep the origins of their products hidden, since "industrial" engines are not deemed good enough to power high dollar miniature aircraft..(IMHO)
I think A&M started out with Sachs cranks and changed later...The MKII A&M engines were the ones Brison improved on...The A&M MKII engines had cantilever cranks made by, or for, A&M....

tkg

My Feedback: (1)

The engine has a Sachs cylinder and piston, The Sachs crank means an early A&M. A&M made the crankcase out of billet.
Later to increase profit they made the MK1 crank trying to copy the Sachs crank. After lots of problems they tried the MKII cantlivered crank which only a little better. They then went bellyup.
Brison bought A&M in a bankruptcy court. Then spent a long time getting the MKII crank right.
AJ sounds like you got a keeper.

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

Been a while since I got the story from Gary. I was not positive about the chronology. Glad someone remembers how it all came about.
I do know, I have had several of the A&M engines with the Sachs crank, and they have served me well. Only had the one with the A&M crank. Seems niether will handle a good hard crash into asphalt.
If nothing else, at least everyone knows what to look for when purchasing a used A&M. Alsways ask about the crank.[sm=thumbup.gif]

aj and phoenix

My Feedback: (2)

I am totally suprised that I got one that wasn't junk. The reverse is usually what happens if I buy something without getting the details first. Its good to get the background on this stuff. If nothing else, I think it is interesting to learn a little about some of the history of this hobby.