Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
04-27-2006 | 10:25 AM
#1
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From: Copenhagen, DENMARK
Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
About ½ gallon through so far...
Just wondering if the mess it makes is more than normal?
The engine, MVVS/Evolution 45, is running perfectly, however quite rich atfactory needle settings
Just wondering if the mess it makes is more than normal?
The engine, MVVS/Evolution 45, is running perfectly, however quite rich atfactory needle settings
04-27-2006 | 11:58 AM
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From: Copenhagen, DENMARK
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
Doh! Yes of course - smoke fitting is now plugged.
However, the plane itself is pretty messy on the outside too. Even if the black goo is blown out the exhaust - would you say it's making too much black goo?
The engine is running perfectly, very strong and also very reliable and steady idle. I also has a nice smooth feel when turning the hub or flipping the prob.
Would you say the the amount of residue is ground for lowering the oil contents (currently running 3.3% as prescribed, normal mixture is prescribed to 2.5%)?
Or should I lean it a bit (still on factory settings, 4 stroking quite a bit)?
Or should I live with it for a while longer?
However, the plane itself is pretty messy on the outside too. Even if the black goo is blown out the exhaust - would you say it's making too much black goo?
The engine is running perfectly, very strong and also very reliable and steady idle. I also has a nice smooth feel when turning the hub or flipping the prob.
Would you say the the amount of residue is ground for lowering the oil contents (currently running 3.3% as prescribed, normal mixture is prescribed to 2.5%)?
Or should I lean it a bit (still on factory settings, 4 stroking quite a bit)?
Or should I live with it for a while longer?
04-27-2006 | 12:40 PM
#5
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RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
The amount of goo is never a reason to lower oil content. New gas engines have that bad habit.
It will pass. Just clean it off using plain gas, and you will be fine after a while.
It will pass. Just clean it off using plain gas, and you will be fine after a while.
04-27-2006 | 01:35 PM
#7
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RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
You will find that "factory" settings are almost always way rich...
"factory" settings are the cause of most engine running problems...
You can't harm an engine setting the carb on the ground..
The high should be set for MAX rpm, then backed off until the engine just starts to slow down..
The low needle should be just richer than the point where transition is good...
We do this same topic over and over, look back through the posts..
Manufacturers are doing new owners a great disservice by not publishing carb setting instructions..
Maybe it's a CYA thing, let the owners fly around using up about 5 gallons of fuel with a plane that staggers all over the sky, then in desperation gets some help with the carb...
"factory" settings are the cause of most engine running problems...
You can't harm an engine setting the carb on the ground..
The high should be set for MAX rpm, then backed off until the engine just starts to slow down..
The low needle should be just richer than the point where transition is good...
We do this same topic over and over, look back through the posts..
Manufacturers are doing new owners a great disservice by not publishing carb setting instructions..
Maybe it's a CYA thing, let the owners fly around using up about 5 gallons of fuel with a plane that staggers all over the sky, then in desperation gets some help with the carb...
04-27-2006 | 01:50 PM
#8
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
My 3W 56 is cleaner than when it was on its first gallon, but still makes a mess. Just a part of the break in process.
04-27-2006 | 04:47 PM
#9
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
ORIGINAL: RCIGN1
You will find that "factory" settings are almost always way rich...
"factory" settings are the cause of most engine running problems...
You can't harm an engine setting the carb on the ground..
The high should be set for MAX rpm, then backed off until the engine just starts to slow down..
The low needle should be just richer than the point where transition is good...
We do this same topic over and over, look back through the posts..
Manufacturers are doing new owners a great disservice by not publishing carb setting instructions..
Maybe it's a CYA thing, let the owners fly around using up about 5 gallons of fuel with a plane that staggers all over the sky, then in desperation gets some help with the carb...
You will find that "factory" settings are almost always way rich...
"factory" settings are the cause of most engine running problems...
You can't harm an engine setting the carb on the ground..
The high should be set for MAX rpm, then backed off until the engine just starts to slow down..
The low needle should be just richer than the point where transition is good...
We do this same topic over and over, look back through the posts..
Manufacturers are doing new owners a great disservice by not publishing carb setting instructions..
Maybe it's a CYA thing, let the owners fly around using up about 5 gallons of fuel with a plane that staggers all over the sky, then in desperation gets some help with the carb...
I still shake my head every time I see someone post on here that they are running the carb at "factory settings".
Why on earth would you take a brand new $500---$1500 engine out of the box, mount it on your plane (your $1500--$5000 plane) and fly the plane without adjusting the carb?
Factory setitngs don't mean diddly squat, unless you just happen to be at the exact same barametric pressure, altitude, humidity, and temperature as the guy who test fired the engine at the factory.
Do any of the factories actually adjust the engine? I'll bet money that if they even fire the engine-----all they do is fire it to make sure it runs, then toss it in the box. Probably don't even run it for 30 seconds. I seriously doubt that they ever touch the carb or adjust it for proper running.
You have nothing to loose by adjusting your carb--and everything to loose by running it stupid rich and low on power while mounted to your expensive airplane. Overly rich engines are the subject of much unhappiness in this hobby. Overly rich leads to gummed up rings, build up of carbon in the combustion chamber, fouled plugs, and on and on and on...............
Adjust your carbs people. [sm=thumbup.gif]
04-27-2006 | 05:18 PM
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From: Copenhagen, DENMARK
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
I leave it at factory settings because I don't want to lean it too much while not properly broken in, causing the engine to heat up too much, with subsequent deadsticks. ...and because the manual says to leave it at factory setting in the beginning. Also as posted, the engines runs very well, with no hickups and minimal hesitation, despite four stroking a bit at the low end. I just want to protect my "$1500 - 5000 plane" from deadsticks and have a well responding engine. Not that much of an engine geek.
But, if you head did not fall off you shoulder from shaking it
, could please post your oppinion if you think the amount of goo is from running too rich or if you think this level is normal even for a well adjusted engine in the process of being broken in?
But, if you head did not fall off you shoulder from shaking it
, could please post your oppinion if you think the amount of goo is from running too rich or if you think this level is normal even for a well adjusted engine in the process of being broken in?
04-27-2006 | 05:21 PM
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From: Copenhagen, DENMARK
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
Let me put the question in another way... would I have less residue if I leaned it out?
04-27-2006 | 06:53 PM
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From: Pasadena,
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RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
Tor,
It is a desired residue. The residue tells you that the engine as breaking in. Even if the engine is brand new, you can set the needles close to optimal, just not quite as close as when the engine has reached optimal condition. You should run the oil and contents that the manufacturer prescribes. To check if the L needle is set right, I will check the following. Does the engine have to warm up before it will take the off idle throttle? If yes, that's how I like it on an optimal engine, but not on a brand new. Does the idle get lower with time or does it have to clear exessively when given gas, it's too rich. Set the low, where it will take the gas immediately after starting, but won't take forever to clear out after 10-15 sek of idling. Then set the H needle to where the engine doesn't surge, meaning reaches max rpm, then goes down in rpm, but you probably won't and shouldn't use full throttle for extended amounts of time in the air when breaking in.
Don't feel bad about mentioning "factory needle settings". If the engine runs fine, as you said it does, there is no need to mess with the needles.
DKjens
It is a desired residue. The residue tells you that the engine as breaking in. Even if the engine is brand new, you can set the needles close to optimal, just not quite as close as when the engine has reached optimal condition. You should run the oil and contents that the manufacturer prescribes. To check if the L needle is set right, I will check the following. Does the engine have to warm up before it will take the off idle throttle? If yes, that's how I like it on an optimal engine, but not on a brand new. Does the idle get lower with time or does it have to clear exessively when given gas, it's too rich. Set the low, where it will take the gas immediately after starting, but won't take forever to clear out after 10-15 sek of idling. Then set the H needle to where the engine doesn't surge, meaning reaches max rpm, then goes down in rpm, but you probably won't and shouldn't use full throttle for extended amounts of time in the air when breaking in.
Don't feel bad about mentioning "factory needle settings". If the engine runs fine, as you said it does, there is no need to mess with the needles.
DKjens
04-27-2006 | 10:51 PM
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From: Wisconsin Rapids,
WI
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
I have a new evolution 58 and they gave us some oil to use during breakin and its awfull like goo. I cant wait till that fuel is gone. and i sure hear you about the factory settings this thing burnt a lot more than an oz a min. with the carb settings it came with. That lasted one flight. Ive got 6 more flights on her and she is over due for another round of adjustments. I was like you I wanted to wait till she was done with the break in mix but I want this to start a tad easyer and not use all that fuel . Good luck
04-27-2006 | 11:07 PM
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From: Left Coast ,
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RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
Probably,,,, as posted earlier, plug that smoke fitting (which would cure what is on the inside) and adjust your needles.
ORIGINAL: Tor
Let me put the question in another way... would I have less residue if I leaned it out?
Let me put the question in another way... would I have less residue if I leaned it out?
04-28-2006 | 04:19 AM
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From: Ashland,
VA
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
adjust carbs, that will never happen.
ORIGINAL: Rcpilet
Agreed
I still shake my head every time I see someone post on here that they are running the carb at "factory settings".
Why on earth would you take a brand new $500---$1500 engine out of the box, mount it on your plane (your $1500--$5000 plane) and fly the plane without adjusting the carb?
Factory setitngs don't mean diddly squat, unless you just happen to be at the exact same barametric pressure, altitude, humidity, and temperature as the guy who test fired the engine at the factory.
Do any of the factories actually adjust the engine? I'll bet money that if they even fire the engine-----all they do is fire it to make sure it runs, then toss it in the box. Probably don't even run it for 30 seconds. I seriously doubt that they ever touch the carb or adjust it for proper running.
You have nothing to loose by adjusting your carb--and everything to loose by running it stupid rich and low on power while mounted to your expensive airplane. Overly rich engines are the subject of much unhappiness in this hobby. Overly rich leads to gummed up rings, build up of carbon in the combustion chamber, fouled plugs, and on and on and on...............
Adjust your carbs people. [sm=thumbup.gif]
ORIGINAL: RCIGN1
You will find that "factory" settings are almost always way rich...
"factory" settings are the cause of most engine running problems...
You can't harm an engine setting the carb on the ground..
The high should be set for MAX rpm, then backed off until the engine just starts to slow down..
The low needle should be just richer than the point where transition is good...
We do this same topic over and over, look back through the posts..
Manufacturers are doing new owners a great disservice by not publishing carb setting instructions..
Maybe it's a CYA thing, let the owners fly around using up about 5 gallons of fuel with a plane that staggers all over the sky, then in desperation gets some help with the carb...
You will find that "factory" settings are almost always way rich...
"factory" settings are the cause of most engine running problems...
You can't harm an engine setting the carb on the ground..
The high should be set for MAX rpm, then backed off until the engine just starts to slow down..
The low needle should be just richer than the point where transition is good...
We do this same topic over and over, look back through the posts..
Manufacturers are doing new owners a great disservice by not publishing carb setting instructions..
Maybe it's a CYA thing, let the owners fly around using up about 5 gallons of fuel with a plane that staggers all over the sky, then in desperation gets some help with the carb...
I still shake my head every time I see someone post on here that they are running the carb at "factory settings".
Why on earth would you take a brand new $500---$1500 engine out of the box, mount it on your plane (your $1500--$5000 plane) and fly the plane without adjusting the carb?
Factory setitngs don't mean diddly squat, unless you just happen to be at the exact same barametric pressure, altitude, humidity, and temperature as the guy who test fired the engine at the factory.
Do any of the factories actually adjust the engine? I'll bet money that if they even fire the engine-----all they do is fire it to make sure it runs, then toss it in the box. Probably don't even run it for 30 seconds. I seriously doubt that they ever touch the carb or adjust it for proper running.
You have nothing to loose by adjusting your carb--and everything to loose by running it stupid rich and low on power while mounted to your expensive airplane. Overly rich engines are the subject of much unhappiness in this hobby. Overly rich leads to gummed up rings, build up of carbon in the combustion chamber, fouled plugs, and on and on and on...............
Adjust your carbs people. [sm=thumbup.gif]
04-28-2006 | 06:13 AM
#17
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
Too much oil in the mix? Having run at 25-1 and 32-1 etc.,-I have not yet seen "too much oil".
Mixture setting is easy at these blends - and power is terrific-
The thing I really like is the nice "smooth" feel of the engine - - and easy starting etc..
The 32-1 or threabouts -- seems fine on the Mobil 1-and other pure synthetics .
My weedeaters and leaf blower like it too.
Mixture setting is easy at these blends - and power is terrific-
The thing I really like is the nice "smooth" feel of the engine - - and easy starting etc..
The 32-1 or threabouts -- seems fine on the Mobil 1-and other pure synthetics .
My weedeaters and leaf blower like it too.
04-28-2006 | 06:39 AM
#18
Senior Member
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
ORIGINAL: Silversurfer
There's only two reasons for a gasser to be making big messes. Mixture too rich and too much oil in the mix.
There's only two reasons for a gasser to be making big messes. Mixture too rich and too much oil in the mix.
Reducing oil is going up the downstairs.
04-28-2006 | 07:58 AM
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From: Copenhagen, DENMARK
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
Thanks for all the input.
First of all, I have plugged the smoke fitting. I will continue on the high oil percentage, maybe adjust the needles if I feel for it and otherwise live with it for now.
For those interested, I will post how the engine developes later in the season if I remember.
First of all, I have plugged the smoke fitting. I will continue on the high oil percentage, maybe adjust the needles if I feel for it and otherwise live with it for now.
For those interested, I will post how the engine developes later in the season if I remember.
04-29-2006 | 08:16 AM
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From: Worthington,
OH
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
Just clean it off using plain gas
Does the plain gas do any harm to the covering material, epoxy coated plywood, or paint?
04-29-2006 | 08:56 AM
#21
Senior Member
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
Not that I know of. Straight Gas, like methanol, is not agressive like synthetic lubricant, nitro or paint thinner.
The best way to find out, is to use the cleaning agent in a small place, not seen, and check out.
I am not a big fan of film covering, just because most fuels wreck the seams and that beautiful finish goes down the drain.
The best way to find out, is to use the cleaning agent in a small place, not seen, and check out.
I am not a big fan of film covering, just because most fuels wreck the seams and that beautiful finish goes down the drain.
04-30-2006 | 12:56 AM
#22
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RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
Sorry guys, but every time I run a lower ratio than 60 to 1, even adjusting the carb as accurately as possible, the engines always sling more crud on the plane. I agree that a brand new engine will be a bit messy at first, especially those that are rougher in the machine work than others. At the 80 to 1 mix I run ALL my engines at, the residue is minimal and the engine longevity is just fine. Those of the "old" school that still believe that 32 to 1 and higher is a great mix can keep it and change plugs a little more often.
The oil ratio thing has been beaten to death, up to and including which oil is the best. Whatever works best for the user is the way they should go. Now if I was racing planes and building up a lot more rpm I would consider thinking about increasing the ratio. As it stands. the planes I fly for work use a 50-1 mix and always come back dripping oil all over the place.
Pat
.
The oil ratio thing has been beaten to death, up to and including which oil is the best. Whatever works best for the user is the way they should go. Now if I was racing planes and building up a lot more rpm I would consider thinking about increasing the ratio. As it stands. the planes I fly for work use a 50-1 mix and always come back dripping oil all over the place.
Pat
.
04-30-2006 | 08:50 AM
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From: Goldsboro,
NC
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
My Evolution 58 looks like that ( Not quite as bad but still dirty)and it is running the Mobil 1 at factory ratio. As soon as its done running their supplied bottle the Mobil is history. It seems fine but the residue is hard to clean.
Belray H1R much better!!!
Belray H1R much better!!!
04-30-2006 | 01:01 PM
#24
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
Belray's HR-1 mixed @ 40:1 is known to run hotter and give approx. 15% less fuel economy than their MC-1 mixed @ 50:1.
Karol.
Karol.
04-30-2006 | 02:27 PM
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From: Wisconsin Rapids,
WI
RE: Gas engine mess during breaking in, is this excessive?
amsoil? Running the DA on it almost no mess but the Evolution? I heard someplace on these pages that it wont take the leaner mix.
