The DA's have been around for a long time thus it is proven technology.

The weight must have been lost from some part of the engine im just wondering where. Is it going to compromise the longevity of the motor? Id say no one knows this as they have only been around for three months.(if that). We are not talking about a small drop in weight from my understanding they are still using the same materials so what gives????

100 engines is not a large amount.

Dont get me wrong im interested in new technology just want to understand it.

Also i read a lot of bad press about the BME 110 but as you said this may have come from people who dont know a lot about engines and just slam it together and expect it to work. (the way an engine should work).

I dont think my question about weight and where it is lost is an unfair one just normal. I also dont think my skeptasism of new products is all bad there have been plenty of examples of new technology going bad. I am a "Newb" to this technnology but it doesnt stop me from asking the obviouse questions and trying to understand it the best i can.

Razorback you mention this is the latest technology where is the technological breakthrough? Is it the materials? Is it a new design if so whats new? Have they skimped on anything (Cooling fins) I dont think you can compare this engine to a ZDZ brick?

There is no difference in technology between the BME and the rest. The heavier engines use over the counter parts that are designed for much higher rpm. BME was able to save weight by lowering the engines mechanical limits to match our application. All aircraft engines are designed this way. BME did not publish any durability data but fortunately there is a lot of operational experience ahead of you. The word should get around if they start breaking.

YES very common . . but . . their money, their hobby. They are all cool for being part of it, and I guess most will learn a lot along the way . . It's all good ! !

ZDZ Brick?? ZDZ are a proven motor with a strong reputation. Have to say, there is a lot (maybe too much) of focus on weight of 100cc and bigger engines, and I think it is unwarranted. Frazer Briggs flies a 3M Extra with a DA200 4 cylinder . . I haven't seen the actual weight of this motor BUT believe me it will be heavy . . it has to be (More crank, 2 more conrods, 2 more pistons, 2 more barrels . . Oh . . and more "cooling fins" . . ). If you have ever seen Frazer fly that thing . . it looks far from weight affected and seems to defy gravity (He won the 2004 Tucson Shoot-Out with it by the way).

Some extra ounces on models this size can go very much un-noticed. While not necessarily the case, a heavier motor can mean more solid contruction ! ? ! Focus more on plane selection, flying and constuction skill, and less on engine weight (within reason) IMO . .

If anybody do a search about BME engines the same names always appear either promoting, defending or trying to make you buy these engines. I asked the same question in different thread a little while ago..... So much trouble defending an engine or hundreds of posts strongly pointing people in this brand direction makes you wonder.
I consider the BME light weight quite an achivement. Will I buy a BME 115?... no in fact I just bought a DA 100. I wonder how many DA 100 have been sold compare to BME´s 110 and 115?
The BME 110 is not what I will call a succes story, just do a search and anybody can find why. regarding the BME 115, many of them will have to be sold (in the range of 1000´s ), and some time will have to pass (talking about years) to even approach the reliability record of the DA 100. That´s the only reason I choose the DA, I am not really in the position to be a engine test bed at this time and just wanted something that keeps in the air and trouble free.
Regarding the power BME has been releasing engines with bigger displacement every time 100, 102, 105, 110, 115. The 115 is more powerful than the DA 100 Not kidding IT HAS TO BE. Let´s see what will happen when DA gets a new model out a 115, 125 or whatherever they put out.
In this engine race something like ZDZ did with the 80 gets all my respect. What I mean is not having to rely in more displacement to make more power but using new technology (design) instead!!!
Finally the DA is not the only option, If I was in a different position myself, like living in the states where I can have access to engine service easier, or if I have some people around me flying giant scale that can help me in case I have an engine trouble I might even consider the BME because the weight savings alone....

No war starting here, but I would like to make a point.

No one is actively promoting BME, nor is anyone paid to do so. Neither are there any sponsored high level pilots to go to all the contests in an effort to extoll the virtues of an engine after they win or place in a contest. With BME you also don't see 1/3 to full page ads in any magazines.

That said, one should by now be able to figure out how large sales volumes are made. Through advertising!! Advertising can be any form of media, such as magazines and contest sponsorships. It can also be by giving away engines to top flyers to have them actively promote them at contests at any level. In essence, increased sales volume comes from spending large amounts of money in the effort to make everyone believe you have the best simply because so many people use them, or so many people win contests with them. Even better if the contest winner gets to write articles for magazines. That's an extra kick as a side benefit. The engine does not have to be better than others, just used by high profile flyers that would have won the contests with a weedie conversion.

There are a lot of great engines available that are comparatively unused and unknown. Why, because they don't advertise. If I was to give a Herbrandson to 95% of the people flying a plane that could handle it, they would probably screw it up in a couple of flights. Worse, they likely would not accept it because they think it's only a racing engine. How wrong they are!! BME is in a similar position. They make superior engines at lighter weights. The weight is an area where they have been ahead of the pack for quite some time. The 110 was never an issue, but the knowledge level of the users was.

Zenoah is another manufacturer that greatly misunderstood until recently. Up until a year or so ago, or until the people that actually use them finally started talking about them, most thought they were heavy, gutless lumps that just happened to be inexpensive. Wrong again!! They just didn't care to go out and spend tens of thousands of dollars in advertising an already proven product. How misunderstood were they? A fair number of people that have bought them in the last year or so can't start them without an electric starter or converting them to electronic ignition. That's a lack of knowledge of the owners, not a defect in the engine. Those that read the directions and understand how to swing a prop can start them without any outside assist in only a few flips.

So how does BME make a lighter engine? If all the manufacturers knew they would be making them too. Are the fins a little smaller. Yep, but most engines have fins greatly oversized because they were designed to sit in a chainsaw and never move forward quickly through the air. Does the engine have a custom designed case? Yep, and so do 3W and DA. Should you baffle a twin cylinder BME in a cowled installation? Yep, but you should have been doing that with DA, 3W, and ZDZ. Why do you think a 3W cylinder turns pink when it gets too hot? Simply so 3W can tell when the user did not install and run the engine correctly.

So if you want to go with another manufacturer, great! Means nothing to me because I don't get a piece of anyone's pie. Personally I'm going to buy the best and lightest I can that provides the power I need and want. If that product turns out to be one that's not one of the market leaders it's no big deal. I've got enough time and experience with this hobby and it's engines that I understand what and why things work. If that knowledge gives me an edge in product shopping, so be it.

There's a lot going on in engine development that will be trickling down to this hobby in the next couple of years than most would be willing to believe. The manufacturers that will appear to be on the cutting edge two years from now won't have been doing anything new. In fact, they will have already been using the designs and technology for several years before the average modeler even knew it existed. You folks don't really think that the costs of engine R&D are supported by R/C, do you?

Ultimately, go where you want to go and buy what you want to buy. There's leaders and followers and most don't even know what group they fall into, or that they were led there.

Andreas, you have to consider that not everyone that buys a BME 115 or any other brand of motor for that fact surfs the forums and posts their opnions on them. I have flown the big 3, DA, 3W, and BME 115 (and a 110). You will find most of the BME 110 problems to being user induced. This motor had to be baffled, and a majority of folks who ruined them ran them lean as they were not baffled. The 115 is a refined 110 and has all the minor issues that the 110 worked out. Its a great motor and I would buy another one just for the pure weight savings you gain from it. BME has no desire to mass produce and sell thousands of engines like DA, if you dont believe me call Keith up and ask him. He is a small shop, and prefers to do it that way and build custom engines. Trust me, the 115 is a custom engine compared to the run of the mill 3Ws and DAs. IMO the sole advantage of the 115 is the fact you can add a cannister exhaust, headers, couplers, etc, and still be a few ounces lighter than a DA or 3W with stock mufflers. I know a lot of folks dont like adding another 1.5lbs to their 35% planes to run cans, and this motor makes that happen without the weight penalty. I like light planes, so if you do too, take 1.83lbs of lead weight in your hands and see how heavy that feels to you. If you say, dang, I would never want that much extra weight, then a 115 is for you. If you are joe flyer who doesnt mind big heavy planes, by all means just use any of the other 100s. I am not trying to sell anyone anything. You can read all my posts and see that I have tried about every other combo on the market, and when something else comes along you can bet I will try that too. No brand loyalties here.

I have to agree with Ralph, Silversurfer, and razrback.
To tell you the truth I have never had a bad engine from any of the top manufacturers.
3W,DA,ZDZ,Zenoah,etc all make very good engines. I and a few others have choose to go with one that is a little lighter and on the cutting edge.
You aren't using a 286 processor in your computer any more are you???

bird-0f-prey, I wish I was getting kickbacks, I pay full boat just as everyone else does.

AndresAM, I have commented on BME quite a bit, because I have used them (others too) and I can give an honest opinion. You will also notice I have NEVER in any of my posts degraded any manufacturer and believe me they ALL have there weak and strong points. I have recommended other engines for other applications, but in the 100cc class I tend to lean to wards the 115 at this time.

One more thing, razrback ain't BS'ing when he say he has owned and flown a lot of plane/engine combinations out there. He changes planes like I change my under wear

The BME 115 is definately the most light/powerful engine in the 100CC market.
3W/ZDZ/DA have more ressources available to repair and support their products while BME seem to be a one man show.

The only thing that bother me is the answer to the following question:
Where may i go to repair my engine, if BME owner makes a heart attack or become sick for a long period of time? This could be a concern for IMAC fliers who can not wait more than 2 weeks to get their engine back from the factory before the next event.

Daniel

Dan you do have a point. Life is a crap shoot sometimes. If that were to happen I am sure someone would pick it up, but that would take time.

Indeed.
Another solution would be to buy two BME 115! Just to be on the safe side..

Awww, heck, you'd prolly do that just so you could have two planes ready to go at any given time...

What makes a BME 115 a custom engine? special porting job done, testing and running it at the factory, special and exotic materials used....?
I was also wondering what is the real displacement on this engine? 110 CC, 115 CC? Is there anything special (or custom for that matter) in this engine´s design that results in more power compare to the 3W, ZDZ and DA besides the obvious displacement difference?
I seriously doubt 3W, DA or ZDZ wont have the capacity of producing a light engine like this, maybe they just don´t want to do it. Designing is always a compromise, you just have to give up some things to gain others.

Andres from the web site.
bore=46
stroke=36
pie r squared and all of that stuff, I believe it is actually 116 if I did not make a mistake in my calculations.
As for custom,,Not highly massed produced, assembled with more care, quality control of higher standards, Maybe that is what razrback meant..............................

Better still. Rather than have all of us alledged BME "shills" try to explain what makes his engines different or better, call the man direct and have him explain it to you. I believe you'll find that not much of the 115 is "off the shelf". I'm not going to be the one to publically delve into proprietary engineering belonging to any given company.

Since I'm not a salesman I won't try to sell it to you. You can elect or decline to do that on your own. You always have the "Torch" and "Chroma" lines local to you for a back up. Those and others share a lot of common parts.

Getting back to the original question, the 3w-106 is an excellent engine, just heavy.

I doubt Keith at BME will keel over and leave you without a motor, Steve Reinke also helps repair them at the shop as well. Bird, if you have this much doubt, why even bother with this motor? I would think with you being in Australia DA would be the logical choice since they have a service center there. I doubt you will have to send in your 115, but if you did it could take some time and $$, with the DA center there it would only take a week or so to get back in the air, my guess a month if you have to send the motor back here. As for a custom motor, the 115 is the only 100cc engine that is currently using the latest 6 port design, none of the other 100cc engines are. Keith has taken a look at cylinder technology (most of the technology we are currently using is decades old) and modified it for our use. I.E. the fins are thinner, they do not need to be as thick as the DA or 3W. I admire Keith for taking an idea and running with it, developing the idea and product of light and more power. There have been 100-200 or so BME 115s out there, if there were problems you would have heard about it and seen a bunch of them for sale. Its a great motor, but don't doubt it until you try it. If nothing else, leave all this conversation out of your buying process, and try one your self for an unbiased opinion, that will give you the best answer to your question about the 115. The phone number is on BMEs website, why not pick a time of the day where you can reach Keith and just ask him? If you had a question about a DA, wouldn't you call them? We aren't trying to sell you a 115, just giving our honest opinion on it. Trust me, if something is bad, I am the very first person to step up and say something about it.

PS, you can email [email protected] and [email protected] and they can give you some more unbiased info about the 115. Here is a link to a 115 on a WH sukhoi, its in different parts of the vid.

http://www.dodvideos.com/Kyle_tx_dod_flyin_mre_2.wmv

My original question was for opinions on the 3w-106. I didnt mean to start a war. All of the mentioned 100cc class motors have their good and bad points. I was just wondering if the 106 was a good motor, thats all. By the way I love my DA-100 and my old 3w-100 (except when it flamed out in a low hover). I'll bet I would love a BME, ZDZ and a Kroma too, but my experiences are only with the 2 I own.

Sorry for the side track/hi-jack. Yes the 106 is a very good motor, you will not be disappointed with it. Follow some of the advice given about baffling, setup, and you will have a long life on that motor.

eraser,

It was a fun trip though, right?

"What a long strange trip its been". Actually, some very good information discussed here. Now if we can get some Kroma guys to chime in.

Sorry to stir the emotions up, i was a bit grumpy yesterday and could have put my question a bit more subtly....

Did get quite a responce though AND sorry for the hijack

You guys have heaps of good info, this is by far the best gas forum.

Cheers big ears!

I have a 106 in my H9 Sukhoi. I had some problems with it early on that were self induced. I would buy another and am considering a 157. I have also owned a 75i and have an 80xi CS

I was starting to get a little testy as well. No biggie, we had some good talk, right?

All good surfer...i was worried i might of offended but im very hard to offend things just bounce off me...All good

Kiss and makeup

When you coming to Australia ...youll have to drop in and say hi

That may be sooner than anyone thinks. If it happens be sure I'll drop a note