DA web site has tuned pipe for $195. Thats kind of $$$Ouch!

I'm looking for performance only! I don't care about the noise.
Currently using the stock exaust on my PA Edge but thinking about buying the new EF Extra.

What other options are out there?

Zenoah stuff mostly fits

Spacing is 42.5mm at manifold on Zenoah 62 and 40mm on DL/DA. I just bought this tuned pipe/silencer and havn't tried it yet. But, it LOOKS quiet and is supposed to add 25% power

There is room to trim 1mm out of each mounting hole on this S/S header.

The price? Well about the same []

Mac's Products: http://www.macspro.com/tunedpipes.asp

ES Composites: http://www.escomposites.com/petrol.htm

RC Showcase: http://www.rcshowcase.com/html/accessories/amt.html


Mark

Any Experience with the RCS pipe? or any of the others?
Will that work with a DA50? This plane has a tunnel down the middle, wouldn't I need a "bendy" header?

Any more?

No experience with any of them actually. If you have a central pipe tunnel, then you will want to use a wrap around header. Karl Mueller makes the nicest ones around, not cheap but superb work. Mac's MAY do one if you ask nice. RC Showcase have them for the ZDZ's, not sure if they will work on anything else.

You may also want to consider a canister system, they can make good power and be pretty quiet (not that you are concerned about noise). There are also tuned canisters which will be in between a normal canister and a pipe in power output. I have no info on those at all.

Mark

If you count the extra price over a pitts muffler, and the extra power you get, you pay about $ 90 per horsepower. Not too expensive in my book. A normal engine has about the same price.
The 4-chamber pipe was develloped for the DA50 in particular. Although made for a smaller engine, I am testing it now on a mvvs58 with 24x10 prop @ 6650-6700 rpm, and am thrilled by the throttle response and quiet operation. I get just the HP that MVVS states in their data sheets. That tuned pipe is what many have been waiting for.

We went thru a pi--ing contest here - a DA50 vs a ZDZ50- on pipes
Not my idea but I watched anyway -
when it was all over and the smoke cleared - performance on any given prop and pipe combo was about the same --on the bench
on 22x8 Mejzlic - 7500+ was normal
I setup a ZDZ50 3 years ago on ame setup (actually using the AMT pipe and the results were excellent--as long as you stayed on the 22x8 prop
shifting to 24x8 -
new ballgame - on either engine you MUST increase header till rpms on the ground are in mid 6000 range or performance is a flop - grumbling , dead spots top end going lean -on and on.

I see veeeery few tuned pipe setups which really boost power --and do NOT cause a lousy midrange peformance

Maybe my standards for performance are different than others

in early 90's we piped .60 OS engines for 15000- ground and 20000 in the air
huge power -shi--y performance when it was all said n done. nothing smooth about it
The guys who are happy with their setups typically match prop and pipe and get secent boost and workable midrange
Frankly I don't think anyone has a "secret"or perfect" pipe for any engine -- just a pipe that works in certain pipe/prop combos
My 80 ZDZpipe setup was very unimpressive on first runs - I had a undersized prop load and ran at rpms above best tuning - switching to larger props I found the combo that matched -never touched the pipe or header .
I have had yahoos claim my results are "impossible " because they can't do it (actually never even tried).
My point is decide what power rpm band you want to run in - buy any pipe of large enough size -then experiment till you find right prop combo.

Here is a good example what tuned pipes do versus pitts, and standard mufflers.
For tuned pipes, I would take the 830mm length for 3D flight, the 730 length for all out power with the engine tuned in the sweet spot, and aerobatics maybe slightly shorter than the 830, so the engine will not spin up so readily.
From these graphs, it is very clear what the muffler and header length influence is on engine performance and characteristics.

I suspect that chart was done using the same propeller (load) in each example.
If------ you alter the propeller load to optomize results with each exhaust system - the curves would not be the same

Dick -
How did the stock DA mufflers stack up to the pipes in tests?
The stock mufflers look like sh*t on the plane but seem to work well.

Pe,what length of header do like on the 58 for a good midrange.i have done searches and found that you used a 25cm length and a 24-12 prop.
i have a 58 and useing a 30cm length header and a 24-8 beila and getting 7500 with it on a ES composite pipe i started out with a 34cm length header.i am trying to get away from not having a peaky set up and a good midrange for 3d. this is my first pipe set up and trying to see what others like. just to give me a idea where to start before i start shorting the header anymore.
THANKS

The figures you mention, were done with canister mufflers, and one old type Krumscheid pipe for comparison
I have not extensively tested the 58 with tuned pipes yet, just have started with the MTW RE2, and 40 cm! header length. One reading yet at 6650 rpm and 6.65 Horsepower. According to MTW, the DA (to stay a bit on topic) needs about 35 cm for sweet spot tuning. For 3D, the header should be longer in order to get quick spin-up, and good full rpm limiting.
In the power curves for the Zenoah 62 is clear what short and long header pipes do to the location and peakiness of power curves. The widest curve is obtained when the pipe is tuned for the range that the engine works best in: the sweet spot. For Zenoah this is 9000 rpm.

Dick, these are all power curves in that chart, done with different muffler systems and dyno! Charts like that would not be possible with one single prop. They exactly prove what you stated in the post before that.
These charts are handy to plot your particular prop load in, so at any rpm, you can see the spare power available for spinning up (accellerating) the prop.
DA, 3W and MVVS do not have the sweet spot at such high rpm, so they need longer lengths from piston skirt to reflector cone middle or reflector plate if no cone is present.
Now, Dyno work is one thing, field work will not match that exactly, because the pipe temperature plays a BIG part in the power game. Yet the dyno work leads one to conclusions for where to look for best final setup.

Thanks Pe for your imput that helps me.

You're welcome.

My Latest test data on the 58, using two tuned pipe header lengths on the MTW tuned pipe (the one for DA), MTW TD75 canister, KS canister, and the MVVS canister setup.

The 400mm long header sets up the tuned pipe engine in the sweet spot, the short 300mm header makes for a more finicky engine. Loads of power, but only with the right setup.
Edit:
I hope the picture explains all.
The MTW tuned pipe on the shorter 300mm header shows that the typical torque hump at 3/4 of best torque rpm enters the operating window of our props (5500 - 6500 rpm) A slightly shorter header might be even called for to take advantage of this.

Not for me, but this tecnical stuff hurts my head. You Big Brain guys are great to have around but hard to understand sometimes.
You got three pipes x two header leinghs x testing for two things (torque & HP) = To me there should be 12 lines on your graph but I see 8.

How about a quick written conclusion?
I think for my DA50 its "buy the DA pipe, use a longer header"

Pipes-- (sigh)
if you want plug n play results - -you came to the wrong place .
reading charts is easy for guys who use charts all the time but for others - a complete mystery -
notice that the best torque happens at different rpms .
Also the torque curves and horsepower curves are not the same
now what?
well -you can't just keep changing pipes and header lengths and going up all the time
there is an absolute "totally maxed out" point - but the charts really don't state that.
basically - the best -smooth running setup (nice even midrange ) -is your goal
To do that - you will NEVER get peak power- but you will get a few hundred rpm increase on typical props for that engine (which is a LOT of power increase)
be ready and accept that your combo must go thru some mix n match of props and header lengths -if you want best results.

[sm=cry_smile.gif]
I know, I'm gonna have to do some of the work.[&o]
But I'm sure there are conclusions about the different pipes that can be make at this point.

Dick, you have the patience of a saint.

Indeed.

Pe.
Thank you for carrying out these tests and providing these graphs. They make some interesting reading.
The MVVS 3204 canister displays a remarkable flat power curve, smack on 5 Hp throughout from 5600-7400 rpm. Never seen anything like it.

I get 6240 rpm with a 24x10 MenzS on the 58 Prosport, which according to your prop/power calculator translates to 5,70 Hp. This is with the MVVS 3204 Can. I also get very similar revs. with the same propeller and a MTW-TD110K. Interestingly, this is exactly the revs where the power curves for the two different cans cross each other. (Although you tested the TD-75K)

Comparing this to the MTW-T2 at 400mm header length, you are showing a whopping power increase of more than 40% (@7000 rpm).
Dick Hanson stated above:
During your tests, did you get a feel for how the midrange, and general "throttleability" is for the engine with the T2 pipe @ 7000 rpm?
Also, you have a measurement at 7100 rpm, which propeller was this with?

Kind regards,
Magne