Notices
Gas Engines Questions or comments about gas engines can be posted here

MVVS 58 Pro Power

Old 03-26-2008, 09:30 AM
  #1  
Thread Starter
 
BaldEagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,671
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default MVVS 58 Pro Power

I am thinking of getting a 2.6M Xtreme Composite Edge, would the 58 Pro be enough? people already with this plane fitted with a 100cc are getting 6700rpm with a 27x10 would the pro pull this with a tuned pipe?

Mike
Old 03-26-2008, 09:56 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
DarZeelon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rosh-HaAyin, ISRAEL
Posts: 8,913
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

Whoa! Easy does it, Mike.

The MVVS 58 cc is one powerful engine and slightly more so is its Pro version, but it does not quite make power like a 100 cc DA, or 3W.

Old 03-26-2008, 10:52 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Posts: 6,571
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

A 27x10 narrow blade requires about 9 HP for 6700 rpm. It takes a very good 100 twin to do that, and I am not inclined to believe all those data without asking questions first.
To get 8 hp out of a 58 prosport, you would need to run it at about 7500 - 8000 rpm. That will not do with a 27x10, unless you use a reduction gear to get prop rpm down to 6500

Getting the engine up to 9 hp, even higher rpm is needed, and some modding (some call that hop-up) is in order.
Old 03-27-2008, 07:26 AM
  #4  
Thread Starter
 
BaldEagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,671
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

Thanks for the feedback gentlemen, I suppose it was a forlorn hope, but I had to ask, the 58pro has so much power in my QQ Yak I was just looking for something to change it into, I am thinking of putting my MVVS 45 back into it to get the weight down and move the C of G back, so gentlemen whould you consider the maximum weight airframe I could put the 58 Pro into and still get pull out authority from a prop hang? dosn't have to be rocket like just authoritve.

Mike
Old 03-27-2008, 02:23 PM
  #5  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NETHERLANDS
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

ORIGINAL: BaldEagel
I am thinking of getting a 2.6M Xtreme Composite Edge, would the 58 Pro be enough?
Mike, why is the MVVS80 no option for you?
Old 03-27-2008, 02:43 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Posts: 6,571
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power


ORIGINAL: BaldEagel

Thanks for the feedback gentlemen, I suppose it was a forlorn hope, but I had to ask, the 58pro has so much power in my QQ Yak I was just looking for something to change it into, I am thinking of putting my MVVS 45 back into it to get the weight down and move the C of G back, so gentlemen whould you consider the maximum weight airframe I could put the 58 Pro into and still get pull out authority from a prop hang? dosn't have to be rocket like just authoritve.

Mike
I think a 24 lbs plane would still be lots of fun with the prosport, but the upper limit for good vertical accelleration.
Old 03-28-2008, 06:37 AM
  #7  
Thread Starter
 
BaldEagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,671
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

Pe

You have hit the weight right on the head, some of the guys with one all ready have got theirs down too 24Lbs with a 100cc in them, the only additional problem I can see is the weight bias towards the rear, I would probably have to install the elevator servos under the canopy and close loop them to the rear just to get some weight forward. Will keep you informed.

Mike
Old 03-28-2008, 07:49 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Posts: 6,571
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

This is the first time I hear someone say the engine is too light???
I thought that a rearward bias is excellent for 3D. It is not my stuff, so I am just guessing. In a flight simulator, when landings get difficult and need down elevator, 3D becomes increasingly easier.
Old 03-28-2008, 10:00 AM
  #9  
Thread Starter
 
BaldEagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,671
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

Thats the problem with the latest technology they can be too light as the aircraft manufacturers have not caught up yet, on my Xtreme Composite Edge 2M I had to put lead in the nose to get the recommended G of G, took it out after flying the plane and getting the C of G to where I like it.

On the 2.6M Edge some of the guys using 100cc engines have had problems getting the C of G forward enough, going to the extreme (pun intended) of putting trays in the cowl to take batteries to move the weight forward, that's why I am considering closed loop for the elevator instead of using the provided servo position inside the tailplane, this would move the servo weight forward close to the C of G, I know you know this, but for clarity an ounce at the back is worth appoximatley four ounces at the front (4:1 ratio between the C of G) so two Hitec 5955's which weigh four and one half ounces at the back would be the equivilant of eighteen ounces in the nose, that could be enough, what do you think?

Mike
Old 03-28-2008, 11:16 AM
  #10  
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Locust, NC
Posts: 685
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

Unless you already have the 2.6m Edge, I would look for a different airframe. I'd hate to build a plane that was marginal on power, and then have to retrofit it with a bigger engine. Just my $.02
zx32tt
Old 03-28-2008, 11:46 AM
  #11  
Thread Starter
 
BaldEagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,671
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

zx32tt

The thing is I already have the 58 Pro in a grosly overpowered Yak and was just asking the question to see if it would work, plus I can get the 2.6M Edge at a very competitive price.

But and its a big but, I think I may go for a new engine its just a matter of whether I go for the new MVVS 80 or the MVVS 116.

Mike
Old 03-28-2008, 03:53 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Posts: 6,571
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

I'll have the 116 with my current shipment that is being prepared right now. The 80 will take slightly longer.
I am afraid, that the 2.6 edge will be grossly overpowered as well if you go with the 116.
Old 03-29-2008, 01:16 PM
  #13  
 
RAMMJETT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NOBEL, ON, CANADA
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

i think mvvs would have been better served making a 70cc .this size engine would not so closely mirror the power of the 116 .as the 80 cc most likely will.i think da sort of shot themselves in the foot making the 85 .it is a very nice engine but actually can replace there 100cc with less weight .i would like a engine that turns a 26x8 with athority.seem like this engine size keeps getting overlooked unless you go for a heavier 80 twin.Just a thought
Old 03-30-2008, 07:52 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Posts: 6,571
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

there allways will be opinions but:
the 26 has 2.5 - 4.0 hp
the 35 has 3 - 4.5
the 45 has 4.0-5.5 hp
the 58 has 5-8 horses
the 80 will have 7-10
the 116 has 9-13
the 152 will be 11 - 15

I think this is a nice range with seamless overlapping of power when you want to choose between higher torque or higher rpm.
Old 03-30-2008, 10:27 AM
  #15  
 
RAMMJETT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NOBEL, ON, CANADA
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

that is intresting. must have been the basis for da .but it does not take in to account torque of the engine.that is why the 80 single will have aprox the same usable torque as a larger twin.you know as well as i do engines do not live @ max hp.i think if you mesured the two torque curves at 6500 rpm. it would be a mutch closer race.remember effective load or (prop) is a constant .i cant just use a smaller prop to get higher hp (prop becomes less effective).if what you were saying were true thier would be a seamless range of prop choice.Anyhoo i love your engines and am in the process of getting the 58 .just trying to get that 70cc hole filled .it would be best to over lap torque curves.this would give best overall "usable" power (prop choice)
Old 03-31-2008, 02:59 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Praha, CZECH REPUBLIC
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

Hi,
I am waiting 80 ccm. It will be ASAP.
Old 04-05-2008, 05:50 PM
  #17  
 
RAMMJETT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NOBEL, ON, CANADA
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

All the best luck with your sales.
Old 08-25-2008, 03:24 AM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oulu, FINLAND
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

What is the suggested prop for MTW piped 58 prosport? Mainly 3D and I will start with MenzS woodie. Engine and pipe is still in Pe's shelf but ordering it during winter Just collecting all the parts for the plane in advance. I haven't even selected the plane but something in 50cc class(Yak, sukhoi).
Old 09-18-2008, 04:23 AM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MadridMadrid, SPAIN
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

BaldEagle:

For your information:
I have the 2.6 Extrem Com Edge with a 3W85Xi, which is not a "light" engine, and I had to move EVERYTHING ahead to get the right CG.
If you decided to put a 80, you may need also a tuned pipe. Mine is using a ks pipe up to 120 cc The output is 6.300 rpm with 3W 28x10 wood prop, and that is more than enought.
Pe is right, with the 116 you will be overpowered, but it will be easyer to install. Ifyou put the 80, you will have to work in the plane. By the way, the tail of this plane is very heavy.
Hope this helps.

Regards,
Javier
Old 09-18-2008, 10:31 AM
  #20  
Thread Starter
 
BaldEagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,671
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

Javier

Thanks for the infomation, as Pe has said the 58 Pro is capable of producing 8HP under the right circumstances, I think what I am going to have to do is put a 28 x 10 on the 58 Pro and see what results I get at least then I will know one way or the other.

Mike

P.S. On my way to Spain next week for a short break, hope the weather holds out there.
Old 09-18-2008, 10:59 AM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
DarZeelon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rosh-HaAyin, ISRAEL
Posts: 8,913
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

Mike, Javier,


I think the right size is closer to a 24x10; not a 28x10...

That size is for much larger engines.
Old 09-18-2008, 11:33 AM
  #22  
Thread Starter
 
BaldEagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,671
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

Dar

Javier is talking about his 3W85xi that he has the 28 x 10 on and I am just wondering what revs the 58Pro would pull with that prop, I know the correct one for the 58 is about a 24 x 10, but I use a 22 x 10 three blade due to ground clearance and had to restrict the throttle to stop it going over 7500rpm which is where I chickened out, at the moment this is just an excersize for information.

Mike
Old 09-19-2008, 02:09 AM
  #23  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MadridMadrid, SPAIN
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

Mike,

another pice of information is always wellcome ... BTW, this weekend I'm doing something similar. A friend of mine has a 58 just broken in. I have to tune a KS pipe for him, but the prop is Menz 24x10. I have the torque and power chart published by Pe for this engine, so, I will try to reproduce his numbers ...

Which part of Spain are you visiting? Weather in the south is very different from the north ...

Old 09-19-2008, 07:01 AM
  #24  
Thread Starter
 
BaldEagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,671
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

Javier

I this the standard 58 or the Pro you are playing with, as it would be interesting to see the difference between the two, I have a JFX 24 x 10 I could put on and record the results, but this would be different to the Menz, but as you say any additional information is always good to have.

I am going to the South East area, near to the Costa's, not sure of the name as its a friend of ours that is taking us to their Vila, I will find out the name of the village and let you know.

Mike
Old 09-19-2008, 04:12 PM
  #25  
blw
My Feedback: (3)
 
blw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 9,447
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: MVVS 58 Pro Power

I'm moving this to Gas Engines since it is way past the manufacturers support theme.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.