pe reivers

I too like to say that engines run on oil. It provides the slippery surface that makes the engine go faster and do so longer.
More oil does not mean more carbon. Too little of the stuff makes for more friction, and more internal heat. Too little oil, and the piston has a hard time to transmit heat to the cylinder wall.
Too little oil, and the crankshaft front seal will run dry and fail.
Tests with a 26cc engine have shown best fuel economy at a 32:1 mix.
If the engine gets larger, leaner oil mixes are possible, because a lot more fuel flows through the engine. Yet some small parts will still need to get wet with oil, so qudruple sized engines could do with less, but not much less.
It needs a special oil if it is to accumulate well in only those spots where it is dearly needed. Some call it snake oil, some call it miracle oil.
I feel good using more oil, because I know, when I disassemble my engine, all parts are slippery with oil that was refreshed frequently.

icando3d2

My Feedback: (15)

well i have just finished reading this wonderful thread and would like to say that i was doing some inspections of my engine because ive noticed it being a little low on power so i pulled the mufflers to find an scuffed cylinder wall. Its a Da 150 and its a good engine but ive been running Royal Purple because its easy to get at my store and its a good brand... WEll im miffed ive been running it 40:1 and it has failed Im hoping that a oil change and some gallons throug the engine will allow it to continue to run if not new rings and cylinder.

Ed

WOW ! What a wake up call ! At someones suggestion, I have been running Amsoil at 80:1. TOM, and/or others, if I was to switch immediately to something like Red Line at 50:1, could I expect that carbon gunk to get flushed out of my engines ? ? ? And would you suggest RED LINE AT 40:1. or 50: 1 ? ? ?

Thanks gyz > Ed

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Ed,

As soon as you make the change, to Redline from 32 up to 50-1, or Stihl HP Ultra between 31 and 50-1, your engine will initiate a self cleaning process.

As Pe noted earlier, engines run on oil. The more carbon you flush from an engine the better shape it stays in. More oil also can equate to a little more power for a variety of reasons. The early damage that occurs in an engine is ring sticking and oil plating. Rings find it hard to stick if there is little carbon that gets stuck on the top of and behind the ring. Oil plating doesn't happen if the engine is not run lean or too hot, and if the ring doesn't get stuck. The pair are inter-related.

Inspite of the several people that like to extoll the virtues of Royal Purpal, they seem to be the few that have had good results from the stuff. The best of the best so far is the Stihl, with Redline coming in a fairly close second.

Ed

Thanks TOM. I mix a new batch of gas using Red Line at 40:1 next week, and start a new life for my 5 gas engines.

Thank you sir.

Ed

MX240

My Feedback: (4)

Where do you guys find "Redline" oil??
What store??
Is it online?
Jim

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

http://www.redlineoil.com/dealers.aspx

Speedway Motors, Inc. Distance: 19 Miles Lincoln, NE 68528 (800)979-0122 Countyline Motorsports Distance: 40 Miles 178 County Road Y Tobias, NE 68453 402-243-2318

MX240

My Feedback: (4)

Thanks w8ye,
Speedway Lincoln is about a 100 miles east of me. I tried the link at 50 miles and got nothing with my zip code.
I just drove 340 miles one way for a fun fly....so this little trip is nothing.
Will give them a call today.
Thanks
Jim

Whistling Death

I knew this thread was going to be entertaining and I wasn't disappointing.

Ed

Another Red Line question - If as TOM says, it is almost as good as Stihl, so can Red Line also be safely mixed at ratios of 50: 1 ?

I run Zenoah, DA, and Chinese engines.

Ed

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I certainly hope so since I've been using that ratio for the past 5 years or so Yes, 50-1 is fine but DA engines seem to need a 40-1 mix.

Ed

" Yes, 50-1 is fine but DA engines seem to need a 40-1 mix. "

Interesting ................. Why would this be ? ? ?

Charlie P.

T.O.M.,

I have been running Husqvarna XP (a synthetic) for years and now, for some reason, all I can lately find locally is their LS ("Low Smoke" - mineral & synthetic). Any thoughts or experience on the LS? Probably out of the same tanks as Stihl. I'm lazy and find it easier to burn the same oil in my chainsaw, outboards, snowblower and tiller, altering the mix as needed. I also mix up from 50:1 to 40:1 for my R/C by adding Marvel Mystery Oil (which, if not "snake oil", is close). I buy it by the gallon and a cup of this to every 10 gallons as a penetrating oil to the unleaded gas I feed my lead era '56 tractor as word around the stove at tractor meets is that it helps tired 'ol rings in tractors that may sit unused for months.

Anyway, regarding this thread, I'd rather run a little rich, burn a few MORE carbons (and those who think a hydrocarbon molecule like heptane (aka: "gasoline") doesn't make carbon with or without added oil are misinformed) and lose 10% of the top-end on an engine I normally run at half-throttle anyway and have it around for a dozen years or better than burn it out in a season at 100:1 mix. I'm especially of that mind now that all I can buy is 10% ethanol mix and the alchohol does nothing to add to lubricity.

MX240

My Feedback: (4)

OK, I have called the two Redline dealers in this state and they don't stock it and are not interested in ordering it.
Any you guys have a dealer that is willing to send a case of this stuff out by mail??
Jim

delateurj

Perhaps this will help. Free shipping if you are Amazon Prime member:

[link=http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-Two-Stroke-Racing/dp/B000T9TMIS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1281983852&sr=8-3]Redline at Amazon[/link]http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-Two-Stroke-Racing/dp/B000T9TMIS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1281983852&sr=8-3

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

When a manufacturer makes a top of the line engine, like Stihl, Husky, Shindawa, Poulan, and Echo, and also promote their own brands of oil, you have to figure they have both the engine and the customer in line. Those manufacturers produce engines intended to make 1,000 hours of life cycle under severe operating conditions with minimal maintenance. If I was using Echo or Husky oils and followed the bottle directions I would never worry about the lubrication in my engine.

As for why a DA likes more oil with some brands of oil is something I'm not at liberty to discuss. However, they function quite well and for a very long period of time at 40-1. More oil is always better anyway, so it's a moot point.

captinjohn

Just like Antique says "more oil more power" Good post TOM !

MX240

My Feedback: (4)

Amazon....I should have known.
Ya, I can do that.
Thanks
Jim

Capt Midnight

Well, I guess its time for me to add my own 2 cents worth to this discussion (err.. thread?)

I had an interesting discussion with Jeff Olmstead at DA back in June. I had sent him a DA50 to inspect for crash damage, and called him for status. He said the motor was OK, but that I was using way too much oil (in the repair form sent in with the motor, I mentioned I was using Amsoil Sabre Professional 100:1 oil, but mixed at 40:1 as directed in the instruction sheets) and the engine was getting heavily carboned up and would have to be cleaned. He also indicated the piston ring was starting to seize up, and would take care of that also.

Jeff asked why I was using such a heavy fuel/oil mixture (40:1); I told him that was due to the oil mixture ratios mentioned in the instruction sheets. Jeff said that using Amsoil Professional at 40:1 was the equivalent to using Lawnboy at 20:1; i.e., the motor would get heavily carboned-up very fast, and that I should move to using a higher (80:1 to 100:1) ratio if I continued using Amsoil Professional.

I was a little hesitant at first in making the change, but what the hell... this was coming straight from the horse's mouth at DA, and these guys have to stand by their engines with their 3-year warranty. So I made the change in small increments up from 40:1 starting with 60:1, then going to 80:1 (where I'm at right now) with 3 different DA50-R engines, and noting any changes along the way. Of the 3 DA50's I'm working with, 2 are low hour engines (2 to 3 hrs in 2010) bought this year, and the 3rd is a well used (40+ hours logged in 2009) motor that I had sent to Jeff. No tear-downs are planned as of yet, all though I might later in the year if I start to see something unusual occurring.

One observation thus far; in moving to each higher mixture ratio, I've had to re-tune each engine (lean out the low and high speed screws), as I suspect with less oil / more gas being used on each power stroke, there will be more small incremental changes in this area also.

BTW, this year I made a total committed fuel change in all my gas engines in switching to completely ethanol-free gasoline (93 octane, from which I have extracted ALL the ethanol). This results in a more powerful, cleaner burning engine with none of the corrosive problems associated with using ethanol-gasoline commonly found at the gas pumps, and the Tygon fuel tubing lasts longer and doesn't get stiff as it did in the past. It is also cheaper to make/use than 100LL Av Gas (which sells for $5.50 / gal at most FBO's)

As was mentioned else-where in this thread, switching to 100:1 is not for everyone, but neither is making your own fuel. Doing both at the same time requires some degree of common sense and caution. DA engines are not cheap, but neither are my airplanes.

Thanks,

B

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Better not tell the professional two stroke racers that more oil is bad. Not unless you like uncontrolled laughter at your expense. If you're into power and run hard you could find yourself running at 16-1 in a New York second. Yes, ratios have to be tuned specific to the mix. Once you've established the ratio you tune the mixture. That's air/fuel mixture not oil/fuel mixture. The latter tuning takes care of itself when you tune the former. That's something well understood by anyone that seriously uses two strokes. Change the oil type, ratio, and/or propeller and plan on retuning. Same with fuel types.

Amsoil makes carbon, and a very hard layer of it indeed. The only question is the amount of time needed, and that's determined by the engine owner. Too many of us that run engines hard and get them warmer than most RC two strokes learned this long ago. One last thought. If other oils do a better job of cleaning, lubricating, and cooling an engine when more is used, also increasing power in the process, what make Amsoil better? It certainly does not improve with quantity, and it hates heat, which is often generated when less oil is used.

hanko

Klotz Model Lube 310 at 40 to 1, makes no carbon. I have a G26 I took apart for grins after at least 10, probably closer to 15 gallons. It looked brand new inside

Moki 1.8

My Feedback: (11)

Hey guys, I have a question, I talked to Jody from valley view the other day about the Stihl oil. I told him that it was kinda hard for me to get the penzzoil and would like to see about switching over to the stihl oil. He told me thats what he uses and it would definatley be sufficient. I noticed earlier that yall mentioned something about ultra synthetic stihl oil, the bottles that I bought dont say that. There orange bottles that say high performance stihl oil. We have a large stihl dealer here and they had thousands of these little bottles, but there was only one choice. They didnt have one that said synthetic and one that said regular. Do I have the rite stuff? On the back it just talks about mixing instructions. This little bottle only holds 2.6 fl.oz So do I have the rite stuff?

FLPilot

My Feedback: (23)

The HP Ultra I use comes in a white bottle. The orange bottle is not the same product.

Moki 1.8

My Feedback: (11)

So there is two different kinds. Maybe I overlooked it in the store, i'll have to go back and look again.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The orange bottle is mineral oil like the Pennzoil

The Stihl Dealer near my house only had the Orange last year. Now he has both.