Tseres

RC P I

My questions still hasn't been answered.

Why do you buy R/C gas engines? Is it to fly planes or to compare them to one another? You already stated that you are not a rich man.

Something smells rotten to me.

Checklst

Hey RC Pile just stick to the plan of having a good time with a couple of well made engine, and let the few egos that are looking to pee up a rope due so. I already have seen value in what you have done....your strip down of these 2 engines (was worth the price of admission alone)your performance figures(although) might be interesting, will not be a deciding factor for most(that have a brain)they will take them with the grain of salt as I will................I do not have the time(in my life) right now to have the fun you are having with YOUR 2 hobby engines. Good luck

Hear is my latest (personal)fun project.....I've lost track over the years how many of these Iv 'e done...........her performance came out within 2% of the plan. I wrenched on every single nut and bolt in that car from bumper to bumper. I wonder if my son knows, just how lucky he is driving his graduation present off to Med School.

RC Pile keep turning the wrenches and keep having fun. Can you guess the car and year?. It's a true 400ci. Enjoy!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/P1040105.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/PICT0036.jpg

Tseres

Hey Check list.

Start a new list and add a few lines.

1 You should always say the truth.

2 You shouldn't have a comparison test under the guise of fun, When you are trying to get at someone for something you don't like.

3 You can fool some of the people all of the time all of the people some of the time but Tom knows the truth.

Nogyro

My Feedback: (10)

Hey RC Pile It,

I guess no one read your statement the first or second time, so here it is a THIRD!

I can't believe everyone is getting their panties in such a wad over this..... RC Pile It flat out said lets have some fun with this. What more do you need? I believe his "intent" on listing his mechanical background is to let us know he knows how to turn a wrench. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know about you guys, but I take whatever I read on ANY FORUM with a grain of salt. I don't care who's saying it......... There is no way to control EVERYTHING in a test like this. It's not intended to say X engine is better than Y engine. He's just one man that enjoys messing with this stuff like all the rest of us. I for one look forward to hearing what he has to say. And I just bet if his numbers are out of whack somehow, he'll have the integrity to say so...........

Onward RC Pile It! [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

Tseres

Yup. It would have been fun if he wasn't doing it for another reason.

Love your PAU Edge. Are you really hovering that without a gyro.[sm=thumbs_up.gif]

RC Pile It

My Feedback: (6)

Thanks Frank! I appreciate ya!

f4u1940

WOW Unbeliviable!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 I still would like to see what results you come up with the motors no mater how accrate or in accurate people think it is, what the heck its just for fun,isnt this what RCUNIVERSE Forms about, what the hobbys about, sharing results, and findings. I figure people are there on judge's  when it comes to diciding what they want to purchase for there airplanes.I for one dont go off and purchase something just cause one guy got such and and such result and this is what i would buy if it where me.....Does anyone here do that?...

Dont here anyone saying that on here.......Not me.....I try and reasearch things and come up with my on decision buy sorting through all this info weather its a motor, servo, battery,and so on.....

As far as the legal threats, dont understand that.But it would suck if we as hobbiest couldn't post or share info of products we have purchased.And if we couldnt.
               It would probably go like this.

Well i purchased a (LEGALITY BLOCK) some time ago and the manufacture stated it would turn a (LEGALITY BLOCK) at 7200 rpms, I personally could never get it to reach these rpms.So i switched to a (LEGALITY BLOCK) and now it reaches 7400-7500rpms.

How acan anything be gained by that lol.
 
Steve

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

About that break in.

I'd have reservations about purchasing any engine where the manufacturer had issues with using a major brand name chainsaw mineral oil at 32-1, over a period of 5 hours, with temps controlled and cycled between 95c and 140c, and rpm monitored and cycled to remain between 2,500 and 5,000. If there's a model intended gas engine out there that can't tolerate that, and also complete the break in within 5 hours, it's not suitable for model use or ownership. Using a mineral oil, it should complete the break in less than 4 hours, with the 5th hour there for assurance.

The above is a very conservative and well controlled process that will safely and correctly take care of any engine we use. If there's a manufacturer that objects to such a break in, they might want to reconsider the methods and materials used to make their products. I know I would not purchase an engine that could not handle that nice a break in.

RC Pile It

My Feedback: (6)

Well, It appears the Tom knows a secret, Tom knows a secret, Tom knows a secret..

Anyways, I have tryed to reassure him that I have genuine intentions, and that I spent a good part of today in great physical pain, so I might have misrepresented something in a P.M., but he isn't reppling to my requests for an answer. So, I guess his intention is either to be the annoying kid on the block, or to have each and every one o you ask him what he knows....So, if someone can let me know what I might have said, that would be very cool. I do remember him asking me what problems that I had with one of the engines, and I let him know the truth, but maybe I miss conveyed something...? I don't know...All that I do know, is if I just wanted to "slam" one of the manufacturers, it would be pretty easy(either way), I started this just to have some fun, and show some people some numbers....And now there's thousands of viewers, legal threats, personal insults, kids butting in, you name it...It started as fun, and now it's just funny!

Seriously....Should I just keep the rest of this to myself?!? That was my original plan, but I figured others might APPRECIATE my efforts(and thank all of you that have supported me, and extended your gratitude) But there's a handful of "hobbiest" that have really taken this out of context! I have, n numerous occasions, tryed to purchase(again, at full price) another engine, to keep this fair. So anyone that thinks that this is fixed,or biased, should really consider all of the evidence.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Finish and publish, and do it with truth, details, and valor

Nogyro

My Feedback: (10)

What can I say, it's an Edge...... They make anybody look good, even me.

Phoenex

My Feedback: (1)

I am voting for the same, please finish. There are no legal actions that can be taken against you for posting your results period otherwise these forums would not exsist. We do still have feedom of speech in the U.S.

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

Or, alternatively, the OP can just post his experience as he plays with these machines. Your results, or mine, may, and probably WILL, vary a GREAT deal.
Hell, I can make a fantastic engine run so poorly that NOone would ever think it was worth buying, and I can do that just by changing the tuning, altering the oil type and ratio, and changing the prop. Or the plug gap.Or the tightness of the plug.Or the timing of the hall sensor.

Point is - there are so many freakin' variables that impact the "tach" and "pull" performance of ANYof our engines, that comparisons are mostly worthless, always subjective, and rarely reliable.

Unless I do them, and it's my tach, my prop, my gas, and I'm the idiot on the transmitter. THEN, the comparisons are VALID.

But only for me....

RC Pile It

My Feedback: (6)

Hey Tom, sorry, I hadn't seen this question earlier... I have 5 gas planes in my trailer, 2 gas planes in my living room, and I haven't even counted the planes in my hanger(Back room). I bought a 50cc Edge 540, for an engine that I had bought on a super sale, well that engine(total China crap 52cc) didn't make enough power to even fly the plane. So I bought a YD-A to fly the plane. For "other" reasons, I decided to try the DLE as well, and I havent mounted it to a plane yet(which sucks!) because I decided to do this "Little" test, and now I have to wear a labcoat, and gloves...But Yes, I do fly, and fly a lot! The last time I had the opportunity to fly, was Fri, Sat, & Sun, after Thanksgiving. I flew 8 differant planes that weekend from 100cc Yak to an E-flite BAe hawk EDF. If you would like pictures, I can provide them. If you need video, I can take some...

Funny, how "MUCH" I need to validate myself, for a fun little test...

RC Pile It

My Feedback: (6)

Ok, Thanks for this Apolsson,(From an earlier posting...)
I was really hoping someone else would “chime in� here with an attempt to belittle me, while putting YD-A higher on their own pedestal!(Your quotes in blue)
I also want to clarify upfront that I have some interest in this because I’m a dealer for both brands and therefore know them both reasonably well.
It just so happens that you are in Australia, but I am sure that you are not “Biased�

(YOU): You do have an advantage on me in the way that YD-A was solely exported into the US market well before I could get my hands on one. Admittedly, I was in regular contact with Aussiesteve during this period so I was well aware of what to expect and what the engines would be like.
I have now in my stock quite a few of those engines and have carefully inspected and tested them before putting them up for sale, so I do know what I’m talking about.
(ME): Have you run one, though it’s entire break-in period, to see how much power it will make…?

(YOU): I admit that as much as I appreciate the attention you are bringing to the brand, I have some concerns over the comparison. Let me mention a few:

(YOU): 1. You make the comment that the cylinder base is not machined but compliment Steve on the casting quality. I find this extremely strange because not only do I know for a fact that they are machined but you also prove that with the photos you posted.
(ME): I humbly apologize, if the cylinder is machined, as it does appear to me that it is. There are not fresh, shinny machine path markings, but rather it appears that the machine marks from the “Casting Plug�, transferred to the finished product. Otherwise, I guess that Steve could have media blasted after machining, but the First engine(YD-A) that I received, had a leak at the base of the cylinder. A result of a casting flaw in the cylinder, that any form of machining should have taken care of. But if you “know for a fact�, then I apologize for making a wrongful accusation.

(YOU): 2. You insist on getting a “fully broken in personal engine� from Henry to run against a new out of the box DLE. Why do you want to deliberately disadvantage one brand (the DLE)? Are you not aware that by comparing two engines with a different status, you are not making a fair comparison? Are you not aware that both engines have different break-in period due to different materials used and will therefore react differently to breaking in?
(ME): Thank you again for displaying your intelligence here as well: How can I “compare� two engine’s power development, without allowing them to be fully broken in, and at, or close to, their full potential? See, the problem is that I don’t have enough Hours/weeks/months to perform a full “breaking� on the YD-A!, I can, however spend the hour, or so to break in the DLE. So I was trying to resist All Of You contesting All my tests, by eliminating this variable! But apparently, this is not possible. That’s Fine!

(YOU): 3. You also make quite a bit of spiel over the locator pins in the DLE assembly and state that you will need a specialized jig for the YD-A, yet you post photos showing an entirely different story?
(ME):I am not sure which photos you are referring to, but the reason for most of the assemble discussion, is because backstage(E-mail) Henry has already blatantly told me that I don’t know how to assemble an engine, nor is this ever even going to be close to a “fair� comparison, because his engine has been compromised. So I felt it important that people know that I have tried(repeatedly), to avoid this scenario. For what ever reason, DLE hasn’t contacted me at all about any of this, nor have they “jumped in� with “their� videos, or their comments about my “lack of professionalism�, …etc. Henry has assured me that they are watching as well, so is their lack of input based on their confidence in their product, or is there some other factors(I am sure that there are multiple factors)?

(YOU): 4. You state that you are going to run both engines on a Vess22A (22x8) prop during the test. Are you not aware that the recommended prop range for DLE55 is 22x8; 22x10; 23x8; 23x10 while the recommended prop for the YD-A 56cc is 22x10 – 24x8. By “testing� with your 22A, you would be going against the recommended prop size from one of the manufacturers.
(ME): Again, thanks for the “display�.
I never said that I intended on doing the test solely with a Vess 22A. Hell, I don’t even own a Vess prop. I simply stated to a fellow member, that I would be willing to use “his prop�, and report some numbers, as a favor to him, and any others that might want to know. My tests are all going to be conducted with a Xoar 22-10, and 22-8(which Henry told me to use, on his engine due to the fact that I couldn’t get 6100rpm with the recommended 22-10, and according to others on the “other� thread, I am not the only one with this lack of power)

(YOU): Now, only a few months later, you show up as an expert reviewer and challenge some of the best gas engine brains the world has and make statements that many shake their heads over.
(ME): AGAIN, thanks for the display…
Can you show me where I have “claimed� to be an “expert Reviewer�, I have only made statements of my qualifications to combat Henry’s pre-empted “complaints� about who/what I am(these made back stage as well). So I have made a few “qualification� statements in anticipation, and only to my abilities to bolt 3 pieces of aluminum together, but nowhere did I say that I was an “Expert Reviewer�! I am a modeler, who has been given the opportunity to compare, what I believe to be, the two best engines(in this price range), to help the “community� possible make an intelligent decision, or at least put some questions to rest…

(YOU): 2. Don’t try to stir up mud where none exists
(ME): Don’t forget where you left your “stir Stick�, when you decided to Type this whole “muddy� freakin’ thing!
We have a saying here too: Don’t criticize another of having a splinter in his eye, when you have a log in your own�


Thanks, Rc-Pile-It

JOHNS3D

My Feedback: (5)

wow...7 airplanes and some others in the back.... but dont take the comments wrong RC, a millionare can have 1000 airplanes and it doesnt mean that he can fly or even tune an engine. People here i think is trying to tell you what a great post like this can make a huge difference in people buying preference. IS SIMPLE as that. There is too much variables that can affect a comparision like this.

Its great that you are taking time and effort to do this, good luck.

RC Pile It

My Feedback: (6)

I totally understand where you are coming from...I can only validate myself so much....

I fly in a club of over 300 members. I am on the "board" for my second year. Do I really need to ask my fellow members to come on here one, by one, and validate that I am a good pilot, tuner, and trainer?

We are getting closer, and closer to me throwing in the towel....Again, I am going through all of this for all of you guys...either way, I will know the results, but the countless hours of my "three finger typing" is purely for all of your viewing pleasure, I get nothing but a headache(from being cross-eyed for hours), and three sore fingers...

So, again....If you don't think that I am a valid canidate to run a couple of engines, tuned to their individual best performance, running the same props, on the same fuel, within the same conditions, then why are you here??? It is that simple...

Kweasel

My Feedback: (29)

Im still interested. Tune the needle just like a glow engine and post peak rpm both with and without mufflers.

jonesjj3

My Feedback: (16)

Me too, Popcorn Refilled! just post your (for fun) findings and let it go at that. Some of us are interested in your findings no matter what, I personally base my purchasing on my findings and what I like and dont like about a product and support.

JUST DO IT!

Tseres

Just so people know. I did answer his PM. Just as soon as my wife let me have the computer back. This was the first thread I checked after I looked at the PM. It frees the soul confess.
I don't have any secrets. The secret is yours. You want to fess up. Go ahead. I know that I wouldn't have been so nice to you if I had read the thread first.

skillet92

RC do the runs and post the data. You are never going to satisfy everybody. I know that i can tune an engine and there are guys in my club that can but we can still differ on the info that we get out of the same engine. Don't try to prove yourself to every party pooper that comes on here and complains, it will only wear you out and make them happy! Life is to short for that.

Jezmo

This is getting weird. Just do the dam* tests, post the results and give the readers the chance to figure it out on their own. Or don't, but let's move on. Hell, folks bash Amsoil but I can guarantee you people still buy it. I've been taught and have always believed in the philosophy of "There is no such thing as bad publicity". Just ask the Hollywood crowd. Some of these engine dealers would be wise to learn from that. In fact, I am starting to wonder if that's not what this is. So far it's been a bunch of talk about nothing with certain engine brands being mentioned over and over and over. Are we just mentioning engine brands to get the word out? I've seen plenty of DLE's but not the first YD-A. Maybe this is all about publicity and it's just a bunch of hype. How do I know.

I normally see people do the tests then post the results, not come on the forum and announce they are planning on doing this comparison between brand X and brand Y and then discuss it for page after page after page. Something smells fishy to me.

Wingspam

Gentlemen, Gentlemen can we please stop the name calling and finger pointing.

I am new to the gas engine world of R/C, I have 2 gas engines. I have been flying glow for a long time. I for one would like to see the test results, why? why not. I for one spend many hours a week just reading various forums, some just because they seem interesting and others like this one just to see what the final result might be.

So damn the torpedos and full speed ahead..

ka9fax

My Feedback: (9)

Well said Wingspan, Im in the same boat....ON WITH THE TEST!!!!!!

AJsToyz

This is all I want to see, both brands tested new with a couple of different props. Both engines checked again after about a gallon each with a few prop sizes. This would be cool to do with about 6 - 10 gallons each, would give you a good break in time, basic power with different prop sizes. From past experience most engines run in slightly different rpm ranges for there best power band. Would give you a better Idea if its an RPM engine or a stump puller. Then questions about how it was done could be answered.

I don't think this is what is happening though, so I'm out !

Andy