XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

Hi all, hope to get some help here. I have an XYZ 53 twin. Love the engine so far but I haven't had more than 10 flights on it. Flew it two weeks ago and everything was peachy. Today I got to the field and flipped it till I got a headache and it never started. I noticed fuel coming out of the carb so that wasnt the problem. On to spark. I pulled the plugs, grounded them against the jugs and no spark. I pulled off the ignition and noticed one of the black wires, the one that goes to the timing part on the engine, had some of the plastic covering scraped away. I put some electrical,tape over it and plugged everything back up. Now when I turn on the ignition switch, the ignition module hums. Not sure if it did this before today or before i put the eectrical tape on. Dont think the electrical tape fix was the route of the problem though What does this mean? Engine still didn't spark after numerous flips. New to gassers so any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Also, if the diagnosis is the ignition module, can I just get any ignition module or do I need one compatible with this engine? Not sure I like the xyz ignition module if it craps out after 10 flights.

Thanks in advance,

Dan

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

get newone from hobby king,only $29.00

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

At the top of this gas section there's a sticky with a TON of information guys coming up to speed with gas might want to know or use for reference later.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8673009/tm.htm

Post # 24 is the one you might be able to use. It's step by step diagnostics for troubleshooting your ignition.

If it turns out you need a module, I wouldn't buy one like you have. I'd go the the Rcexl brand, even if I had to spend a little more to do it. That's me though, -Al

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

At the very best of times the stock XYZ ignition was a hit or miss affair. Save yourself some future headaches and get an RC exl ignition as a replacement. Milton at RC Extreme Power is a good source for such and will give you all the necessary assistance you might need.

Karol

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

Thanks for the information. I did in fact read that post before posting my question. My concern was that it specifically states the tests are for "Rcexl and many C&H ignitions". My concern was that I am not sure my ignition falls into one of those two categories and I don't want to damage an ignition that may not be broken with tests? Any input?

I have also been looking at the Rcexl ignitions and will contact milton for advice should I need to replace the ignition.

Thanks,
Dan

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

Just got off the phone with milton and placed an order for a new ignition from RC Extreme Power. he seems to be a wealth of information and lives in my state :D

Thanks for all the assistance!!!!

Dan

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

I have 2 RCG ignitions I would suspect are very close if not the same as yours (Rcxel knockoffs). Could never prove that, but would say you could safely use those diagnostics with no trouble.

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

I have the XYZ53 cc as well. I have had lots of trouble with the RcExcl Ignitions.

The engine came with RcExl ignition originally.

I have used a 5 V regulator to avoid damage.

The original ignition only lasted a while . I am on the third ignition now.

The last two I bought; One of them gives no spark whatsoever. The other one works. sort of.

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

Ok, so I got the new ignition and hooked everything up. Started right up. I had to change the high and low needle settings though. Is this normal?

Thanks,
Dan

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

Dan, wouldn't surprise me! I know messing with the spark plug gap can affect what seems like a rich condition in the mid to upper mid rpm range on mine (gurgling)? Glad you got it going.

Kwik, just wondering, you say you're running through a regulator, could it be causing your issue? Have you tried 4.8 volts direct to the module?

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

I have the same regulator on many planes. Seems to work.
Dont have any 4.8 Volts batteries in the house anymore.

In this case;
Since I have two NEW RcExl ignitions, I can switch between them out one by one.

One works, the other one doesnt. Same regulator. Also tried switching regulator.

In this case when I say "doesnt work" it means; No spark.
The regulator gives 5Volts out.

In another case; How the original RcExl stopped "working";
The old RcExl worked for a while. Suddenly one day, they doesnt work anymore.

The silly thing is that Murphy is into play here.

Because when I say "work" or "doesnt work" in this case, it is more complicated than that.

They actually give a spark; I have an ignition tester.You can change the rpm; It simulates signals from
the hall-sensor. And there is sparks. But unfortunately, I think, the sparks are too weak.

The engine doesnt start. Switch to another ignition, and all is okay. My guess is; There is no spark under compression.

Tired of it now.

I have an ignition from C&H Ignition on its way. Will wait for it and check it out.

If it works, no more RcExl for me. I cannot use any more precious time on such things.

The RcExl cost me $75 a piece. I will rather pay a bit more, if that means I get quality,
and no more hassle. Every time.

But of course, it remains to be seen whether C&H Ignitions is hasslefree.

I sincerely hope they are. They accept 7.4 Volts, I think. No regulator, in other words.

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

I have 3 of the old MK I Syncrohrospark C&H ignitions form 1997 & 1 new system that I recently prurchased for my FA91S Saito. The original sytem that I bought for my Saito FA150, the 1st, has burned about a 55 gal drum of fuel, been through numerous crashes & has out lasted 2 airframes & the engine for which it was originally purchased.

The ONLY problem I have ever had W/any of the C&H systems was a hall snesor that became loose. It had me chasing my tail for a while until I found the problem. I epoxied the hall sensor back to the mount & I have had no more issues.

I think you will have better luck W/the C&H stystems compared to the dismal history you have W/RCEXEL. If you do have issues, Adrian is always very good about responding to messages promptly.

The C&H systems can be custom taylored to your specific needs like input voltage.

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

I hope so, and I am pretty sure I will! :D

Here is a video of my initial testing of the XYZ 53cc Engine.

This was before the ignition started failing;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83lbfJftdac&feature=plcp

(Got some oil on the lense at 2:00 ....:D)

I like this engine, but one must expect to fix a lot of issues yourself....like

- Get new sparkplugs ( That was expected.)
- Maybe a new Carb (Mine never worked; Not a big surprise either)
- Maybe a new ignition. At least after a while....( That was a surprise. )

I bought it because it was the only twin 50cc with physical dimensions making it possible
to get it inside of the cowling of a scale 1/5 Focke Wulf 190 D9.

So the idea of a powerfull 50cc twin with these dimensions, slanted sparkplugs, is very sound for us warbird-fans.

The cowling of this plane is quite small....so I cannot give up on this engine yet.

I expect to get more rpm's from it with the C&H ignition, perhaps saving the project!
(Adrian at C&H Ignitions; [email protected] )

And here is the FIRST testflight;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMJZMgc0Z5E&feature=plcp

It didnt go so well, because I am lacking a few hundred rpm's.
( Not to mention too high idle when trying to land....)

What gives me hope of more power, is as follows;

I tested the same ignition used in the testflight above, on a Saito FG-57.

The Saito normally gives 6500 rpm with a 22x10 Menz.

And it only gave me 4600 rpm's! Only changed item was the ignition.

Therefore, I think the RcExl is the reason on the XYZ not giving what I expect. But I do not know 100%.

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

Did not know that the XYZ came with a RCexl ignition.

Is it possible for you to post some picks of the ignition box saying they are RCexl.

We had a XYZ twin that we had to get a new ignition for but the original ignition was not a RCexl.

If it looks like the picture below or is silver case it is not a Rcexl ignition.

Thanks
Milton

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

I'm a firm beliver in converting glow engines to spark & still burning the methanol/nitro.

My 50cc Saito 300TTDP turns a 22 X 8 @ 7100 RPM when the DA is good, 6900 on hot muggy days. It turned a 22 X 10 XOAR @ 6500 on the same hot, muggy day.

On meth/nitro I can usually crank the timing to 35* BTDC for a bit more power W/O hurting idle & low end user friendliness.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdmLu13UJzs[/youtube]

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

Milton,

The original ignition looked nothing like that. It was RcExl. I got my engine from Hobbyking.

The ignition is long gone, thrown in the bin. Sorry about that, but I tend to throw away stuff after a while.

It was marked RcExl, however.

Telemaster; I have many friends that like glow too.

I switched from glow to avoid some of the negative aspects of it, but yes, there are positive aspects too.

I have my reasons to prefer gasoline, however. :) Probably just a question of preferance.

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

Looks like the CH Ignition web-page is up;

http://ch-ignitions.com/index.php

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

Well, although I like glow fuel, I have no love for glow plugs. Eventually I want to convert all of my Satos to C&H ignition.

W/spark ignition on glow fuel I get a small boost in power over glow ignition & about 25% better fuel economy. Beyond that the really nice bonuses W/spark, even on glow fuel, are the easy starts, low reliable idle speeds & no fooling W/a glow driver or onboard glow. I have the same type charge port/switch for my ingnition & Rx Batteries so even W/750 Ma 4,8v NiMh packs, I just alternate charging the battery packs between flights. A 750 Ma 4.8v pack lasts for about 45 m inutes on a single cylider C&H system.

On bigger airframes W/twin ignition I go W/2100 Ma packs for the larger current draw of twin ignition & higherv TQ servos.

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

here is a picture of the ignition that came with my XYZ 53 Twin

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

That is what I had seen in the past, They do not come with a RCexl ignition, It is a knock off of RCexl just not a very good one.

Milton

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: kwik


Kwik,

Could this engine be a good alternative for my new Ta152 kit? the wingspan is 114 inches but the cowl is 8.5" diameter! http://fliteskin.com/Ta152page.htm
I need something that fits entirely in the cowl.
What are the dimentions?

Jose G

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

Milton, surely you dont know what Hobbyking is shipping? Or ?

Mine was labelled RcExl. I am pretty sure. It is one year ago.

Will ask Ticketec of a photo of his ignition on the ESM D9 thread.

Does it matter? I had exactly the same problems with the RcExl ignitions I ordered after that.

Jose, your lovely Ta 152 is scale 1/5, right?

Then it would probably fit? It fits in a 1/5 D9.

Ticketec got 5600 rpm on a Menz 22x10 and his ESM D9 flew well.
He was lucky, and got a functioning engine. If you read the Hobbyking reviews, you will see its a bit random.
So, I was aware of that before ordering.

So when trying out C&H Ignition, I hope for the same. If so I will test-fly it again.

I might have to try to fiddle with the gasket on the reed valve too. Or the carb. I dont know.
In any case its worth a try. Its a cute engine with lots of potensial.

Wish me luck!

I noted down these numbers a year ago, hope they are correct;

Center top sparkplug-cap: 103 mm <== They are hidden just under the cowl flaps !!
Center top engine: 97mm

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

Please update us with the results of the CH ignition. I am very happy with my RCExel ignition but only time will tell. As a heads up, I also got my engine from HobbyKing.

I realize sometime things just happen but I always like to identify a problem before fixing it or else you just repeat history over and over. I am still concerned why the ignition failed. I realize they are not the best but doesn't make sense something works one weekend and then not the next with no trigger in between. Anyway, like I said, only time will tell.

Dan

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

Yes I know what Hobby King ships with there engines, They ship what the manufacture sends with there engine, XYZ makes there own ignitions and what you see in post 19 is what comes with them.



Would like to see pictures of the two replacements you bought.

Milton

RE: XYZ Ignition problems. Engine won't start. NEED HELP
 

I bought them from Octopus RC. I found 3 of them right now.

If I complain, I guess I will just get new ones of the same quality.....more problems...and I dont want more problems....

So I am not posting here in order to get my money back, or to get new ignitions. I am posting here for Dan to see,
in case he gets the same problems as myself. I have talked to others with the same problems, so I am not alone.

We are just trying to find out what is going on. And the trend is; In most cases, when you receive the ignition, the engine will fire up and
run. After a while it wont start anymore. I would think after maybe 10-15 runs of 10 minutes each. Something like that.

There is still a spark, but it is weak.

For those who tried to say there is one common factor here (me) I have a comment;

There is a parallell thread here on Saito FG-57 ; I ordered two new Saito ignitions for it,
(after trying out two of these RcExl Ignitions on it), and couldnt make the new Saito ignitions to work on the Saito.

There was a common factor there as well; Me.

But there was another common factor; "They" sendt me 2 wrong ignitions. They would never work.

This is the ones from Octopus RC; One of the pics is a close up; Model A01