GAS Fuel Can
 

I'll try again on this forum....any recommendations for an electric powered pump/ fuel can for gas burners? How about the whole shoot'n match?

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

http://www.aero-works.net/store/detail.aspx?ID=321

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I use a 1 gallon fuel plastic fuel can ($3.00) and a Dubro gas fuel pump of the had crank variety ($11.00). I purchased the Dubro fuel can fittings and assembled the componets on the fuel can. I have to crank it but that goes quickly and I only have about $20.00 invested. I know you asked about electric, just wanted to chime in with a mechanical version. Good luck.:D

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

[link]http://www.jerseymodeler.com/id26.html[/link]

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

Made my own ;)

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I made two of them:

One with the SIG pump (leaky junk) - $19, project box $9.95, switch $2.50, old battery $0.

One with the proper Greylor pump - $55, project box $9.95, switch $2.50, old battery $0.


Considering the very high cost of these ready-made ones, it was way too easy and cheap to build.

http://www.greylor.com/productline_pq1224.htm - you want the 12V depron pump.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

BPS u hit the nail on the head my friend. I have also made one that I pump air into them and let that set up pump the gas into the plane.....

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I got a metal 1 gallon gas can from a garage sale for free, bent a swept 90 in a piece of brass tubing, punched a hole in the bottom side of the can and soldered it in against the bottom and with the outside end pointing up... snatched the nylon strap from a boat battery box from work (it was going to be trashed), a $10 gas or glow manual fuel pump from ebay, strapped the pump to the top side of the tank above the soldered tube and ran nylon tube (cheaper than tygon and works since it's not going to move). For the tank vent I soldered a slightly larger tube than what I had used before that fits outside the other size into the top of the tank, a piece of the smaller tube is used in the end of the pump outlet hose and pluggs into this tube when not being used.

same thing I did for my glow tank, cheap and easy

friend of mine did the same thing with a "Missile Mist" can for the "nifty" factor, I'm thinking of doing one with a WD40 can from work to replace the traxxas can I have my glow fuel in...

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I use may outboard motor gas can. The primer bulb fills the tank real fast. Crude but effective!

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

To all of you that make your own:
Gasoline is a highly volatile liquid (much more than alcohol) and brushed electric pumps produce a spark.
You may just be setting yourself up for disaster.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

Theres no way I would use an electric pump mounted on a gas can.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

Mines made by Armstrong! :D

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I was thinking mine was a Dubro? But if it is they don't make it any more.

It is a 1 gallon red plastic can like from the discount store with a outboard boat motor squeeze bulb adapted to tygon tubing. The outlet fill tube plugs into the gas can vent hole when not in use.

I've had it a few years and it has always been fine.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I agree 100% which is why I am using a hand crank pump on my first gasser. All of 20 seconds to fill my 20 ounce tank. No big.



Mike

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I can't believe there are electric pumps for gasoline on the market [X(]. What a risk. You'd be safer smoking a cigarette while pumping gas than using one of these potential "molotov cocktails" for fuelling. Now don't tell me the pumps are "spark proof". They might be when new, but what about the connections to the battery?

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

:D

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I made my own.
Red can is gasoline, yellow can is smoke fluid.
12v powerd.

http://www.rccanada.ca/rccforum/atta...2&d=1238051939

http://www.rccanada.ca/rccforum/atta...3&d=1238051939

http://www.rccanada.ca/rccforum/atta...4&d=1238051939

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I hear ya. They may be made differently than the average glow fuel electric pump, but every electric pump I ever used for my glow engines failed eventually and usually leaked, usually leaking into the motor!. Unless the motor is brushless and hermetically sealed and somehow isolated from the pump I'd never use one. Plus, unless your filling a half gallon tank, the hand crank types take very little time to fuel.




Mike

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I found that there is always some gas smell from the gas can inside the SUV during the trip to the field. I then put the can inside a cooler. This reduces the smell a little bit but not completely.

Anybody has a better solution?

I do not have a trailer. The plane and the gas can are transported inside the SUV.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

If you use e-pumps, meant for glow fuel and use them for gasoline you are asking for trouble. If I see a guy at the field who uses an electric fuel pump for his gasser I stay clear of him-way clear[X(]. Gasoline is very volatile . I already witnessed an accident once where a guy burned half to death just for handling a small gas can. Electricity and gasoline don't mix, period.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I don't either, my plane and gas can are hauled in my Toyota Sienna. I have never noticed much if any odor in the vehicle. I asked the question months ago when I decided to build a gasser about hauling gas planes inside a vehicle and the opinion was it's no big deal. That's been my experience so far. I even considered using camp fuel for that very reason but I realize now it's completely unnecessary

The key is I think is making sure there aren't any gas drips inside the vehicle. I take care to no spill any gas down the side of the can or on the plane. Even a few drops of gas will make it smell strong inside the car. I even left my plane and gas can in my vehicle overnight because I planned to go out first thing in the morning and barely noticed anything.




Mike

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

In all reality there is NO difference in the level of difficulty lighting alcohol vs gasoline with an electric spark. Think spark plug. The same plug that lights off gas will light off alky. I've been flying RC just shy of 40 yrs. and control line for almost 45. In that time I've never seen an electric pump used on gas ignite. I have witnessed an electric pump ignite glow fuel (alky) and the young kid was severely burned. That's only one time in 40 yrs so I guess it's a risk that some choose to take. I use a manual pump for both my gassers and glows but that's just because I'm too dang lazy to charge the batteries to run the pump, not because of fear of fire. I figure I've got a better chance of getting whacked by some idiot talking on a cell phone while driving. Just my two cents.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

electric fuel pumps have been used on cars for nearly 30 years without issues, most of which are IN the fuel tank with mere spade connectors giving them power. That being said, only gas vapor ignites and it has to be the right ratio of it and air...

I've heard of people wheeling and busting a fuel line and having raw fuel leaking on the exhaust of a running vehicle... didn't ignite...

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I found the smell is more noticeable if the plane and the gas can are in the vehicle for a couple of hours and the ambient temperature is quite high (over 90 degree in Texas summer).

Normally I close the choke plate, plug the vent line, minimize the throttle, and place the gas can inside the cooler. Seems that is not enough to prevent the odor from coming out. Lately, I found the cooler does not seal that well and applied some paint's tape. It helped a little bit but does not fix the problem. Is there some container that is air-tight and holds a gas can?

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

Gas stink? Run Coleman fuel.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I would stick with the gas for various reasons (readily available, cheaper, more power etc). Find a fix to the smell problem probably is very possible. I just need to find a air-tight container for the gas can.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

Oh man, here we go again. This will open up a whole 'nother can of worms.

Not a good solution. As I said a few posts ago, I looked into using Coleman fuel as a solution to the smell problem and almost everyone who replied said not to use it. It's octane is way too low to use as a motor fuel. Some are using it and getting away with it but if you use it you better hope you don't have an engine problem and that the mfg doesn't get wind of it as none of them approve of it's use.




Mike

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

The fuel pumps in cars are sealed with connectors that are not disconnected and reconnected while gas is around.
Gasoline is not more explosive than alcohol but it is a lot more volatile.

I had a leaky gas line leak on my exhaust pipe when my engine was running. It didn't ignite. I have been counting my lucky stars ever since

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

Actually, I designed fuel systems for some of the most popular vehicles on the road. The post above about spade connectors is 100% correct. Further, the in tank pumps are DC brush motors, and the gasoline is pumped up through the center of the motor's spinning armature, thru/past the brushes/commutator, and out the top of the brush holder. The gasoline is actually used to cool the electric motor.

None of it blows up because there isn't enough oxygen present inside the fuel tank.

I use an electric fuel pump for my personal gas can. Of course, I don't use the Greylor pump like virtually everyone else does (Jersey Modelers, Fisher, etc, etc). I use a Facet automotive fuel pump which is designed to pump gasoline, and is intended to be mounted outside of a fuel tank.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

You're not supposed to smoke a cig when you pump gas? Oh.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

You are supposed to smoke the cigarette with it cupped in your hand and the back of your hand up where the gasoline cannot see it?

I suppose the gasoline cannot see the sparks from a switch either?

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

If you design your pumping system so that the switch body is inside a sealed box, there is generally no issue when the switch contacts arc during switching. Most of the commercially sold units are done this way. The gas fumes have no incentive (pressure differential) to migrate into the box, or down thru the switch shaft, in sufficient quantities to cause an event.

The people who are at greater risk are those with a switch hanging out in the breeze. Those scare the crap out of me. Many of those get away with it simply because there is so much air movement out at the flying field that the gas vapor doesn't concentrate enough to become subject to ignition.

By the way, static discharge can be a bigger gasoline ignition problem than lighting a cigarette, simply because it's less obvious. Please fill your red gas cans from the gas station fuel pump when they are sitting on the ground. Never inside the back of your truck. Make sure that you and the tank are both grounded to the same ground plane.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

Thank you RCAddiction for the information on Faucet pumps.
Here is a link for those who are also interested. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...facetpumps.php
John

PS I'll enclose my switches.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

Here is the actual Facet pump I use. I believe I bought it at PepBoys or one of the other large retail chains several years back.

[link=http://www.facet-purolator.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&section id=7&id=13&Itemid=35]Facet Posi-Flo Fuel Pump[/link]

Please note that automotive fuel pumps, such as the Facet, are one-way pumps. You cannot use them in reverse to empty your tank. I arranged my plumbing to my gas tank so that I can connect the pump's outlet to the airplane to fill, and I can connect the pumps inlet to the airplane to empty.

The upside is that they are DESIGNED for gasoline. They prime NOW, there's no waiting for them to start sucking fuel like a gear pump. They last pretty much forever, don't leak, and they don't go boom.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

When you use the Facet pump in a auto the switch is a long way from the gas tank that these days is sealed. If you use one for our gas engines fuel pump you still need an explosive proof switch to activate it near our vented gas cans.
A cheap reed switch is explosive proof if activated by a magnet.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

Actually, cars today are all high pressure fuel injected, typically at 35psi and higher. Those Facet pumps are primarily low pressure pumps used for older carbureted or throttle body EFI. And there's no "switch" per se, other than the vehicle's electrical system. The tanks today aren't sealed, although one might think they would be. If they were, the air could not enter the tank to allow the fuel to leave which is being pumped out. There's usually a rollover valve connected to a charcoal canister connected to the top of the tank. It's open to atmosphere, and in the event the car rolls over, the valve seals so fuel doesn't pour out of the car, minimizing the chance of a fire.

But your point is well taken. Explosion proof switches are a desireable option. They are incredibly expensive, though. A magnet operated reed switch is a good idea. I've not seen any reed switch that can handle the current draw of these pumps, but perhaps they do exist. However, you could build a circuit using a reed switch as the trigger to operate a solid state switch which itself could handle the current draw.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

OK the gas tank is not sealed. But the purpose of that carbon canister is to prevent gasoline vapor to escape in the atmosphere.
If you are going to use a solid state SW you probably wouldn't need a reed sw. I have a Darlington connected pair that has a 5A inductive rating and a gain of 40K. You could trigger that with 1ma.
The point is this is an area a hobby builder should not be playing with. He could get himself killed.
This is where you should get an ARF so to speak.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I cannot disagree.

Some of the electric fuelers posted over the past couple of years frighten me, because I know the components and failure modes...but I'm not going to police others. If it concerns you, don't do it. I've designed and developed fuel systems and ran a fuel lab. So....not terribly worried about my own stuff, since I've learned how not to blow myself up.....which is why I've selected the components I use.....more worried about what others do.

With their flaws, electric-powered gas cans are still probably no more dangerous than many other aspects of our hobby, which is fraught with similar perils....like flipping a 32x10 carbon fiber prop by hand, though probably safer than hovering a 40% or a large heli in front of oneself, or overtaxxing a LiPo battery..... The good news is that these fuelers are generally used outside, and the risk of a high fuel concentration is quite low. Otherwise some of the sloppy stuff people have done would have already gone boom.

Really Dangerous? - people charging a Lipo in their plane, near a 2.5 gallon jug of gas or gallon jug of glow fuel, while driving enroute to the field.

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

"people charging a Lipo in their plane, near a 2.5 gallon jug of gas or gallon jug of glow fuel, while driving enroute to the field."

We aren't? Gee you learn something every day :)

RE: GAS Fuel Can
 

I've seen it done. ;)