Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

Hi guys,
Just out of curiousity I was wondering if anyone has temped their bme 100/102 with amsoil series 2000 50:1 mix, and also the amsoil 100:1 mix. - If so what temp diff did you get?
thanks in advance
Jon L

Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

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Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

I don't have a thermo gun for taking temps, but my BME's have always seemed to run cooler in the air with 100:1 Amsoil, compared to 50:1. I used to overheat a motor on occasion with the 50:1, but since switching to 100:1 I have not had ANY symptoms of overheating from ANY of my gas engines, including, DA, 3W and BME.

Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

On this one, I'm a doubting thomas. Less oil runs cooler? Someone is going to have to prove that one with data.
I have read (on other lists) people claim they measured the 50:1 oil as 30F cooler than the 100:1 oil.

Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

Someone told me that there are reports of Amsoil turning to glass balls in the event of a lean run, thus destroying the cylinder wall. Anyone confirm or deny this assertion? I am an avid user of Amsoil and don't run my engines on the edge, so don't think they are susceptible, but want to know.

Thanks,

Bedford

Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

While we use oil in our engines for lubrication, do we still have significant cooling due to the oil? I thought that this was only true in glow and not gas engines.

Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

Different mechanisms for oil cooling in glow and gas motors. In a glow motor, the theory is that the 18% oil soaks up some of the heat from the motor and carries it out the exhaust port. That's besides the effect of oil reducing the friction. If friction goes up, power goes down and heat goes up.

In a gas motor, there is not much oil (1-4%), so the oil is not going to transfer much heat out the exhaust. However, that little bit of oil has to provide lubrication to reduce friction for the rolling element bearings as well as between the ring and cylinder. The oil film also helps the gas seal for the ring. If you lose the gas seal, then hot combustion gas goes past the ring and overheats the piston. The oil also helps transfer heat from the piston to the ring and then to the cylinder.

Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

Since the primary ingredient in glass is sand, and it takes heat that would weld the internal parts of an engine together to make it, I seriously doubt that's even possible. :)

Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

Let's start a rumor that Amsoil turns into diamond chips when overheated. Diamonds are made from 100% carbon, and there's plenty of carbon in Amsoil.

Seriously though, I have read on the web about a landscaping business owner that switched all his 2-strokes to Amsoil 100:1. His claim was that the engines failed prematurely compared to the service life for this equipment run on a different oil (with a richer ratio). The engines were loaded with some very hard substance, glass-like deposits. I'll find a link if I can to his story.

Here it is:

Message 25 in thread
From: James ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Amsoil in Zenoah engines


View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc.air
Date: 2002-09-26 16:28:38 PST


"Me" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ews.com...
> Any issues on using Amsoil, at 100 to 1 in Zenoah engines (G-45) ? Anyone
> had any problems?
> Thanks
> Bill
>
Every time I look at this thread I say to myself, should I say
something or just keep my mouth shut? I can't stand it any longer.
I am going to tell you guys my experience with Amsoil. First let me
give you some background. I have the responsibility for the up keep
of 153 acres of grounds that is open to the public year round. I have
a crew of 7 men that do nothing but cut grass for nine months out of
the year. All of our weed eaters, our hedge trimmers and 5 of our
lawn mowers are 2 cycle. The rest of the lawn mowers are 4 cycle.
They don't make 2 cycle push mowers any more but as long as I can get
parts to overhaul them, we will keep running them. Understand that we
will put more hours on a weed eater in one grass season than the
average home owner will put on one in a lifetime. Because of this
most of our 2 cycle engines get overhauled at the end of each grass
season in November.

I am a firm believer in Synthetic motor oil. All of our 4 cycle
engines have Mobil 1 Synthetic oil in them. I am such a believer in
Synthetic oil (Mobil 1) I wanted to try Synthetic 2 cycle oil. So 3
years ago I started off a new season using 2 cycle Amsoil (100 -1
mix). The engines ran great. Then about mid-season I started having
a lot of engine failures, due to scored pistons and cylinder walls. I
have had scored cylinders before but never like this. I was losing an
engine every week. I noticed that the carbon deposits on top of the
pistons were different. There was less carbon but what carbon was
there was very small beads that was as hard as glass.

I mentioned this problem to my parts supplier one day when I was
picking up parts. He said, "You use Amsoil right?". I said yes. He
said, that is your problem. He said Amsoil will not burn. He said
that it forms very hard particles that get between the piston and
cylinder that score the piston. He said if you don't believe me try
to burn some Amsoil. He said, "I tried to set it on fire with a
propane torch."

I so much did not want to believe him. As soon as I got back to the
shop I poured some Amsoil in a metal pan. I lit my Oxygen - Acetylene
cutting torch that I can cut 2 inch steel with. Let me tell you
folks, "You can't burn Amsoil in Hell with the blowers turned on."
Amsoil will not burn. It does form very hard particles on top of the
piston. I stopped using Amsoil and went back to Havoline TC-W3. I
have not had a single scored piston problem since.

If you are using Amsoil I sincerely wish you the best of luck with it.
I will never use Amsoil again.

Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

Glow engines run alcohol as the majority of their fuel.
25-30%on 30 % nitro engines is not excessive oil - been there - a lot !
The alky is a drying agent
gasoline is --made from oil!!
not much oil needed with gasoline -in a two stroke enviroment .
But it should be able to stand up under lotsa heat --compared to alky fuel.
Alky does produce more power --ONLY because you burn (with oxygen) a lot more fuel
the air to alky mix will run from durn near 3-1 (lotsa nitro) on up to 6-7 to one
Gasoline is 12-1 --on up to 20- 1 (thank's to Honda)
Anything that makes glass --has silicone coming from somewhere - I can't imagine it -- but silicone aluminum may break down into glass under 1000+ heat --never seen it .

Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

JMO, but it seems to me you wouldnt want the oil to burn. If it were to burn with the fuel, what would be left to lubricate things?

Interesting story though. There are so many folks here running 100:1, makes you wonder why nobody else has reported this problem - if it is a real problem - personally, I dont think its for real.

Roger

Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

100-1 oil is NOT the same stuff as 50 to 1 stuff.

I don't know the viscosity difference -but it sure looks different to me

RE: Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

SO to you, is the 50:1 stuff slicker than the 100:1 stuff or what???

RE: Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

Could the "glass balls" be a result of running an engine too lean for too long? If you switch from one fuel blend to the other, are you guys adjusting the needles or just starting them up and running? I for one would adjust the needle rich and then back to peek RPM (or just a tad richer) with any fuel blend switch.

Ryan

RE: Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

If anyone finds any glass balls or other wierd things in their engine, you can send them to me for analysis. Then we'll know for sure what's there.

RE: Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

I know guys that have run their engines on Amsoil for years at the 100:1 ratio. I have never heard anything negative about it until now. These same guys turned me onto Amsoil several years back and I've been running my G23 on it since. One thing I must add. I, myself, do not take the chance on the 100:1 mixture. I've always mixed mine between 75:1 to 80:1. I've been running this mixture for a few years now and have never had any problems. It's hard for me to believe that anything can run on a 100:1 mixture, regardless of what kind of oil it is, but there are guys that do it all the time without any problems at all. Sounds to me like a few people may have a pretty lean needle setting.

John

RE: Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

I put in 6 flights this morning and found that my exhaust is running cleaner. I purchased this engine used and when I began running Amsoil 100:1 at 90:1, I would always have to clean up the plane and wing to clean the black gunk off. My last 6 flights (today) left no engine residue. I was wondering if this is normal or should be expected?@!

RE: Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

My Brison 3.2 and GT-80 used 100:1 at that mix, and they burned very clean, with just a small amount of residue at the end of a full day of flying. I also use the 100:1 mix in my DA-100 and the engine is a fantastic performer.

RE: Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

I checked my head temp yesterday following 10 minutes of flying. Outside temperature was 90 degrees, the left cylinder was 210, the right was 195. This is with the engine running at idle 1500rpm using Amsoil 100:1 mixed at 90:1.

RE: Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

I used Amsoil 2000 for 3 seasons, on 3W100 Started to loose RPM, tore engine down it was carboned up with one stuck ring.
Was it run lean at any time? was it run rich? It may have been. I would say too rich if any.
But it did carbon up.
I have switched to 100-1 mixing it at 80to1. Motor is running strong. But Im going to look inside at the end of every season. Everybody says this works and that works, but your not going to know till you use it, and take a look.

RE: Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

I will be looking forward to your report at the end of the flying season!
Don't forget about us :D

RE: Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

Here is something on which to ponder--
check both pistons on twins --
are they absolutely identical in color? buildup ? plug appearance?
The fuel mix they each see is the same --so why the difference?
How about cooling differences ( cowl shape )
internal flow ( mfgrs design)
different plug settings-your/someone elses setup -
mufflers?
pipes -differences?
Now then-- If you don't see any differences -- what engine are you running?
If you do see differences - how would YOU balance the cylinders?
and please no " buy a XXXXX engine they rock -sweet !"

RE: Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

Dick,

Most twins exhibit differences between cylinders as far as operating temps go, this is mostly due to fuel distribution variation between cylinders and cooling differences between cylinders. If a person monitors cylinder temp versus engine speed (under load like running the engine on a dyno) and makes sure that both cylinders are getting equal cooling you will see that the temps differ from one cylinder to the other changes as you go through the RPM range, this is almost 100% because of fuel/air distribution changes due to engine speed causing first one then the other cylinder to get a bit more fuel mixture. This is refering to multi cylinder engines with single carburetors and common crankcase.

The above assumes that the exhaust system is independent for both cylinders and is the same physically.

The cause of this is that the crankshaft turns one way in the crankcase and it's slight "pumping" effect changes with RPM, that and the pulse effect of the intake charge sometimes is aided and sometimes opposed to some degree by the crank pumping energy pulses), the net result is a change in which cylinder gets a bit more charge than the other depending on engine speed.

Almost any multi-cylinder engine that uses carburetors and non symmetrical intake systems will exhibit this characteristic to some degree or other.

Bill Krueger

RE: Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

I've found this very interesting about Amsoil. I have been running Amsoil in my ZDZ80RV since last October. I have about 50 flights since switching from Klotz KL-300 to Amsoil 2000.

Here are a couple of photos that I took through the spark plug hole. Kinda tricky to get focused. The piston is not coated evenly with the carbon material. Being careful not to disturb the material, I picked up a small piece with a small wooden stick. It is very soft and easily disintegrates between thumb and finger. Apparently, the material sloughs off during flying as shown by the bright shinny places on the piston.

I am running 93 octane gasoline at a 50:1 mix. The engine has very good compression. The spark plug had the medium tan color. ZDZ says to run synthetic at 40:1 so this rules out the option of going to the other Amsoil at 80:1 or 100:1.

Could the brand of gasoline cause the carbon build up?

I know this is a loaded question but if I should change to another synthetic at 40:1 then what would be my best choice?

Ken

RE: Amsoil 50:1 and 100:1 Temp diff in BME 102?
 

The 80 piston appears normal for "fat" running --
hard baked black deposits with dry skirts and nasty screatches --is lean -obviously --
So far I havbe yet to find a perfect oil which will allow too rich or too lean running -
The Redline Racing/ Klotz two stroke model oil and the Mobil 2 stroke seem to be as good as it gets --on the ZDZ.
BUT once more - how you run it is far more important that what you run in it .
I just try an oil for a while - look at the results then go from there .
even the Pennz two stroke break in oils runs fine - unless you run it lean -or way rich.
I still would like to know if anyone has a "discovery" on what causes the most imbalance in temps on the twins
The in cowl mufflers are not symmetrical in flow and this must make a difference.
Look at any of em -
Probably headers matched in length to can muffler would help.
and /or slightly restrict the hotter running one .
Just a guess--
On glow - we shimmed the hot one .
But that was another BIG PITA