Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
12-12-2004, 01:26 PM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
Matt - I get them at Lowes and they are in the long display
of specialty washers, fasteners, etc.....
It is a set of racks full of small tilt out compartments that
contain all sorts of weird widgets in all different sizes... In
the store I go to it is located on the next aisle from the main
fastener section - regular nuts, bolts, washers, etc...
Sorry I can't do better than this.
Bruce
of specialty washers, fasteners, etc.....
It is a set of racks full of small tilt out compartments that
contain all sorts of weird widgets in all different sizes... In
the store I go to it is located on the next aisle from the main
fastener section - regular nuts, bolts, washers, etc...
Sorry I can't do better than this.
Bruce
12-13-2004, 11:26 AM
#27
RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
3 quick questions:
1) Are you guys using 1 or 2 aileron servos and is there a second slot already cut to install a second aileron servo?
2) How hard is it to mount a ZDZ 80 on the engine dome?
3) Is there anyway of just using 1 JR 8611 on rudder?
1) Are you guys using 1 or 2 aileron servos and is there a second slot already cut to install a second aileron servo?
2) How hard is it to mount a ZDZ 80 on the engine dome?
3) Is there anyway of just using 1 JR 8611 on rudder?
12-13-2004, 12:59 PM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
ORIGINAL: Mattyb
those bushings sound like a great idea. will have a hunt for them tomorrow. its not a matter of money for me but more about timing, i have 10 days off over xmas and i always have to mail order my stuff and i need it all by then so i can start building
. not rushing or skimping on anything, but if there is a quicker easier way, thats what i will do
those bushings sound like a great idea. will have a hunt for them tomorrow. its not a matter of money for me but more about timing, i have 10 days off over xmas and i always have to mail order my stuff and i need it all by then so i can start building
. not rushing or skimping on anything, but if there is a quicker easier way, thats what i will do
jmw
12-14-2004, 04:12 AM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
jmw, I will have a sniff around true value hardware on the weekend, am sure i will find something. As for the cowl, yes i basically did the same as you. made up some re-inforcing block and sunk the screws into them. but thats all i did so hopefully they will hold. have heard a few people say that they come out fairly easily
12-14-2004, 09:39 AM
#30
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
SWB makes a nice set of adjustable stand-offs for $20. SWB is also the only manufacurer I have found that makes a 1 3/4" single aluminum servo arms. You will need that much length on the elevator servos. Any shorter and you will have to make cuts in the stab to get 3D throws. Unless, of course, you use the supplied phenolic horns. The horns are strong enough but there has been reports that the plastic hubs you have to use will not hold up, especially if you use an 8611 or equivalent and/or extreme deflection.
Ben:
I am using just one 8611 on my rudder with a DA-50 on a pipe and have not noticed any rudder degradation. I also use one 8611 on the airlerons. I just finished a second 2.3 that I used a BME 105 twin. Also has smoke and all the bells & whistles. Due to the extra weight, I went 2 servo's on the rudder and airleron. Should be flying it soon. If I were to do it again, I would probably use the dual rudder servo setup but not the dual airleron servo. It is a lot of extra work to cut out the second servo bay, box it up, etc.
Paul
Ben:
I am using just one 8611 on my rudder with a DA-50 on a pipe and have not noticed any rudder degradation. I also use one 8611 on the airlerons. I just finished a second 2.3 that I used a BME 105 twin. Also has smoke and all the bells & whistles. Due to the extra weight, I went 2 servo's on the rudder and airleron. Should be flying it soon. If I were to do it again, I would probably use the dual rudder servo setup but not the dual airleron servo. It is a lot of extra work to cut out the second servo bay, box it up, etc.
Paul
12-14-2004, 10:45 AM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
ORIGINAL: ben beyer
3 quick questions:
1) Are you guys using 1 or 2 aileron servos and is there a second slot already cut to install a second aileron servo?
2) How hard is it to mount a ZDZ 80 on the engine dome?
3) Is there anyway of just using 1 JR 8611 on rudder?
Ben, I talked to Andreas at Comp-ARF before I bought my 2.3 and he assured me they are using single 8411's on each aileron with excellent results.
I decided to go with a single 8611 on each aileron and each elevator half since there is no difference in price between the 8411 and 8611 but you get a substantial torque increase. And yes the ailerons are megastiff on this bird, I don't foresee any problems with flutter.
Jury is still out on the rudder servo, but I am leaning towards a single 8611 there as well. On 6 volts the output is 260 oz-inch which I think will get the job done quite nicely. The 2.3 measures out at 28.5% and I noticed the rudder is only slightly larger than the one on my GP Patty Wagstaff 25% Extra. I am running a single 140 oz-inch servo on that one and it will knife edge loop with ease.
I am using a ZDZ 80 RV and the motordome is more than adequate to take that engine. I noticed that they reinforced the dome on the back side with carbon tow for ridgidity...very nice. You will have to make up appropriate standoffs and cut a hole in the dome to accept the carburetor. This is a very straight forward installation, I am not sure about balance yet but am keeping as much weight forward as possible.
The inboard aileron hatch is cut from the factory while the outboard hatch is lightly scored into the wing skin. I see no reason you would need two servos on each aileron on this aircraft.
This aircraft is well engineered and goes together quickly. I think you'll like it and I anticipate rocketship verical with the 80.
jmw
3 quick questions:
1) Are you guys using 1 or 2 aileron servos and is there a second slot already cut to install a second aileron servo?
2) How hard is it to mount a ZDZ 80 on the engine dome?
3) Is there anyway of just using 1 JR 8611 on rudder?
Ben, I talked to Andreas at Comp-ARF before I bought my 2.3 and he assured me they are using single 8411's on each aileron with excellent results.
I decided to go with a single 8611 on each aileron and each elevator half since there is no difference in price between the 8411 and 8611 but you get a substantial torque increase. And yes the ailerons are megastiff on this bird, I don't foresee any problems with flutter.
Jury is still out on the rudder servo, but I am leaning towards a single 8611 there as well. On 6 volts the output is 260 oz-inch which I think will get the job done quite nicely. The 2.3 measures out at 28.5% and I noticed the rudder is only slightly larger than the one on my GP Patty Wagstaff 25% Extra. I am running a single 140 oz-inch servo on that one and it will knife edge loop with ease.
I am using a ZDZ 80 RV and the motordome is more than adequate to take that engine. I noticed that they reinforced the dome on the back side with carbon tow for ridgidity...very nice. You will have to make up appropriate standoffs and cut a hole in the dome to accept the carburetor. This is a very straight forward installation, I am not sure about balance yet but am keeping as much weight forward as possible.
The inboard aileron hatch is cut from the factory while the outboard hatch is lightly scored into the wing skin. I see no reason you would need two servos on each aileron on this aircraft.
This aircraft is well engineered and goes together quickly. I think you'll like it and I anticipate rocketship verical with the 80.
jmw
12-15-2004, 12:09 PM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
A word to the wise when trimming your canopy to fit the canopy frame on the 2.3. Remove very little material at a time and keep checking the fit constantly. There are no moulded in reference lines to use as a guide and it is very easy to remove too much material at the rear of the canopy. I know because I cut mine just a hair too short and ruined it. New one is going to cost me $40.00 with shipping .......Ouch!!!!! I am not the first to do this in my area, it happened to a friend on his 2.6. It seems like it would have been very easy to design in a trim reference line while designing the molds. Just my .02 worth. Oh well, live and learn.
jmw[:@]
jmw[:@]
12-15-2004, 12:48 PM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
Back to the original LG plate threads for a minute. The right side plate on my 2.3 ripped out two weekends ago on the first flight. Ripped the gear channel out between the formers halfway across the fuse. Gear did not flex and is undamaged. My repair ripped out on the second flight last weekend. Gear still undamaged. Neither landing could not be classified as "hard". Anyone else have this experience?
12-15-2004, 01:41 PM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
ORIGINAL: gravlrd
Back to the original LG plate threads for a minute. The right side plate on my 2.3 ripped out two weekends ago on the first flight. Ripped the gear channel out between the formers halfway across the fuse. Gear did not flex and is undamaged. My repair ripped out on the second flight last weekend. Gear still undamaged. Neither landing could not be classified as "hard". Anyone else have this experience?
Back to the original LG plate threads for a minute. The right side plate on my 2.3 ripped out two weekends ago on the first flight. Ripped the gear channel out between the formers halfway across the fuse. Gear did not flex and is undamaged. My repair ripped out on the second flight last weekend. Gear still undamaged. Neither landing could not be classified as "hard". Anyone else have this experience?
jmw
12-15-2004, 01:46 PM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
ORIGINAL: ptgarcia
I have heard of several people doing this. It seems the majority of complaints pertain to the canopy and hatch.
I have heard of several people doing this. It seems the majority of complaints pertain to the canopy and hatch.
jmw
12-16-2004, 03:52 AM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
yep, the canopy almost got me, i trimmed it a tiny bit, inserted it to check fit and couldnt get it back out!! had to use a soldering iron to trim it while it was in there to get it out!!! then almost trimmed too much, only a mil left in some pplaces. Gotta say that is the only prob i have had so far. And it is so awkward trying to hold the canopy while you are gluing it.
Matt
Matt
12-16-2004, 04:50 AM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
Sorry to go back over old territory but how long did you make the stand offs ?
Just got delivery of f the new blue head 80 , looks awsome .
Stu .
Just got delivery of f the new blue head 80 , looks awsome .
Stu .
12-16-2004, 08:30 AM
#40
RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
Paul,
I am also using one 8611 on the rudder and the power is rediculous. I cranked down the expo for TR'n and darn if you hit that rudder the whole plane just KICKS! LOL. The DA-50 and pipe are doing fine don't know how many flights, but it's more then 6 gallons now. I think just a touch more power would be awsome though - plus I'm still on the tail heavy side and don't want to ad more nose weight. I'm already at 20lbs 1 oz. I want to try different props, I have a mejlick now and it won't even rip. I think I could pick up a little more umph that way.
One 8411 on each aileron and they are holding up fine.
Landing gear is fine. I learned the hard way - don't deviate from the instructions at all. This thing is well thought out, down to the hardware. Just set it up like they say and enjoy!!
RickP
I am also using one 8611 on the rudder and the power is rediculous. I cranked down the expo for TR'n and darn if you hit that rudder the whole plane just KICKS! LOL. The DA-50 and pipe are doing fine don't know how many flights, but it's more then 6 gallons now. I think just a touch more power would be awsome though - plus I'm still on the tail heavy side and don't want to ad more nose weight. I'm already at 20lbs 1 oz. I want to try different props, I have a mejlick now and it won't even rip. I think I could pick up a little more umph that way.
One 8411 on each aileron and they are holding up fine.
Landing gear is fine. I learned the hard way - don't deviate from the instructions at all. This thing is well thought out, down to the hardware. Just set it up like they say and enjoy!!
RickP
12-16-2004, 08:32 AM
#41
RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
ORIGINAL: gravlrd
Back to the original LG plate threads for a minute. The right side plate on my 2.3 ripped out two weekends ago on the first flight. Ripped the gear channel out between the formers halfway across the fuse. Gear did not flex and is undamaged. My repair ripped out on the second flight last weekend. Gear still undamaged. Neither landing could not be classified as "hard". Anyone else have this experience?
Back to the original LG plate threads for a minute. The right side plate on my 2.3 ripped out two weekends ago on the first flight. Ripped the gear channel out between the formers halfway across the fuse. Gear did not flex and is undamaged. My repair ripped out on the second flight last weekend. Gear still undamaged. Neither landing could not be classified as "hard". Anyone else have this experience?
RickP
12-16-2004, 08:36 AM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
ORIGINAL: Stuart D
Sorry to go back over old territory but how long did you make the stand offs ?
Just got delivery of f the new blue head 80 , looks awsome .
Stu .
Sorry to go back over old territory but how long did you make the stand offs ?
Just got delivery of f the new blue head 80 , looks awsome .
Stu .
jmw
12-16-2004, 11:02 AM
#44
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
RickP:
Thanks for the update. I tried the suggested Mezleik 23X8 for a while. Then tried the Mezleik 22X10, like it much better and am staying with it. Did you convert to the c/f stab tube? Mine also was approaching 20lbs. Went back and stripped extra servo battery, choke servo and everything I could to reduce weight. Also went c/f wing tube. Have not weighted it yet but the difference was very noticable. Problem is, I only get 3 to 4 flights per charge due to the smaller batteries. Was considering going lithium but it's no big deal to quick charge at the field. Like you said, one 8611 on the rudder really does the trick. Have about 2 gallons through it. LOL
Paul
PS ordered the 2X2 extra, that ought to rip with the DA-50. Don't know when I will get it.
Thanks for the update. I tried the suggested Mezleik 23X8 for a while. Then tried the Mezleik 22X10, like it much better and am staying with it. Did you convert to the c/f stab tube? Mine also was approaching 20lbs. Went back and stripped extra servo battery, choke servo and everything I could to reduce weight. Also went c/f wing tube. Have not weighted it yet but the difference was very noticable. Problem is, I only get 3 to 4 flights per charge due to the smaller batteries. Was considering going lithium but it's no big deal to quick charge at the field. Like you said, one 8611 on the rudder really does the trick. Have about 2 gallons through it. LOL
Paul
PS ordered the 2X2 extra, that ought to rip with the DA-50. Don't know when I will get it.
12-16-2004, 12:21 PM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
Paul and Rick P, sounds like a single 8611 on rudder kicks a _ _! Are you guys driving your elevator halves with one 8411 each as well as the ailerons? I am going with 8611s all the way around since the 8411s are thes ame price. Stuart, what size single pack are you using that gives only four flights? Do you guys know the wing area on this thing, couldn't find it in the specs?
jmw
jmw
12-16-2004, 03:54 PM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
Has anybody tried to tint their 2.3 canopy with Rit fabric dye? I was hoping to go with a smoke grey tint but don't want to take a chance on damaging such an expensive canopy. Might try it out on the left over plastic scrap and see what happens. I have heard that adding vinegar to the dye solution and heating it to about 150 degrees F will yield best results. Still can't find specs on the wing area for the 2.3 but I estimate right at 1500 sq. inch which gives a wing loading of approx. 30.5 oz./sq.ft at 20 lbs all up weight. Should float like a butterfly!!!
jmw
jmw
12-16-2004, 05:20 PM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
Hello,
Does anyone have a right elevator /stab assembly for the 2.3m Extra any color is ok ? I recieved the House Scheme and its a beautiful airplane but Comp ARf sent me two left elevator assemblies. Replacements are back ordered. Maybe someone out there has two rights?
Thanks!
Char[&:]
Does anyone have a right elevator /stab assembly for the 2.3m Extra any color is ok ? I recieved the House Scheme and its a beautiful airplane but Comp ARf sent me two left elevator assemblies. Replacements are back ordered. Maybe someone out there has two rights?
Thanks!
Char[&:]
12-16-2004, 06:41 PM
#48
RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
ORIGINAL: john316
RickP, what kind of landing did it take to rip out the gear plate on your 2.3?
jmw
RickP, what kind of landing did it take to rip out the gear plate on your 2.3?
jmw
Still though, I've been getting good use out of this plane with little mainenance, so I am not complaining. Yes - I have the CF stab tube. I painted mine, that is probably why it is heavier.
Anyone try the AM prop?
RickP
12-16-2004, 10:20 PM
#49
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
John:
The canopy tints easily with Ritz die. 150 degrees is a little hot, I would keep it around 120. At that heat it will only take about 10 to 15 minutes for a dark tint. The canopy itself is not expensive, $20. For some reason they charge 25$ for freight. Go figure.
I am using a single 1800 mah sub C SR battery pack. 3 good flights is ok, 4 is pushing it and 5 is out of the question. No big deal, only takes a few minutes to charge on the Sirus.
Paul
The canopy tints easily with Ritz die. 150 degrees is a little hot, I would keep it around 120. At that heat it will only take about 10 to 15 minutes for a dark tint. The canopy itself is not expensive, $20. For some reason they charge 25$ for freight. Go figure.
I am using a single 1800 mah sub C SR battery pack. 3 good flights is ok, 4 is pushing it and 5 is out of the question. No big deal, only takes a few minutes to charge on the Sirus.
Paul
12-16-2004, 11:01 PM
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RE: Composite-Arf 2.3 Construction
John,
You should really think about this piece of hardware for mounting your sevos in the wing (aileron) .
http://search.rcmodels.com/?rc=1&tex...o+tray&x=9&y=8
Much sturdier servo set-up than the stock servo mount from Comp-Arf.
MR G
You should really think about this piece of hardware for mounting your sevos in the wing (aileron) .
http://search.rcmodels.com/?rc=1&tex...o+tray&x=9&y=8
Much sturdier servo set-up than the stock servo mount from Comp-Arf.
MR G