chipwill

My Feedback: (12)

Anyone have info on the new company selling airplanes, www.toc1.com ?
http://www.toc1.com/30yak.html

The Yak is pretty decent looking as are a few other of their offerings. I wonder if its the same plane being sold by EF with different scheme. Size is about the same, but weight isnt.

Anyone know of this company?

TYIA

Chip

SMALLFLY-

My Feedback: (19)

Ive seen these before and they sure have a close resemblence to the previous designs of EF. Kinda makes you wonder if this some of the old stuff.

Futurase

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I really like the color scheme, but who would want one??? I mean it has aluminum landing gear, wing tube, stab tube, tail wheel bracket which is where it picks up its weight verses the Extreme Flight one. The kicker is it cost just as much I mean Chris is giving you about $200 worth of hop ups for the same price. His has all carbon items which sheds lots of weight. The EF one even has wing/stab/fuse bags!!!

No way I will pay the same amount of money for less. EF gets my vote.

Norman Ross Jr.

Harrier3D

Hello,

Personally for the price. I would rather build a kit an finish it the way I want. I would also know how its built so I dont possibly loose my $3,000 worth of gear to something failing. There are alot of posts with almost every ARF in that size with some sort of issue resulting in a crash. No thanks!!

Thanks

Boogie

Check some info on it at flying cirkus, Garrett Morrison (sorry if I have mis-spelled his name) has been testing those in China.

Bryant330L

My Feedback: (126)

I think these planes look nice. You are right it is a little over priced, but the verdict will be out until someone gets to fly one. If the weight they list is right it should be comparable to the EF. I would personally buy the TOC plane because they don't use a bunch of foam, but that is a matter of opinoin. Garrett sure has some good things to say about this company and their new line of planes. The Yak is getting to be a popular design, I find it interesting that people think that all of the new planes are the EF rejects. I see TOC1 is going to offer a 35% Yak too... so I supposed that is copy also? Is it not possible to enjoy the EF planes without trashing their competition? Tom, I am not aiming that at you, just a general question.

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

Too bad its not a yak55.. IMO they look much better. Weight seems a tad heavy IMO, prices are not too bad.

chipwill

My Feedback: (12)

Thanks guys,

I think Im going to wait on EF.

John, now if Composite Arf came out with a 54 I would start saving money. A guy at our field has the 2.6 meter/Da100 and I got to see Jason Noll wringing it out a few months ago. IMPRESSIVE. I like the two seat version better personally.

That will be next winters project. [8D]

Thanks for the info guys!

Chip

SMALLFLY-

My Feedback: (19)

Im not making any accusations but look at the yak, It has exactly the same lines, the same cowl bump on the underneath side, the same size and they also have a 60" edge and yak FF which the original comapny was doing for chris's designs that just happen to be a 60" edge and yak... just sayin...

Bryant330L

My Feedback: (126)

Good points Tom.... you might be right.

Volfy

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They are Yak 54s and so supposed to have the same outlines. The Cowl bump?! That is a scale detail that just about every Yak 54 model carries. My GSP Yak 54 has that too. May be all the Yak 54 model airplanes every made are Chris' rejects?

Besides, look at one of the TOC1 ad pics. One guys is wearing a T-shirt that seems to suggest country of original being Taiwan, instead of China.

I like the Yak 54 design and round cowl aerobats in general. Any new Yak ARFs is guaranteed to catch my attention. But I tend to prefer those that are actually shipping, than the one that gets hyped for over a year and still no beef. I also prefer those that brings a product to market and let us RCers judge them on their own merits, instead of those who incessantly badmouth the competition to make themselves look good.

NeoGenesis

My Feedback: (27)

don't know about the 30% yak, but I like the looks of their little profile yak that they have coming out.



Neo

SunShyne

My Feedback: (68)

IMO from the pics it looks very nice, I like the dark red scheme, really sets it apart from others. I agree it seems a bit pricey so only its flight characterisitics will sell it! Time will tell..



matt

JuniorPilot

I think those planes look sweet, Garrett morisson was over in china testing those planes out and he really liked them i believe.

japan3d

Just remember people, here at RCUniverse if it's not a DA Powered Composite-ARF it's going to get bashed, and yes I own both of these, and by the end of the week will have a 3m Extra and a DA150 in my hands, to go along with my 2.6m Extra which is also DA powered.

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

Rumor is that this "new" company is actually the manufacturer that Extreme Flight first selected to build his planes... the 87" Yak, and 85" Extras and Edges...

The quality was so bad that he took a huge loss and walked away from the deal because they were unwilling to fix the problems.

In the meantime they lined up KMP as a distributor to sell EF's rejects and also started building new batches. KMP then sold to Cheetah and Morris Hobbies as dealers.

Well... don't know why... but all the sudden KMP and Cheetah have removed all occurences of the pics and specs of the planes form their sites... speculation is that proper legal action was about to take place... along with the unofficial boycott on them. Poor Morris can't even sell the planes on e-bay... with bids of only $225 not meeting their reserve prices...

Anywho... supposedly this original manufacturer is now taking the designs that Chris paid for and developed with them and remanufacturing them with different covering scheme... (along with some other designs that I can't help but wonder where THEY came from )

Something I'm not clear on either... is that they went in partnership with the owners of Cheetah RC...

If you check the WhoIs for cheetahrc.com and toc1.com you'll find they were BOTH registered through domainsbyproxy.com... a method used to hide your identity on the internet. You pay a company to register the names for you so that noone can determine who owns the domain. Odd occurance when coupled with the rumors.

If indeed this is all true, then I'd have serious doubts about the continued quality of the offerings, wary of weights and overall longevity of the company. In addition, I certainly wouldn't want to do business with people trying to hide who they are. In fact... hiding this info lends even more credibilty to the rumors.

It wouldn't surprise me that Garrett ends up seperating himself from the company... I certainly wouldn't want my name to be associated with it...

SunShyne

My Feedback: (68)

LOL, sad but true...

Kitman

My Feedback: (13)

Maubid,

Very well stated, accurate and true. I only speak from first hand experience. I am trying to get a fuse and cowl replace that was damaged and can not get a return call or e-mail answered. I know Garrett, outstanding pilot and person, it won't take long!


Kitman

Bryant330L

My Feedback: (126)

I agree with Japan3D and it is a shame. There is a growing amount of people on this site, and you guys know who you are, that have the attitude that if you don't buy the very best, most expensive products available... don't even bother. It is not about fun anymore, it is about who has the most expensive toys, and who can throw the most money at any given project. I also have a sneaky suspicion that most of these people couldn't actually fly themselves out of a wet paper bag. That is the reason I have been spending more and more time at the other rc websites because that attitude just isn't present. Anyway, now back to the original topic............

v-snap

My Feedback: (18)

What Bryant330L said......I have seen this for all my 30yrs in the hobby, a group forms that can afford the best and get it then add a few that can't but do. Then they sit around and laugh or pick on those that can't and don't along with what they have. Sounds like high school don't it.

That what makes it enjoyable, getting what you can and doing the best with it. In other words:
"Bring what you got, fly what you bring"

NeoGenesis

My Feedback: (27)

That's why I'm rebuilding a 7 year old model....mind you I took some weight out and re-engineered parts of it, but I've got far less in the airframe that the cheapest kit you can buy. One of Frank Knoll's 46% G-200's. I can't wait to get her in the air.





Neo

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

For what it's worth, I didn't see anyone knocking the plane... and it's certainly not an issue of price... The 87" Yak for instance is virtually the same price as EF's Yak... Only the EF comes with so much more... how can you suggest that a person comparing the two aircraft and companies could coe to any other conclusion than the EF Yak is the best value. I certainly don't think there are a group of guys with $10 more dollars in there pocket thinking their plane is better... I think they just spent $10 more and got carbon fiber wingtunes, wing/stab/fuse bags, phenolic horns, carbon servo horn, composite gear, titanium pushrods... so yeah... they MIGHT snicker when someone suggests the TOC1 Yak is a better value. Heck I wouldn't blame them if they all rolled on the floor laughing.

My real concern is the company behind the model... there are PLENTY of affordable, great flying models...

Wild Hare makes several 50cc & 100cc models that are real price leaders... and they've built a great reputation to boot.

BME has some models out that are lightweight and priced right too... a little too new to form a reputation, but there aren't any rumors of scnadal with them.

Chip Hyde has some models that are a little higher priced and excellent flyers... doing his best to build a great company.

So I don't see any "camps" forming persay... it's not like the supposed "Carden Group" that snubs their noses at Aeroworks models...

If the models bear out quality, fly well and the company supports the customers well then they'll succeed.

But IF the rumors are true, then it's quite possible that there will be some issues with the company, the planes or both.

It's not about price or "clout" it's about excellence in a market where the perception of excellence is being raised time and time again by companies like Extreme Flight, Wild Hare, Chip Hyde, BME aircraft, Composite ARF, etc...

There are 3 kinds of people in this hobby... one's who follow the advice of others blindly, those who defy the mainstream and go their own route (even to the point of making poor decisions) and those that simply look at all the facts, get as many opinions as possible and make their OWN mind up. The vast majority are the latter.

AKondor

HI Folks.....

Very interesting reading to be had on this forum.... Like you say, Nobody should hide who they are...
Read between the lines...

Andrew Kondor
KMP

v-snap

My Feedback: (18)

NEO I have been following your thread, it looks great. I remember when those planes were flying.

Maubid - I think what is getting you is your constant attacks on any plane that is similar to EF's. I agree EF has worked on a great product, tried to keep it perfect, at a good price and it looks like he did a good job. But for what ever reason you have to defend him instead of letting the products speak for itself. On multiple threads to boot. Yes you sound experienced, I don't know you personally so I will not comment either way. I think of myself as experienced too. How experienced with the EF plane are you, you yourself have yet to get your hands on one, have yet to fly one (production) or build one. So how experienced with this plane are you really...and the DA comment comes directly from the thread.

Enough with the HIJACK-I bring what I fly and fly what I bring....

Lets wait and see how these turn out...

ParticleMan

My Feedback: (24)

I think you're making alot of assumptions Maudib. If you look at Flying Cirkus you would see that these planes are not built the same as the EF yak and do not use FOAM. That's a plus in my book based on my experience with my 68" yak. Maybe the construction/durability is better than EFs? Carbon fiber and composite do not translate into lighter or better either. Based on the info on the website you can't tell what the hardware is made out of also. Just to add the TOC yak comes with an aluminum spinner which I find more of a value than the bags that come with the EF yak, don't be fooled, the bags are cheap to make. From the looks of things it would be hard to say which one was infact the better deal based on the product supplied. The advertised weight is still in line with the EF yak also. Just simply looking at the facts, I think you should stick to it too.

Now that is out of the way, if it is infact true that this design is ripped off of EF, which I suspect it probably is, based on the looks of the plane, I would have a hard time buying the TOC yak. A few years ago at the Internet flyin Chris was flying a profile edge, and an 50cc class edge that are very similar to the ones TOC1 is selling. It's a rotten thing to do to steal someone elses time and effort of R&D.