bobsalmon

Just bought a used Bud Nosen Trainer, giant scale. It has a Super Tigre 3000 engine. Radio and servos are good. Installed a new prop; 18"x 10-6. My major problem is that it came without any plans or instructions. HELP. Does anyone know where to get the plans from? Would I be able to copy or purchase a copy from someone?
I also have 18x6 and an 18x8. Which prop would provide the best thrust output?
Next big problem. This plane flies funny. At medium power settings, the plane wanders around the sky. Kind of mushy at times and seemsingly wants to climb all the time. Then at high power, it seems better and flies normally. But, it wants to yaw to the left with the wings level. Airlerons are very responsive, so roll control is adequate. Elevator and rudder are not nearly as responsive. I flew it once, went several times around the patch and finally handed the Xmitter over to a more experienced flier; in order to land it safely.
Everyone is speculating as to which problem it has. But without plans I cannot check any parameter; such as angles of incidence.
Please, anyone with knowledge of this machine contact me.Thank you.

AndyF

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Bob,

You should be able to get the plans from A & A industries. I have the plane NIB with a set of plans. I copied the Bud Nosen Citabria plans at the local Kinkos and spent $40.

A & A can be reached at www.aaind.com and the e-mail address is [email protected].

I hope this helps.

If you just want to know the CG I can get the kit down of the shelf and check it out for you.

Regards,

Andy

bobsalmon

Thanx, I sent them email on Sat. I'm awaiting their reply.
Still, I need info. about that engine. The S.T. 3000 is weak.
Do you know where to get a 2-stroke glowglow power. engine in the 2.0 cu.in. range?
I'm checking around the net, but everything is 4-stroke or Gasoline driven. That makes the plane too nose heavy. I wish to stay with

AndyF

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Bob,

You might want to try an APC prop that might get some better performance from the engine.

I am a big advocate of using 5% nitro in all ST engines. I have noticed a 500 RPM increase on my ST 51 and 61s by switching to the lower Nitro fuel. (I was using 10%) Eurpean engines like the lower nitro content because it is harder to get there (So I'm told)

I have a Bud Nosen Citabria 105" wing span that weighs in around 14 lbs that I'm flying with at Super Tigre 2500. It has more than enought power to pull it around. And it climbs like crazy!

I once heard that the opening in the carb might be a little small for the 3000, some have recommended drilling out the opening by one drill size. I would not take this as gospell but you may want to do some research on that aspect.

You could try at ST 3250, that will have a little more power. Here is the website for Super Tigre it has some information on the power output and rpm range of the engines: http://www.supertigre.com/

Good luck,

Andy

bobsalmon

Yes, I've been reading thru this forum about lowering the nitro.
Perhaps, lower the nitro and add more oil. Right now, my concern is for the extraordinary amount of vibration. Before I run it again, I'm going to experiment with a Tach. and various props.
7500 to 7800 RPM seems to be the answer. But, I must borrow a tach and check it. Thanx.

$ircra$halot

Hi Bob: Might I suggest you try www.rcfaq.com, scroll down the left side of the screen and click on flying faqs, and again on trimming your plane. They have a really good, informative web sight. It will tell you to do a certain flight maneuver, give you different aircraft reaction scenarios, and the fix. My plane is a whole new beast after reading this. Always happy to help if I can. Happy flying Garry.

evan-RCU

I have plans, where are you located? The trainer was designed to fly with a .60 and built right was a rocket ship with a .75. Alot of people over built them and they needed to have a big motor to get them air bourne, sounds like you have one of these...

bobsalmon

Good to hear you have plans. I'm in the Philly area. How can I get in touch with you. My email is:[email protected]
Thanks again.

GaryV

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Sorry, I can't help with your problem, but I thought I would let you know about my project.

A Nosen trainer was given to me by one of my fellow club members.
I was looking for a plane to drop R/C Skydivers with.
I wanted to be able to drop three at a time (about 8 pounds).

The wing had been broken in half, and was repaired with two pieces of steel pipe and what looked like about a dozen sticks of hot-melt glue.
I decided to make a new wing with a two piece design, to make it easier to transport.
I used two Aluminum wing tubes to join it together.
It will be bolted on instead of rubber bands.
The ailerons were made longer by moving them over two ribs.
It has been converted to a tail dragger.
The langing gear will be a custom made (TnT) Eight inch tall using 4.5" wheels
Power will come from a Zenoah G-38.
The rudder and elevator servos have been relocated to the rear.
Two inches have been added to the Rudder, and about One inch to the elevators.
It will be covered with Coverite fabric.

Will it fly? who knows, It may be a brick, I will find out in a couple of months.

Gary VanFossen
Stuarts Draft VA

bobsalmon

Great project plane. Let me know how it flies someday.
I like the idea of a 2-piece wing. That 9 footer is tough to haul around. I'm putting mine in an 18" cardboard "Builders Tube" and lashing that down in a pickup.

dave_anderson

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Have any pictures you could post of your Nosen project?

dave_anderson

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Have any pictures you could post of your Nosen project?

Carlos Murphy

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For your climbing under power and yaw problem you may want to check your engine offset. No down thrust could cause the plane to clime at different rates according to RPM at the time.
Yaw could result in no right side thrust.

I bought a good used B.N.T. from a friend that was flown with a S.T. 3000. I cut off the built-in wood cowl with a razor saw and mounted a Zen. G-45 and a fiberglass cowl out of my junk box.
I built a glider tow release and mounted it to the bulkhead at the rear of the radio compartment. Installed custom made landing gear from T.N.T. along with BVM brakes and a dual strut nose gear.

The only fault I found with the plane (besides it being ugly) is that the elevator was very narrow for the size of the plane. Many of my landings were with full up elevator coming over the threshold (plane was balanced). I had intended to replace the elevator with a bigger one but my transmitter thought different and put the plane in just after takeoff one day, Futaba said my expensive heli radio had loose solder joints.

I now fly JR.

GaryV

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Here is a pic of mine with the home made cowl almost ready to cover (if the pic comes thru)

GaryV

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building the wing with the wing tubes in ribs

dave_anderson

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You should market that cowl! Looks really cool!

GaryV

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thanks dave,

This is my first attempt at making a cowl.

Gary

hoverlover9797

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Here is my B.N.T. "frankenstien"

It is a virgin B.N.T. fuse, the wing had a nasty bow in it and was only half completed. I an making a two piece foam wing using the same airfoil. My powerplant is going to be a Ryobie 4 stroke weed eater motor with a CARR convertion. I plan to move the firewall back to help the cg and keep the prop in the same location. The Ryobie should make a great combination on this plane. It is 26cc and uses very little fuel. Plus the fuel is only $1.50 a gallon!!! Mark

Gary, How much to make me a cowl like that??


http://home.att.net/~carrprecision/Page3.html

bobbydee

Haye fellas!!
my first time writting, Im building a bud nosen trainer, always wanted one! was going to use standard servos mounted close to my control serfaces, was going to completly sheet the wings and use a 1.08 glow engine.Im confused on the engine deal, says it takes a .60 but that doesnt seem big enough.I got a G-23 but that seems too big! would appr. any input!!
thanks.....

Carlos Murphy

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bobbydee,

Did you read all the posts? A G-23 would be minimal for this bird because it's big and has alot of drag and a real thick wing.

I've used G-23's on several planes including a 106" Aronca Champ and a H-9 PT-19 and both flew very scale like so the B.N.T. would

be under powered. I used standard servos throughout (good ones) and they worked just fine, I also used this bird as a glider tug and

still had full control and no extra power drain on the battery.

This plane is a "slice of cake" to fly and land and I had alot of fun with the BVM brakes using my original H-9 PT-19 main gear

wheels. Good luck.

evan-RCU

I don't know where Carlos got his info but I've built two. The first was as per plans and a old Webra Black Head .61 was more than enough power to fly it. It wasn't 3-D but then It's a trainer. The second one I put a Super Tiger .75 in it and bolted the wings on and had struts for the tail and it was a real acrobat! I used standard servos in both and the only real change was the bolt on wing on the second one and I used aluminum gear on goth to stop the bouncies.

bobbydee

Thanks alot Carlos,

I just happen to have a G-23 but thought it was too big.Im still clue-less as to why the plan say's: 60 thanks again.....Bob

bobbydee

Howdy Evan,

After builden 2 of these big birds, can you tell me if the plan meant using a .60 nitro engine.It says to use a 60 gas.And I was told a 60 gasser is huge!! And what"s your thoughts on "fully sheeting"..too heavy? sounds like the stock steel gear aint the best? Thanks for your input, Bob

khodges

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Like Gary V, I was given a BNT by a fellow in my club, who built this plane almost 25 years ago. I bought a gas engine (US-41) from him for a future project, and when he delivered it, gave me the BNT and said to break in the engine and get used to flying giant scale with it. I had never seen or heard of one, and talk about ugly! it was black with orange wings and trim, looked like a refugee from a Halloween fly-in. I repainted it, put aluminum gear on it (it had already been converted to a tail dragger), and hung that US-41 on it and took it for a spin. The dang thing weighs over 20 pounds, it's had so many repairs.

Second flight the rudder servo arm broke and I tried to remove a fence post with the wing. When I rebuilt the wing I stretched it to 96 inches. I noticed somebody's build pics show barn door ailerons, mine has full span strips (except for the added area). Are the barn doors your own mod, or is that an update for the kit?

I put about 1-1/2 degrees right thrust, and no down thrust, and mine is steady as a rock (and glides like one, too) As long as I have power on it flies great, I use an 18-8 MA Classic. It's touchy when landing, wants to nose over unless you're ready on the elevator, and you have to come in under about 1/4 throttle, land it fast like a warbird. I went with the nylon prop because I broke over $100 worth of wooden ones getting the hang of landing.

One thing I noticed about mine when I first started flying it was the vert. stab was "wobbly" and it would wander in yaw some. I sheeted the vert tail and rudder, stiffened it up, and the wandering stopped. I love flying it, it will do nice loops and stall turns I have to loop it from a shallow dive. Adverse yaw is awful, the rudder gets a workout. I tried a roll once, almost didn't recover from the resultant spin; too heavy and roll rate can be timed with a calendar. It's loud as hell (Pitts muffler) , everyone at the field kids me about my "terrorist weapon". here's a pic or two:

Carlos Murphy

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What is the "stated" wing span for the BNT?

I bought mine from a club member and the span was 105" with built up tips and with my glider tow release, TNT landing gear, brakes and G-45 it's weight was 16lbs.

I think you can still see pics of it at my old clubs web site, www.baysidercclub.com