devens

Isee 56 smileys I would post them all but I am not that bored. Iwould stay away from guys who use this one very much yickes!!

I just bought the Russian Thunder scheme 88" yak. It will be here next week I hope. Iwould love any suggestions from current owners. This thread is VERY long and I have only been following a couple months.

Iplan to build the plane for extreme freestyle/3D flight. Iwant to build as light as possible. So far this is what I plan: Ifly with a JR9303 2.4ghz, Iplan not to use any cock pit frills, wheel spats or spinner. Iplan to use aAR-7000 receiver with a single battery. Iwant to run fromeco li-ion w/ regulator or A123's. of course the ignition batttery. Iam leaning towards a DL55 with stock muffler although I haven't ruled ot DA and others. I want a light engine set-up with plenty off midrange power for hovering and harriers. Ihavn't bought the engine yet so Ihave complicated decision. Iknow nothing about the Area 51 engines. Servos will be Hitec 7985MG/7955TG on rudder. Iplan on titanium axels and sm foam wheels. Manual choke and no opti kill.

Comments? I know there is a lot of experiencefollowing this thread.

Money really isn't an object but I want to spend wisley and build for weight savings. .

D

xtraflyr

My Feedback: (11)

I would personally go with redundant batteries,for the little bit of weight it's well worth it .,I would have my first Yak if I had dual batteries...The DL with the stock muffler would be the way to keep it light. I have a DA with a KS 1060 Tuned pipe and a Mejz.22x8 with that I'm close to 18 lbs. It pulls well out of a hover,not like it's powered with a DA 85 or anything. Also the opti Kill weighs nothing and is also good to have,if your battery does dump at least it would shut your motor off before you hit the ground.. Then again if your fail safe is set to shut down the motor,that willdo the same thing as the opti kill.. I also run a manual choke,no need for another servo,for me anyways..

Cant wait to see that Russian Thunder scheme!

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

Funny you almost describedmy setup. I have a DL-50 in with stock muffler in mine and it has TONS of power. Very light engine setup. I also run only one rx battery and one ignition battery. I'd recommend the A123 without regulators. I'm using the AR7000. Ihave the 7955 servos and love them. I'd recommend the Kavan air tires. They are so light...3.7 oz for a 4" pair. With your titanium axles and foam tires you'll probably sace 3 ounces over my tire/axle setup. Mine is 17# 13 ounces. That's without the gear skirts which are about 2 ounces. I have the manual choke and still like the opti kill either. Oh I highly recommend a 4" carbon fiber spinner from Azure hobbies. Only 3 ounces. At my weight this thing feels very very light. It just floats.

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

I got 56 simileys also, but they are a bunch slower to come up to use. Still use them though.

Mounted the repaired BME and ran it....runs very good. I did notice that one of the things he did in the repair was to add an additional base gasket (total of 2). I can only say this is probably to reduce the compression slightly. No other visual differences but I was told they did a change on the reed block and a new back end for the engine to keep it from breaking. Anyways, engine started right up and ran super.

Went out tonight between thunderstorms and got 3 wonderful flights in. The engine ran flawlessly and I was doing low (for me about 15' or so) hovers almost immediately. KE flight is very solid but has some moderate/to slight coupling to the wheels. I believe it is enough that I'll do a mix to make it a bit easier to fly. But it's rock solid when you do them, just have to hold a bit of up elevator. I ran a Vess 23A prop tonight. It pulled the plane pretty good but I think I'm gonna go back to a 23B. It definitely has more thrust than the A. But hovers seemed slightly easier with A prop. Speaking of hovers, this baby locks in them super.

I expermented with aileron rates in the flat spin. I got the plane to do the best ones I've done with it tonight.....but still average at best. Someone asked about my stick movements for flat spin...here they are. I go high, very high and then a little bit more. Go straight down with zero throttle (idle) and then after the plane gets moving pretty good, I go slowly to full left aileron and then at the same time feed right rudder and down elevator. It pops right into a very flat spin at that point. Then usually Imaintain full down elevator and right rudder and start to feather the aileron back to center. Also at this point, ifI'm trying to really get it spinning fast I'll start picking up the throttle, all the way to full throttle if I'm trying to get it to rise, or just letit come down very slowly at an idle. Fun! This is a "Blender" and is absolutely the best and proper procedure to do an inverted flat spins. I've been doing this for years and it is my favorite maneuver. All my other planes respond well to this. My UCDs (both sizes) will actually do a rising flat spin under very calm and perfect conditions. So did my Mayhems (both sizes) and my Twist. All my other planes will usually slow to a very slow decending flat spin. I'll usually bring the plane down to a low level, about 20' or 15' if I'm feeling brave and then center the sticks and roll out and add up elevator to recover fully about 5' to 10' above the ground. I have done inverted flat spin landings...but you usually only get one shot at those.

This Yak, seems to like it best to use the full ailerons and then feather pretty quickly back to center and use elevator and rudder to try and maintain. I did get a few that probably made 8-10 revolutions but then it just rolls out of them and goes into a weird looking "waterfall" like flip or KE spin. I kept expermenting and getting a little better but not satisfied yet. If I pick up the throttle, it rolls out quite early. I did do a very close lateral balance before I flew it this time. Had to add 1 ozs to one of the wings...can't remember which one right now and the plane is upstairs. Anyways I did get them acting better tonight. But still working on improvements. In fairness this was only flights 16,17& 18 because I've been fighting a few engine problems. Hopefully those are behind me now and I can get on to flying this beautiful baby.

For comparison...my QQ Yak (86") and my TOC Yak 33% did wonderful flat spins. Also my Aeroworks 50CC Yak did a nice flat spin, but I only flew it once and gave it away. So...Yaks will do them...and I'm sure this one will too,,,,,but I got to figure out the magic.

Had a great night...just as I got everything put away the skies opened up and gave us a real serious thunder storm. But it looks pretty good until 11:00am tomorrow. So....I'm planning on doing some more flying. As of yet though...I'm only getting 5 flights until my engine goes south....but this one even sounds better so I'm hoping for 6!??!!?!? maybe more.

Thanks you guys.
Barry

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

Another trick you can do to same 6ozs is to use one A123 battery and no ignition battery. You can use the charge cord that comes on the A123 and hook it to the ignition. It will power the ignition and the radio. This seems a little risky to me and I don't do it...at least not yet. But it does work and would save a battery and a switch and a extension or two. Some swear by this and use it all the time...but I'm not sure.

Mine weighs 17lbs 9ozs with out wheel pants and with two batteries. It flys very good there and I have adequate to plenty of power, but I'm at 4800' so you may be plenty with the DL or DA. I know I wouldn't have enough power with a DA up here with this plane. It would fly but pulling out of the hover would be very slow, at best.

One thing, this plane is one of the easiest planes to land I've ever flown. And I love the "springy" landing gear. If I do hit a little hard it just absorbs all the shock and bounces and you go right into "another" landing.

Looking forward to tomorrow.
Thanks
Barry

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

I would not connect the ignition and receiver to the same battery. It's bad practice. Trust me I do this stuff at work all day. You want to isolate the two with separate batteries. Also keep the wiring isolated. I ran this by an electronics engineer at work that is very smart. He said he would keep them on separate batteries for the added 3 oz. Why people started doing this is beyond me.

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

People do it because of their obsession with light weight. I gotta say it tempts me....but I don't think I would ever actually do it. I'm pretty satisfied with the power I'm getting...but man, if I just had a little more power to weight....

Thanks
Barry

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

The ignition generates electrical noise that goes back into the receiver via their shared connection. It's not a good way to save weight.

diamondave

My Feedback: (29)

i got the smileys, if you just type in without hittin reply it only gives you 12, hitting reply or maybe quote gives the rest

warbird72

My Feedback: (79)

Yeeehaaa Keep up the great work guys..

devens

Iagree with the need to isolate the receiver and the igntion circuits. You are correct about the noise generated by the ignition. Most know this and wouldn't have dreamed of it before 2.4ghz. It may not cause RF interference with 2.4 but you could potentially damage the receiver I would guess.

Thanks for the good feed back. I am settling in on a DL55 from Valley View RC.

Gatorb8

OK, I found the faces, I just couldn't bring myself to hit the smiley face when I was so bummed about leaving the Yak behind

Joe, trust me if I could have brought a trailer I would have! My jeep is my trailer behind an RV. It was full to the top! I just won't do the redneck 2-trailer thing. I even bought a DA 85 to bolt on the Yak for this altitude! Like Richard suggests: electric is king at this altitude. I've been flying a Primo 15 with around 7 oz/sqft wing load, 20 oz AUW, 300 watts, 48 oz thrust . It puts a smile on my face!

Barry, try these stick inputs for the inverted flat spin: go to altitude, level flight, throttle to idle, full down elevator, when inverted add full left aileron then full right rudder, in about a second or 2 when she is spinning good go to neutral aileron. keep the throttle at idle. this will put mine in a long and beautyful flat spin. I have noticed that if cg is too far back, IFS gets sloppier. Think I'm gonna cry since I won't see that Yak manuver for a while!

Anyway, I'll check in occasionally. Time to get the fly rod out and fire up the dirt bike!

Gatorb8 (out of the swamp)

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

I can get my Yak to do beautiful inverted flat spins with basically the same inputs as you Gator. I always enter from a blender so it's spinning. Then when I apply the down elevator, the ailerons go to neutral and stay there. The rudder stays pegged right. All I do is feather the elevator and throttle. It stays locked in for as long as I have altitude. My Extra is the same way. My other 3D planes needed opposite aileron. That doesn't work with these EF models.

xtraflyr

My Feedback: (11)

I usually enter mine from a normal inverted posistion. Keep adding down until the plane stalls,kick in left rudder,left ail, full down elev. let it rotate a few times then neautralize the ail. and add a few clicks of throttle works everytime.. I actually like upright Flats,idk why. I just like the way it looks and it's easier for me to get out of. One day I'll be able to flip from uprights to inverteds without it looking rushed or sloppy..

And I just can't get KE spins at all with this plane. On my old school Midwest Cap would fall right into it..

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

I think it's easy to give too much down elevator in an inverted falt spin since the elevator surfaces are so huge. It doesn't take much down when mine settle out. My CG is in the aft-most part of the range so it takes even less.

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

Gator, Joe.
Basically I think your inputs are the same as mine. I've been somewhat successful with flat spins at zero throttle but as soon as I pick up the throttle it rolls right out. I may try reducing my down elevator and maybe even less rudder. I have massive throws on this baby. I have tried just using less with my sticks but sometimes that doesn't work too well with the expo and other stuff in the radio.

Gator what are you doing in Colorado? Just vacationing. You are getting pretty close to me. Not sure where you are exactly but Denver is about 8 hours from me. Salt Lake City about 4 hours. I have occasion to go see my son in SLC often. If this was desireable to you I'd love to meet you there and I'd bring a couple planes (including my Yak) and let you have a "fix" if you want. I love to meet fellow RC guys and etc. I don't know exactly where to fly in SLCbut I know there are some nice places there. Also, I go into Wyoming sometimes. If that worked better we could meet there. Anyways, if your interested let me know. Might be able to get you a interium "Yak Fix".

Thanks
Barry

xtraflyr

My Feedback: (11)

That would be the differance.Mine is set very close to neutral,just a touch of down while inverted which I like. It's easier to adjust for low inverted passes..

I'm kinda excited today...I get to see the first 110"EF Yak in Russian Thunder scheme fly today.. My friend Riley Kissenberth is going to maiden it today..Going to sell his QQ 101and the 110" is going to be his new ride! I'll be able to find out what the differance in the two flying are..

I'm going to want one more then now I bet after seeing it fly.. Dont have that kinda of money laying around,unless I sell my 88" and the 74"Yaks..

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

Joe,
Now that I'm back with the Yak, I'll be able to try some of those solutions. I know this Yak has tremendous rudder authority and I have basically max throws. I do you triple rates and indepenent of each other so I can select say: medium rudder, low elevator, low aileron for a place to start. Then maybe medium rates totally. Then high rudder, medium elevator, etc. Well, you get the picture. I have experminted with that somewhat but really don't think I did much with the elevators. Maybe that is the trick. I might have just too much elevator and it's trying "flip" out instead of staying flat. I'm sure I can get this straightened out. Also, my CG is at the aft range of the recommmend mark. So....maybe moving that slightly forward would help also. That might make KE better also (less coupling).

Anyways, I'm back in the game. Raining today so won't do much. I went out very early this morning and maiden flight my new Edge. It was cold, windy and light rain. Stupid to be out there but just couldn't resist. Got in one flight....that was it. I'm looking at the weather...I might be able to get the Yak out again on Tuesday evening.

Anyways, I must be hooked to do a maiden flight in the rain!??!?!?! Don't know what the cure is....

Thanks
Barry

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

Gator,
I just reread your post. I missed the reference to dirt bikes the first time. Dirt Bikes are my first love. That is what I do. I'm old now but still love to ride. I have two Honda CRF450. One for me and another for my son. I almost exclusively ride sand dunes now. And...........I live on the best place on earth to ride sand dunes. I know, dosen't make sense....Idaho....Sand Dunes....but it's true. We have the best in the world. 20 minutes from my house. I ride there a lot. People come from all over the world (literally) to ride here. The other day I was visiting with a man from Austruala. Many many people come from California. Kinda makes me mad really. 15 years ago I'd go riding and I might see another person. On a busy day may three other persons. Now they are there 100s at a time. On holidays, 1000s. They are invading my little heaven.

But, if you like to ride sand (or our many trails) and you could see your way up here....we'd do dirt bike riding in the morning and flying in the afternoon. Then I'd have a whole selection of planes you could choose from. I only have one rule for people that fly my planes: "If you crash it.....don't worry about it. Just grab another."

Thanks
Barry

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

Gator,
I must really be tired this morning. I missed your reference to Fly Fishing. I don't fly fish. (or any other fishing) It's just not my thing. But I live about 1 hour from the Henry's fork of the Snake River. World class fly fishing I'm told. Me, I just like the long lazy raft ride two or three times a year.

Just another thing to intice you up my way. Oh...we also have Idaho Baked Potatoes. Doesn't get any better than that.

Thanks
Barry

devens

OK Ihave decided to bump up my original servo plans. I am going to go with at least a 333oz/in @ 6v servo. I am waiting for the kit to arrive before I pull the trigger on anything else. I imagine I will take a couple three weeks to complete my build. Iam still thinking throught the engine and the electrical power set-up.

BTWIam developing a wicked graphics scheme to "set-out" my russian thunder scheme.

I can't wait to show of photos and most of all a vid!

D

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

devens,
I'm using the HS7955 on the Rudder, elevators and ailerons. There is no reason to go more than that. In fact I'm sure the 7985 would be fine on everything but the Rudder, but I think you only save about $10 a servo. For me it wasn't worth it so I went with all 7955, They are nice servos.

I just purchase a DLE55 to put in an Edge that I'm working on. I haven't run it yet...but it weighs 3lbs 4ozs with the sparkplug, the ignition, and the stand offs. That is the exact same weight as my DA50R. Exactly. And I'm hoping, because it's 55cc it will be a little more powerful than the DA. Hoping for 2 extra pounds of thrust, but I'm not sure. In a couple weeks I can tell you if it meets my expectations.

Probably the lightest and best engine for the Yak is the BME Xtreme 58CC. This mutha is a POWERHOUSE. I'm getting about 29.5lbs thrust at my elevation, turning a Vess 23-B prop at almost 7100 RPM. My (3) DA50Rs give me about 22.5lbs thrust. (these are realistic numbers, though many will tell you they get more, but I'm at 4800' elevation) It weighs 2lbs 15.5ozs with the ignition and sparkplug and the shorter standoffs. It's an amazing engine but I can't yet recommend it. I bought two engines and have exchanged them back and forth (sending the other in for repair). They have netted me a total of 18 total flights. I will say that Tom has been very helpful and knows he has had some problems with the engine and is gladly warranting them doing the required upgrades at no charge. This most recent engine for me (the one I just received and mounted to my Yak and flew the 3 flights yesterday) sounds different and more better. It runs great right now. I don't have more than a 5 flight sequence yet. But I'm willing to bet this one will be much better. It just sounds different/better. I noticed serval changes that look like improvements. If the engine lasts (I also have a friend in Ashton that has the same engine but his failed also) then I'm gonna say it's the best selection. But, I not sure you want to take the risk or not. Power is ever so important to me because of the losses in our thin air. This plane wih the BME, when it runs, is about the best power to weight ration I've gotten. It is impressive. Here's hoping it lasts this time.

I'd make sure you mount an optical kill switch similar to Smart Fly. That is a feather weight option that really gives me piece of mind and is a lot safer if something goes wrong.

I can wholey recommend the A123 Batteries. I changed over to them just this year and I love them. I now have 3 planes (55CC Edge will be 4) that I'm using them in. I conserveatively get 3-4 flights before I must recharge. It only takes 7-10 minutes to charge in the field. They are great and very high performance. Tom at Wild Hare is the best place to get them I think. He has a starter kit that includes a battery, a HD switch and a A123 charger that gives you the input mA when you charge. It's a great combo, $129 I think. And he's a good guy to get stuff from.

I wouldn't go with foam wheels. They really tend to flat spot. Especially with a plane this heavy. I used DuBro 4" tires, rubber. I think they weigh 3.5ozs each. The foam would save 2-3 ozs but I don't like that flat spor issue. I use them on my glow planes that weight about 7-9lbs. But this is simly to heavy.

If you use the BME engine it has a side mount carb and I just drilled a 5/8" hole in the lower right side of the cowl and reach in about 1.5" and turn the choke on/off with my finger. Saves the choke servo set up (especially hard with the BME because of odd angle of carb) and the 3ozs weight of the servo/arm and lead. You could drive a very small hole and use a small screwdriver if you wanted but the 5/8" hole doesn't distract and kinda looks "trick". If you use the DA or DLE you can make a primitive wire manual operating lever to activate the choke.

You'll probably be very satisfied with this airplane. Most are.

Good luck.

thanks
Barry

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

One other thing...I always use MLP 1.5" aluminum servo arms. They are very "trick" and I really like the way they look and work. Anodized red and short on the servo stem which lowers the stress on the servo. They are drilled on the end for a 4/40 screw to hook up your ball links. Very cool. They are available from Air Wild. Also good people to deal with. Very reliable.

thanks
Barry

Gatorb8

Barry,
Iwas looking hard at the BME 58 and after asking around at Joe Nall, I concluded what you are experiencing, hope they get the bugs worked out! I bought a DA85 and I'm gonna hang it on the Yak when I get back to the swamp. There is a thread on the DA85 stump puller. I know Chris won't warrantee it, but it looks like too much fun!

Thanks for the invite to fly, I'll PM you when I get a chance, I may be in your neck of the woods this summer.

Gatorb8 (out of the swamp)

MIXMASTER

My Feedback: (15)

I have to have one of these at some point($$$$$$$). I'm selling TOC-E Yak!!!!!! I'm finally convinced this plane is better in every way except maybe hovering, pull out is a little slow with DA50 & 22X10 Xoar. I was even coerced into a harrier landing by the owner!!! I didnt want to, not being familiar with his set-up & plane, however I gave in and went for it. Not that hard when the plane locks in good with a little aileron and floats at idle. The kicker was inverted flat spins and harriers, I cannot even try inverted harriers, both my 50cc planes quit when inverted and low throttle(DA50s). His plane made it seem easy again, low throttle, inverted and the harriers were easy to control, felt like I could be DOD after little practice. This plane and maybe a 89" AJ Slick-perfect combo!!!!