nitro wing

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I know I could search around and maybe find my anwers,but I"ll post them all in one spot.
For a basic light 50cc set up.

Throttle rod
I have a sullivan #581 rod,plastic with metal studs and then to a plastic ball link both ends
Thats OK?


Fueltank
One Tygon line to carb,one is vented,but is long and coiled once around the outside top of tank,then exit bottom as usual,to prevent seepage? Neoprene line inside tank?

Batteries
For ignition I want to run just a 1000mha 4 cell nicad,looking for 60 minutes use time.Thats OK?

Switch
For ignition I bought a Cermark DSC switch with JR connectors.
The ignition box on my engine had bare wires to attach favourite connectors,can I
attach a JR connector or do I need to use a small Deans instead and cut off the JR end on my switch?

Cut off
I purchased a Smartfly system,havent looked it over yet,but read online that its easy to install.Correct?

Receiver battery
I'll stick with Nicads if possible and light enough
I had a 2500 5 cell 6 volt in mind.There will be 5 x 5955TG on board.Again,looking for 60 minutes of moderate use.
If there is a lighter and simple Lipo set up I will consider it,if the cost is not much higher.

Receiver
I will likely not own a 2.4,so I was going to run a JR 790 PCM.This is adequate if i take all the RF noise precautions?

This is for a 80 inch Midwest Extra/Taurus 52 combo.I need to keep the battery weight down,as the engine is a bit overkill.
The rest of the aircraft seems to be taken care of.I have built a fair bit in the past.
Thanks for any helpful replies.

Dr1Driver

DON'T use Tygon for the gas lines. Tygon will swell and soften upon continuous contact with gasoline and will eventually fail. Use neoprene.

Dr.1

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

Those yellow lines that I see in everyones posts are neoprene? I thought they were tygon,but I read to use neoprene inside the tank?
Good point made though,maybe this will clear up some questions for others too

sweetpea01

My Feedback: (10)

I fly the IMAC circuit here in the SW Region.

Never have I heard or seen anyone do this.


We all use Tygon in the tank. We use small Zipties to tubing so it won't slip off in flight. Also if you leave your plane sitting for a long length of time (winter time usually) we typically replace the lines with fresh lines (its cheap and easy maintanence)

We never leave gas in the tank after flying.....always empty it.


And I've never seen Tygon go "soft" After a year of flying I've seen it get harder and not as flexible but never soft.


These are just my observations

Hammbone

My Feedback: (309)

The best fuel line to use for gas is the blue "easy flex" tubing. Tygon is O.K., but will stiffen after about a year and need to be replaced.

The JR connector will be fine on your ignition.

Everything else you asked about will work fine also. It may not be the way I would do it, but there's lots of different ways to do things.

Jim

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

Here's an interesting post with a pic of EasyFlex in gas tank klunk usage
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=6861578

Hammbone

My Feedback: (309)

Hmmm.
I've been using the easy flex for about 10 years now and it has always remained very flexible for me. What could the difference be? Different gas composition, or different oil? It just doesn't make sense to get such different results.

Jim

Tired Old Man

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Many have been using Tygon for years, and will continue to do so. Look inside the tank of your lawnmower or weedeater. Odds are likely you'll see that same old yellow tygon line in there. Yes, it will swell a little after first contact with gas but simple small zip ties at all the connection points generally takes care of any potential problems. For a bullet proof fuel system, regardless of what line you use, adding some form of barb to the brass tubing at the tank and using zip ties cures about anything.

Neoprene is good as well but can present flexibility issues with fuel lines folding forward inside the tank and cutting off the fuel flow in extreme maneuvers. Viton works also but is expensive and hard to find. Pick what's readily available, use it for everything, and pay attention to connection details and all will be well.

Most lithium 2,500 mAh batteries are a lot lighter than a 6v, 2,500 mAh nicad. I'm referring solely to lithions not LiPolys for various reasons. The only place the lithium ions take a hit is in using a regulator. They still end up a close match in weight while having greater usable capacity when driving a system set up to accept 6 volts. Since you'll be using two batteries, one for ignoition and one for flight, you may want to look into this a little further. If you want to stay with nicads a double A, 4.8v, 1,000 mAh battery works great for the ignition and a 5 "D" cell 2,500mAh for the receiver will be just peachy. Don't fret about the higher than 6 volts you get after a fresh charge.

The switches you have work just fine for both ignition and reciever applications. Deans are a pita to disconnect without eventually pulling the heat shrink off the terminals. Just splice a spare servo lead onto the ignition leads. Too easy.

Nothing at all wrong with your receiver selection. Just ground check the system engine off and engine running to make sure you are glitch free at 100' plus both ways. No more than a 10% difference at 100'. Better to check the system with an old ppm receiver first since the pcm will hide a lot of what may be there.

The SmartFly ignition kill is easy to install. No worries.

Excellent engine choice!!

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks everyone and Pat.
You always take the time to explain things simply and to the point.
For some reason I have,and I think many other too,have thought that the lithium ion and Lipoly were of very similar makup and usage...I better pay attention here then.
I need to keep the weight out of this Extra,its a small plane to have that 52 in the nose,but it was the only thing I had available (budget) to mount the motor into.Later the 52 will likely find its way into a bigger EF,Wildhare,Airwild ,QQ etc. Yak/Extra or anything that is suitable.
I'll take your advice on this lithium set up then.Something that this smaller Extra wont have to struggle with,and perhaps something I can use in the larger airframe later.
I have no experience with regs.I do have A Triton Charger that charges my E Planes.
What would you or others recomend as a light flightpack.Keep in mind that I dont need 8 flights a day, 4 is usually good and a field top up charge is Ok.

Tired Old Man

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A pair of 2 cell 2,500 mAh Lithium Ions with regulators, or, a pair of the new A123 cells. I don't have any experience with them but the true experts using them have no bad vibes to pass along. The most notable difference between lipoys and li-ons is that the lipolys can be destructive when mistreated where the li-ons aren't explosive. An even safer choice is lithium manganese but they may be the same as the A123. I'm not sure.

The engine is a bit much for the plane but you can offset some of it by tail mounting rudder and elevator servos. Plan for loacating the flight battery about where a center mounted rudder servo would usually go. Keep everything as far back from the firewall as the electrical leads will permit. Don't add any weight by "beefing up" any structures. Leave off spinners and wheel pants unless the spinner is of fiberglass or carbon. The fiberglass spinners at Esprit Models cost about the same as an average aluminum but weigh next to nothing. Easy to paint, too. Wood props are lighter than carbon props.

If you already have a 5 cell nicad, then by all means use it if it's in good condittion. You can save some bucks using what you already have. Field charging is not that big of a deal.

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

Ok,but why do I need a pair,or do you mean for ignition too?
Yes,all tail servos are/will be tailmounted.
Going wood prop,good call on the spinner.
Dont have flightpack or ignition pack yet,so I could upgrade to a better/lighter system now.
Bought one ounce wheels,instead of the DUBro rubber chunks
I know this plane is not what I want it to be,but I'll make effort to make it as good as possible within reason.

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

The one ounce wheels fall apart on these bigger planes. The foam tires with thin plastic rims right? I would not use them. Been there a few times and they shred the foam and/or break the rims. Not worth the one ounce savings per tire.

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

They are DUBRO wheels, the rim looks like the rubber ones,but a foam wheel, they are MUCH lighter and cost the same.At this time duration may not be an issue for that part. I expect this Extra to only be in service for 60-100 flights,before it gets replaced by something suitable in mid 2008.
The Lite wheels you had were off shore or brand make? Sometimes there is little difference anymore...many things have become generic with different prices []

altavillan

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Every thing you want to know about a123 is right here...ttp://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6166262/tm.htm...... And Wild Hare has a nice selection of a 123 stuff. Don't evan think about buying li-whatever for batteries. The a123s are so much safer and no regs needed for almost all high end servos. Your ignition might need lower voltage but a Tiny Smart fly reg. can run ignitions for just a few grams. One A123 2 cell, around 2400mah will give you 6 to 8 - 16 minute flights. I get 8 - 14 to 20 minute flights on one 2800 TBM Li-ion and will eventualy switch to a123 as mine get older. Keep the wiring short as possible and solder in dual leads from the switch or switches to get two connections to the reciever.
Dubro tygon does not get stiff for a long time, 2 years plus but is a easy thing to replace the line in the tank now and then. If the clunk doesn't rattle change it. Outside the tank it should last as long as the plane. I shaped a center punch to expand the ends of brass/aluminum tubing and don't need to build barbs. Takes about 10 seconds to flair the ends.

altavillan

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Chief; has these china made wheels. They are light and have not started to wear landing a 17.5 lb EF yak about 100 times.....http://www.chiefaircraft.com/rcmsec/...fAircraft.html

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

Nitro, one Two cell A123 with 2300 mAh capacity will fly my EF-88 yak an easy 90 minutes. (9x10) When I first put it in I got 15x10 min flights but that was flying easy in circles. My no take off voltage is 6.4 and that is conservative. Once they(the 2 pack) get below 6v they can drop voltage fairly quickly. (If you take off at 6v you might find youself dangerously low on volts by the end of the flight)

I use the Smart Fly Super switch. If you use a fail safe type switch like Smart Fly or Fromeco's Badger you will have the same amount of success as using a single receiver will give.

I use the Thunder Power 1010C to recharge and can put 1050 mAh back in the battery in less than 20 minutes at 5 amps. I have over a hundred flights on mine and the guys at the field are now using the A123 on electric helies and other GS plane and think they are great.

Good luck.

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

The Chief tires look like Dubros and are not the ones I was talking about. The ones Dave Patrick sold were foam tires with light plastic rims, about .7 ounces each. On these heavy planes they pretty much flatten out and ride on the rims, don't taxi too well.

nitro wing

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Just double checking my throtle linkage here,Sullivan#581 with plastic ball links.
They claim no RFI ,its non conductive I guess,even with the CF composite?

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...XFV43&P=7#tech

altavillan

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Thats the one I use exclusively. There is not much CF in them. But none of my throttle runs are longer than 8 to 10 inches. Regular plastic slip on ball links work excelent for throttle as well as plain old plastic snap together push rod ends. Just make sure the holes in the throttle lever are not oversize allowing them to shake and wear. Inspect regularly and they are as safe as a bolt on type. Safer really because they do not have a nut that can vibrate loose and no excess weight hanging on the throttle shaft inducing more throttle shaft wear. On the servo end use a set screw type quick link for easy adjustment. I also like the control horn that is adjustable for length. They come with the Hobbyco ts35 servo that is the same as the Hitech 225 mighty mini.

If you need a long throttle push rod run, and are concerned about RFI, Butt together a regular pushrod to a short piece of the 581 near the engine where heat would have an effect.

maukaonyx

nitro wing, glad to see you started this thread up. We've talked before over on the CMP Giles 202 thread. Still flying that one? I only have one flight on mine before Winter set in, so mine awaits lotsa air time soon. Got the urge to go gasser with 50cc size too, and here I am reading with interest. I just got a DL-50 and am awaiting delivery of my AKM/BME 30% Extra 330L. All this gas set up is new to me, so the thread is great. Keep asking the questions that I have not got around to asking or even thinking about yet! The responses that are being posted are extremely helpful, thanks everyone!!! Jon

Tired Old Man

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I'm going to go to the opposite side regarding the connection at the throttle servo. Using any type of easy connector, set screw or or otherwise provides excellent opportunity to see how well the optical kill or other engine kill switches will work. What you have is a slide type connector that totally dependant on maintaining clamp pressure via a screw against the rod. Vibration can and has removed the set screws from these types of connectors many, many times. If you go to an IMAA event and the inspectors see an "easy" type connector on any control surface or throttle connection it's supposed to be grounded until replaced with a positive connection such as a clevis or bolt on ball link.

For small thread screw or nut connections use green Locktite. You can apply it after setting the screws since it is designed to wick into the threads after assembly. Once dry it does not break loose if you atarted with clean metals. It can be the devil to break loose later, but it always holds until moved by you.

As for the throttle rod itself....There's been a long standing arguement about the acceptabe types of materials that has never ended. I use whatever suits the purpose as long as there is no metal to metal contact at either end. Wood, plastic, cable, carbon tube, or steel rod doesn't matter to me as long as the rod is separated from sany metal levers with a plastic housing at both ends.

altavillan

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Guess I have two choices; Get my fingers where fingers were never designed to go or stay away from IMAC events. Hey what do you win at one of those things anyway, A gallon of glow fuel?

nitro wing

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I'll be using ball links as I do on other linkages,with loctite the little nut seems to stay put,but I do a preflight each day also.
That linkage is short,less than 8 inches..

maukaonyx
The Giles is parked,needed the engine and elect. for my EF Yak.
I actually had intentions of keeping this thread for future use,as most of the questions I am asking seem to get repeated over and over.
Easier to lump it all into one informative thread.

I can purchase a A123 battery for the receiver,and they dont need a regulator? I can also use my favourite connector on it?
sounds simple
Anyone have a link to them?

altavillan

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Wild Hare is about the first to start bundling the batteries and matching chargers,switches and high amp connectors....http://www.wildharerc.com/products/accessories/

RTK

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You can also try Sin City Jets for A123 also.