Racinrc14

My Feedback: (7)

Hello,

I recently acquired a Byron 1/3 scale Eagle kit that is NIB. I have never built an all-foam airplane before, let alone a very large one. I am a beginner in the ranks of large scale airplanes, although I have been flying since 1980. So, if any of you guys (or gals) have any recommendation as far as building, what to power it with, and covering suggestions I am all ears. I can't wait to finish it, but I really have no idea what I'm in for. Will I need to buy high torque servos? Will have to buy a large engine, or should I convert my older (but never run) Mac chainsaw engine? Is Econocote the way to go, or should I 'glass it? Any suggestions would be most helpful! Thanks!

Tommy

tonyc

My Feedback: (4)

I have had the Pitts which is the same as the Eagle. Yes to the high torgue servo question. This plane is too large for standard servo.

As for motor, something that will not quit on you. A dead stick landing is a little harry. You have to dive for the ground and flare out.

As for covering, you want light, there are some very good builders that can glass and paint light. I am not one of them. If you want to fly and fly a lot I would go with low temp iron on covering. This will not look as good as a glass/paint job but it will fly a little better.

My Pitts was a glass/paint job and it flew very well, but I did't build it. One of those good builders built it. I know my limits and its not painting.

Hope this helps

tony

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Hi Tommy,
Having owned 3 Byron Pitts over the years, here's my suggestions:
Double up on the 1/8" inch firewall and make it 1/4".
On all my Byron planes I always put a 1/4" balsa "perimeter on the wings and tail surfaces. It makes the foam much more ding resistant and gives the covering something solid to adhere to.
Cover with Econokote or other low temp covering. You can f/g, using EPOXY not polyester, but it'll add around two extra pounds you'll have to lug around.
Use slow epoxy, especially when gluing the fuse sides together.
I always used a G-38, I feel it's a great sport plane with that engine. When you get used to it move the c/g back to give it some "snap". Some guys put on a which gives you a little more vertical, but costs a $100 more. A few guys put a G-62 which I felt was overpowering the airframe, but seemed ok.
Use standard servos, it flys fine with them.
Put a servo on each bottom aileron and forget about the torque rods, they're a pain.
Gasoline dissolves foam! Make sure the front of the fuse is sealed, especially by the exhaust, and check your fuel lines once in awhile and replace your tank stopper and lines every year.
Good Luck,
Jon

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Sorry, the second engine is a G-45, somehow got edited out.
Jon

Racinrc14

My Feedback: (7)

Thanks to everybody for the advice! Keep it coming!

Jon: how do you suggest adding the 'balsa perimeter' around the empennage and wings? Cut 1/4" off the foam and replace it with the balsa? Sounds like a good idea that I will incorporate into the airframe. Also, should I try to find the Byron motor mount for the G-38, or should I use something different? I agree that the 1/8" firewall seems a little thin, given the fact that most if not all of my previous sport planes had 1/4" firewalls! I assume I will need to create a pocket in the wing bottom for the aileron servos, how should I accomplish this? Man, it's nice to have you guys here!

Thanks and keep the advice coming.......PLEASE!

Tommy

Racinrc14

My Feedback: (7)

More questions, this time about performance. I am not too educated about the latest terminology, so please excuse my ignorance. What, exactly, does the term 3-D mean? I know 3-D is defined as an anacronym for 'three dimentional', but how does this term apply to flying? And will my Eagle be capable of this when it is completed? I think hovering Extras and the like are neat to watch, will my Eagle be able to do this? I will be more than happy if it flies smooth and scale, but the aerobatics would be nice also. Thanks again!

Tommy

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Hi Tommy,
First, the Eagle is not a 3d model. It's a biplane which adds some complications such as roll coupling and lots of drag, hence a bigger motor, which adds more weight, and on and on. You're better off getting a 3d "intro" model and practice with that. I'm not into 3d, maybe others can recommend a suitable plane.
To put a 1/4" perimeter, measure and mark off a 1/4" on the wing perimeter and carefully cut off the foam. Cut four pieces of 1/16" into strips for the wing tips. Soak the wood, use white glue (Titebond is good) to glue together, wrap around the tips and hold in place with masking tape. Let dry 24 hrs, trim the l/e and t/e of the tips flush with the wing. Make up 1/4" l/e and t/e and glue in place on the wing, using white glue and tape in place. Let dry, trim the tips, l/e and t/e to shape. Do the same for the tail feathers.
The 1/8" is ok until you flip the plane on the nose, the 1/8" breaks at the wedge piece, which is where the motor is mounted and it's a pain to repair. Use the exsisting fire wall, trace onto a piece of 1/8" about 1/4" oversize all the way around and laminate together. The original will fit into the recess in the fuse, the new piece will butt against the fuse. Blend the new firewall into the front and glass as shown in the instructions.
I would definitely use the Byron mount. You can contact Iron Bay at www.ironbaymodelcompany.com for the price.
Cut out a pocket for the servos using the soldering iron/copper wire method, use the torque tube groove to run the servo leads.
Good Luck,
Jon

Racinrc14

My Feedback: (7)

Jon

Outstanding! Thanks for the help, again! I will try to keep coming back to the forums and post progress/questions. I am planning on starting construction this week-end, I hope. I'm sure I will have more questions after I get started. I can envision how the doubled up firewall is going to work, very slick! Should beef up the nose area as a result of the 'interlocking' fit, very nice indeed. I wish I had discovered this forum a long time ago!


I don't really know if I would say that I am into 3D, since I don't really know what that is, but I love biplanes, and my Sig Smith Mini is about to retire, so the appeal of a big one was just too irresistable. I think the hovering thing is neat, but not neat enough (in my own opinion) to warrant buying another model just so I can '3D', or at least not right now. I like to fly planes the way they really fly, perhaps I am old school.

Tommy

Racinrc14

My Feedback: (7)

Sorry, yet another question: What is the soldering iron/copper wire method? (New to foam) I have an Ungar 80watt iron that I use for the r/c cars, will this work? I seem to remember something I read a long time ago about bending wire and inserting it into a slodering gun to cut foam with, is this what you mean? I will have to borrow a gun for that.

Thanks (again)
Tommy

akflyer

My Feedback: (7)

I used a G-38 on mine with an 18X6-10. I played with lots of props but always came back to this one. I had standard servos on all surfaces except the the ailerons. I used a 1/4 scale servo on them because 1 servo drives all 4 ailerons. I would go with hitec 645's nowdays cause they are cheap, have good torque, and are reliable. I was able to get a couple of torque rolls out of mine before it would fall off. 3D control throws were unheard of in those days. I loved this plane and might have to get another just to have a bipe in the fleet.

MAKE SURE YOU CHECK THE FUEL LINES, as posted above. It sucks when you are fueling the plane and it suddenly starts to get closer to the ground !!!!! I had to replace the bottom of the plane twice because of tank / line problems. The up side is that you can glue in a chunk of foam, sand it, then recover in no time at all.

You can bend a piece of wire and put it in the soldering gun to cut out pockets in the foam. Just don't get the wire too hot or it will take out more than you want. Play with it on a spare chunk of foam till you get the feel for how long you need to hold the trigger down and how to maintain the heat. I is real easy so dont let it scare you.

rcavi8ter

My Feedback: (19)

Tom
When you get it done we will try some good Ol 3D with it. make sure to use a big motor that is light weight. If you go gas I think a ZDZ 60 would be good if you go glow use a Moki 2.10. Keep it light and we will do our best to 3D it.

Chris
FBI+1

akflyer

My Feedback: (7)

The G-38 was almost enought to pull out of a hover. I would think the ZDZ 40 would make this a rocket. A ZDZ 60 would be insane, just the way we like it

Racinrc14

My Feedback: (7)

Chris,

Thanks, man! I assume this is Chris P. I'll try to keep in touch with the rest of the SPI guys, and maybe give you a call when she's finished.

Tommy

Racinrc14

My Feedback: (7)

Help me out guys, remember, I'm new to big airplanes. What is a ZDZ60? Is there a website for these engines for me to browse? Approximate cost?

Chris, I'm sure you have some old engine laying around I could buy reasonable, don't you? Hehe. This airplane shouldn't weigh more than 18-20 pounds when finished, the G-38 seems a reasonable match........

Tommy

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Hi,
Checked my firewall and it's about 3/4" oversize, not a 1/4".
I use an 18/6-10 also, about the best I found. I'm recovering mine, the econokote turned brittle and is splitting. I usually recover every three years.
One other thing, I use a 4-40 ball link on the elevator horn. After a while, if you use a clevis, the pin will get worn from the vibration and may break. Don't ask how I found out, it hurts too much!!
BRG,
Jon

akflyer

My Feedback: (7)

You can find ZDZ at rcshowcase.com It is a light high perf engine

Racinrc14

My Feedback: (7)

I went to the RC Showcase site and looked at those engines. I think a G-38 will be just fine, considering the cost of those ZDZ engines. I don't need unlimited verticle, I just want a good flying biplane when it's all said and done.

Jon, do I need to rig the elevator and rudder servos in a pull-pull configuration, or will the stock setup work okay? I am planning on giving each wing half it's own servo, but will it be necessary to double up on the tail control surfaces? I won't ask how you found out about the clevis pin wear situatuation, I can assume that it wasn't pretty! Have you ever popped the ball stud off of the elevator horn during somewhat hard landings? I race r/c cars and this happens frequently (ball cup popping loose from the threaded ball), I would hate for it to happen while flying. Also, will I need to add weight to the tail when using the G-38? I am planning on soldering up my own reciever battery pack out of leftover Ni-MH r/c car cells that are 3000mah capacity. Should I use a four cell (4.8 volts) or make a five cell (6.0 volts) battery? I can locate it in the back of the fuse if I need weight back there.

I am getting so much help, I want to thank everybody for the advice, it's making the entry into bigguns much easier than I anticipated. If only I could get the same kind of help with my flying skills!

Tommy

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Hi Tommy,
The ball link I'm talking about is not the "pop off" type. They're made by Dubro, and others, a 2-56 bolt goes through the ball and is bolted to the elevator horn. The nylon part that the ball is mounted accepts a 4-40 threaded pushrod. Also make sure you Locktite all the engine bolts and use jam nuts on all threaded clevis's. The stock set up works fine, just make sure you put a pushrod guide/support about half way. This is a pretty old kit, based on the Pitts, so just follow the directions. The original Pitts was flown with a Rossi .61 on a tuned pipe that ran in the fuselage. The engine drove a reduction gear set-up to swing a larger prop. This was during the time when there were no giant scale accessories, or engines, other than those you made or adapted yourself.
Since you are new to all of this, I have to say that the Eagle is not the best plane to learn to fly giant scale. It's a short coupled biplane, and even though it's an honest model, you can get yourself into trouble in a real hurry. I would suggest an entry level giant scale model to get some experience before trying to fly the Eagle. If you're focused on the Eagle, make sure someone with experience test flys it first and have someone helping you on the first five or so flights.
BRG,
Jon

akflyer

My Feedback: (7)

The eagle was my first giant scale, and with the throws recomended, it was a sheer joy to fly with no bad habits I can remember. As John said, loctite EVERYTHING that is a threaded, metal to metal connection.

The only issue I ever had was on landings, I do not recomend 3 point landings or takeoffs. To grease it in leave in a couple clicks of throttle and fly her in on the mains. 3 pointers allways resulted in a good bounce and a few seconds of sheer terror as you try to come in with the throttle and get the nose down at the same time, with out snapping it in.

I would go with 6v on the batteries. I used 1000 ma nicads on mine for years, before the advent of the monster batteries of today. I did not have any issues of being nose heavy, with the gear in the recomended locations. Of course, if you are going to use the big batteries, you could mount the rudder and elevator servos in the tail and eliminate all slop and flex, or the rudder on pull pull and elevator in the tail.

Just remember the lighter you keep it the better it will fly so you might think of the weight you will be adding with those big batteries.

Just thinking about how good this looked in the air, I am about ready to push the purchase button on this one !!!

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Hi,
The trick to get good landings everytime is to wheel it on and just as you touchdown, give a SLIGHT amount of down, it will "stick" the plane on the ground, then as speed bleeds off neutralize or put in a slight amount of up and it well settle to a three point attitude. You can 3 point it, but not consistantly, at least I can't. When it's right it's a thing of beauty, when it's messed up, it sure looks ugly hopping down the runway.
BRG,
Jon

Racinrc14

My Feedback: (7)

I will take heed to your advice, Jon, and maybe have a friend (are you listening, Chris?) do the honors for me. However, as flying goes, I have flown many types of airplanes (including a HORRIBLE Great Planes Super Decathlon) and I am confident that there is little that would surprise me, even with this airplane. Even so, I will definitely have an experienced big airplane pilot (Chris?) close at hand for the first few.

Akflyer, should I re-think the battery issue? If I don't need the monster batteries, I'll buy some 1000's to make it lighter. I keep forgetting about the 'keep it light' motto. Mounting the elevator servo in the tail seems logical. I suppose I will have to add in some kind of servo mounting rails back there, yes? Or do I mount it on the outside (yuck) and run a rod to one side of the elevator half, and let the internal horn do the coupling. I hate rigging pull-pull systems, is there an easy method to do this these days? It's been a while since I have attempted it, I think the last time I tried it was on a Goldberg Ultimate.

Jon, I am going to the shop after work today to pick up some 1/8" lite ply for the firewall. 3/4" all the way around, right? I guess It'll be obvious when I get to that point and see it in front of me. I am going to start on her tonight, I'll post pics this evening, hopefully!

Tommy

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Tommy,
NO!! Not Lite ply, it has to be AIRCRAFT (5 ply) plywood.
IMHO I wouldn't go to the trouble of mounting the servo in the back. My first Pitts, MANY years ago had a standard 550 pack, mounted about 1/2 back in the fuse. My present one has a 2 Amp pack, mounted in about the same location, mostly so I don't have to charge it at fun flys. I also mounted some lead all the way back in the fuse to make it a lot more "snappy".
Like I said before, just build it the way it's described in the instruction book. It's an almost ARC as it comes out of the box, don't turn it into a project.
Jon

Racinrc14

My Feedback: (7)

Jon,

Crap, I'll have to go back to the shop for the right ply, I bought the lite stuff. Oh well, I shouldn't need it tonight, anyway.

Speaking of where to mount the radio gear, was there supposed to be a plan sheet with the fuselage layout, showing where to mount all of the stuff? If so, I didn't get one. The only literature in my kit was the envelope with all of the promotional materials and the manual. I don't recall seeing any sort of 'plans'.

Tommy

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Tommy,
The only plan is a drawing of the interplane struts you have to make. There are no other drawings. If you look in your manual, you'll see that the servo's are mounted on plywood mounts that are glued to each side of the fuse.
One other thing, when you mount the nylon cabane struts, do not tighten down hard on the PAL nuts, you'll crush the foam. Use a small wrench and tighten just enough so they don't move. And run 1/4-20 tap through the cabane's bolt hole to clean up the molded threads
Jon

akflyer

My Feedback: (7)

Mounting in the tail is usually dont on the outside so you can get to the linkages and for ease of installation. But as John says, I would just go with the normal install.

I suggested the tail mounting, IF, you were going to use the big batteries. By mounting the servos in the tail then you don't have to worry about a balance issue with the big batts AND there is no slop OR flex in the linkage. It also would do away with having to add LEAD in the tail once you get used to it and want to make it come alive. Lead should ALLWAYS be a last resort on ANY aircraft.

This plane flys great with the stock linkages, so to keep it simple, stick with them.