RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

Yes, I´ll check the weight**http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../thumbs_up.gif

If there are problems with the dummy in Germany to sent it to you in the US, sent me a letter* Then I´ll order it und sent it to you, no problem.

They aren´t cheap, but good* http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...wink_smile.gif

The first flight I´ll made it alone, when it´s good I´ll take a Video http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...unge_smile.gif

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

I think Miss January has a "Runway" of her own....[:-]:D

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

I fancy it as more of a landing strip.;)

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

Back to topic guys** http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...unge_smile.gif


Finally some building pictures:

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu12.jpg

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu13.jpg


Next weekend I´ll test the engine for the first flight**

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

So, I take 75mm**

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu15.jpg

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu14.jpg



Now it´s time to fly** I´m still waiting for the right weather**

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu16.jpg

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

This morning it take the Gee Bee to drive to the airport*

The 3W 106er run perfekt, so its time to fly*

The take off was easy, up in the air the plane don´t want to turn the corner right - everytime it take the aileron on the rigth the Gee Bee did a Slip* I had to take mutch elevator to turn the modell in another direction*

To turn left, there´s no problem - So, whats wrong? Enginegrade? Mount the engine more right drift?

Here are some pics this morning, I was the only person at the airport** So sorry, no video**

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu17.jpg

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu18.jpg
http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu19.jpg

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

Can you provide more information?

What I understand you to say is that the model could turn left OK. But, it would not turn right?

What other flight characteristics did it exhibit?
Was it stable in pitch and yaw?
Was it overly sensitive in any flight attitude?
Did you feel you had adequate control throws and power?

Did you balance at 75mm from wing leading edge?

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

The plane was very sensitiv on the elevator.

The jaw and pitch was bad - snaped up and down, like a snake.

Control Throws and power is ok -JR 4421 Servos on each rudder.

To fly left is no problem, but if you want to go right the Gee Bee snaps into a slip / knife edge. Than you have to put hard on the elevator to get the plane into another position.

The Gee Bee flying go ahead muted seemt to be very sad trimming the rudder left, but I trimmed the rudder to the right side and nothing changes. The shoved to the left side when yougoahead all the time.

I hope you can understand what I mean, my english is so bad ;-)

Look at the pic, 7cm from wing leading edge to the first wood edge. So the balance should be7,5cm.

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu20.jpg

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

Hannes,

Let me offer you my theory as to what is going on with your Gee Bee…

I believe I understand you stated that LOTS of left rudder trim is required for straight flight at full power. If this is correct, then I believe you have too much right thrust in your engine set up. I realize the right thrust is molded into the dome, but with the right FIN offset, neutral rudder should produce straight flight.

Because the Gee Bee has an odd tendency to pitch DOWN with rudder input, your excessive left rudder trim is causing the aircraft to pitch down, which you are mixing out with some elevator up trim.
HOWEVER, when you bank the aircraft onto its right side, the wings are not creating lift and the rudder trim is causing a more pronounced pitch down – this creates “skidding” such that the aircraft wants to pitch towards its gear, requiring lots of up elevator input to force a right turn while banked right.

When banked to the left, your left rudder trim is being offset by the right fin and you are not experiencing the same amount of downward pitch, thus, the aircraft banks and turns to the left much better than to the right. Keep in mind also, THIS is EXACTLY what the Granvilles designed into this plane, as it was only intended to go fast and turn LEFT.

Granted, this is just my theory based upon what you have conveyed in your messages.

Again, IF I understand you correctly, it does seem as though you may have too much right thrust in your engine.

Also, you should know I too have experienced similar flight characteristics as you and the REALLY weird thing is that these characteristics became much worse with a smaller engine?!?!

When I flew my Gee Bee with a DA150 and 30x12 prop, it behaved noticeably better than it did with a DA100 and 28x10.
Although I achieved the proper balance with the smaller engine, I honestly felt the plane handled better with the larger engine set up and I cannot give you a technical explanation as to WHY?

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

Question: How are you achieving adequate cannister cooling?
I do not see much in the way of air entry or exit holes?

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

Dear Richard,

the engine is mount on 4 bolts which exactly the same lenght, here some photos:

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu24.jpg

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu25.jpg


What did I wrong?

The balance is ok? What do you think?

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu20.jpg


Today I was at the airport and did a second flight. The plane had a bad control. I dont know whats wrong with the plane. To balance the side rudder is a nightmare. Its not to trim, whatever it was right or left the Gee Bee didn´t fly ahead on one way / did a clean turn a corner.

And at landing a front wheel get stuck in a hole in the ground and spind. The fuselage broke at the tail :-(

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu21.jpg

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu22.jpg

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rcu23.jpg


In a week it will be fixed, but what should I chance at the balance? the right thrust of the engine?

There are no holes in the fuselage for the cannisters* But there ist no problem with the degrees in the fuselage*

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

Hannes,
Very sorry to see your Gee Bee suffered some damage, but no doubt you will have it repaired and flying again.

Probably the MOST experienced CompARF Gee Bee pilot on this thread - code name "DirtyDingus" - has said that uneven dihedral will cause MAJOR lateral stability problems. I cannot confirm or deny this, but he has MANY flights on his Gee Bee, so I would trust his judgement.

Also, the designer told me that not enough dihedral will also cause lateral instability.

OK - SO, check to make sure you have absolutely the exact same dihedral on both wings.
I know that increasing dihedral is a much more difficult proposition since your flying wires are already built to length. BUT, if possible, increase dihedral as well.

Your CG is fine - 7cm is actually quite conservative considering you can go back as far as 8cm.
7.5cm would be perfect, BUT this is NOT the cause of your Gee Bee's instability.

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

Thats one problem I have as well!, I over looked that very badly, The right wing had over 1 inch higher than left. Im sure that cuased me major issues.

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

I am curious if the use of the dummy radial and the amount of "through cowl" air could be disrupting the natural airflow around the fuse thus blocking the vertical fin/stabilizer from achieving yaw stability. It is known that the R1 was test flown with the "Bobtail" and after landing that was the first word out of Boardman's mouth is that it need more tail.

Dunno but might be worth a try to have a flight without the dummy radial on it..

Rick

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

Thanks guys for your postings**

Ok, the first step is to fix the fuselage.

Thanks for the tip with the uneven dihedral, I will check it soon. I hope it´s different, I have no idea what it could be else.

The CG ist good* Perfect* So I can let it be*

Whats with the radial dummi? Should I remove it? Is it useful? The engine mounting is ok?

The Gee Bee will be flown andfixed so mutch times, up it fly´s :-)

Sorry guys that I have so mutch questions!!

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

Be aware that your repairs will add weight so far back that you will need to check C,G, when complete.A few grams in the tail will have big effect up front.
This is a good time to make sure that motordome has only right thrust,I set mine up by holding against a wall and rotated"clocked it" with angle gauge against it to find true right thrust,then marked top.
Good luck with repairs,Danny

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

How mutch right thrust is good for the Gee Bee?

My 3W 106er is mount on 4x 5cm long pins, should I try more thrust?

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

The motordome is molded with the correct amount of right thrust.
Do not trust factory marks on dome to mount to fuse.
Find a way to use angle gauge and rotate dome until gauge shows only right thrust,no down or up thrust.
If all motor spacer pins are the same length,you will have correct right thrust.
I believe mine was 2 degrees.
Do you have the new assembly manual?It helps explain this better than I can.I downloaded and printed out mine from CARF website.
Hope this helps,Danny

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

Danny,
I wrote the new Gee Bee assembly manual.... what the heck did I say about right thrust??:D
I honestly don't remember[8D]

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

Richard ,here is the text;
"The dome must be aligned with the fuselage so that it is positioned with the built-in right thrust. NO down thrust is utilized.NO down thrust is needed on the Gee Bee. The engine centerline must be located slightly to the
left (as viewed from the tail) of the dome to compensate for the molded-in right thrust, such that
the engine prop driver lines up with the centerline of the aircraft. Engine spacing should result in the propeller back-plate positioned to provide at least 5mm of propeller clearance."
I do see how it difficult it can be to try to explain technical instructions, as I have written a few operator manuals for some specialized equipment that I have built on my job.
On top of that add the fact that English is not Hanne's primary language,I hope he can gather enough information to give him a fighting chance of success with his GeeBee.

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

Thanks for the refresher.
I will be writing the builder's manual for the upcoming CompARF P-47 as well and any positive or negative feedback on my Gee Bee manual is appreciated so that I can capitalize on my strengths and improve my weaknesses.
Yes, It is difficult to write technical instructions as one must assume the position of the builder(s) from every background.

The bottom line on the Gee Bee is that even when set up perfectly, it is a difficult to handle aircraft in almost all flight modes. If it were not, we would see many more of them flying (and lasting)[:o]

But it is like any other challenge - the greater the challenge the sweeter the success. Hey, if it were easy, it would be a Cub;)

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

Duringmy R2 will be fixed I have a question for the Gee Bee Experts**

Was there ever a Gee Bee Modell Z in Black an White Color with the number 5 on the fuselage like the plane in the movie "the rocketeer"?

Here the link what I mean:

www.youtube.com/watch

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

No. The "new, rebuilt" Gee Bee Z (#5) provided by Howard Hughes at the end of the Rocketeer was unique to that movie and not a scale reproduction of a paint scheme that ever existed.
The Gee Bee Z replica built for that movie was NOT exact scale and a real handfull to fly (look at the span of the horizontal stab...MUCH larger than the original).
George Miller, a friend of mine and member of our club, worked on the film. George provided the Hughes AutoGyro and Nazi Zeplin models and told me the stunt pilot hired to fly the Gee Bee Z for the movie said it was a real handfull/not at all fun to fly.

I had several opportunities to speak with Delmar Benjamin about his R2, and also about his impressions of the Eich and Kimball exact scale Gee Bee Z replica - Delmar test flew that aircraft. In his usual style, he had very little to say, but my impression was he was NOT at all impressed by the handling of the aircraft. I remember him wryly stating, "It flew like a Gee Bee Model Z..."

All that said, the Gee Bee flights in the Rocketeer are what INSPIRED my love of the Gee Bee racers - I think it did for many others as well (just as Top Gun was the Navy's best ever recruiting tool).

I have yet to hear anyone provide detailed flight impressions that compare the overall handling of the Gee Bee Z to the R2. It would be interested to know which aircraft is a better overall flyer.

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

I love the paint of the #5 * The Black and White is hot* It would look good an an R2 I think*

Have somebody some pictures from the movie or other pictures of the Gee Bee Z #5 ? I don´tfind some at the www :-(

2001 I saw Delmar at the Fiber Classics Airshow in Germany when the Gee Bee got damage on the runway* This Airshow and the Rocketeer Movie was the reason i felt in love with the Gee Bee Airplanes**

I stood a few meters next to the runway when Delmarwas starting theengineof the Gee Bee R2 and take off* I got goose bumps*

RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K
 

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rocketeer1.jpg

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rocketeer2.jpg

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rocketeer3.jpg

http://home.arcor.de/geebeer1/rocketeer4.jpg