jbflier

I am new to electrics, (but not r/c flying) and have an AXI 4130 motor with a Jeti 77 amp speed control. I am looking for an ARF conversion along the lines of a Funtana. Also, at some point batteries are going to be needed. I think I'm drifting toward the lithiums. This will be a winter project, so any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance.........

Greg Covey

John,

I've done several conversions with that power system. Look for a .40-size aerobatic or 3D plane to convert or a .60-size scale plane.

A 6s Lithium configuration is what you'll need. For the easiest assembly, my current preference is using two of the new [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/thunderpower.htm]TP420032[/link] ThunderPower 4200mAh packs wired in series.

jbflier

Thanks for the reply Greg; I was thinking along the lines of the Cermark E-3D Banchee, Hanger 9 Funtana 40, Sig Somethin Extra etc. (4-5lb range) I'm slowly learning about the lipo's pro's and con's. It seems to me that if you treat these batteries with respect, there really should be no harm, only benifits. After all we walk around every day with cell phones in our pockets and don't think twice about the lipo's in them. What chargers have you tried/preferred? I would like something simple, yet flexible as I haven't given up on gas/and NiMh batteries yet. If I have to though I will get something like a Schultze, Astro, or similar. Thanks again for any/all help in getting started. I simply enjoy flying, and see the eventual writing on the wall for existing flying fields in my area if I don't do something. Plus hauling around these 18-23lb airplanes/equipment/setup, etc is getting old........Regards, John

Greg Covey

John,

All those planes sound great! The Sig Somethin Extra would be more for pattern aerobatics than 3D flying. The others are capable of both and may have lighter wing loading.

My Lithium charger preference is for the higher-end Astro Flight Lipo 109 and the lower-end [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/chargers_lipoly.htm]Apache 2500[/link] Smart Charger for only $50.

jfetter

John,

I think the motor you're looking at (AXI 4130/16 or 4130/20) is too much motor for the size plane you're looking to convert. I myself starting with a Lexx pattern plane as my first electric and was very pleased with the performance. Once I realized the ease of converting a glow fuel into electric, I converted a Sig Rascal 40 and a World Models Tai Ji 40. In all instances I used a Jeti Phasor 45/3 with varying degrees of success. It turns out the motor isn't the biggest concern, but the BATTERY is! I always ran on GP3300 batteries (16 cells in all 3 models) and was only happy with the performance in the Lexx (which was both designed as an electric and weighed the least (105 ounces or 5 1/2 pounds). The Rascal flew well but felt a little heavy (6 3/4 pounds) while the Tai Ji was simply a dog (7 1/4 pounds). I went looking for a bigger motor thinking the Jeti simply couldn't handle the weight but on my way, decided to try going LiPo first. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!

I changed from the 16 cell NiHM to 2 Thunder Power 3S2P x 4200 (3 cells in series, 2 in parallel, the entire pack in series with another just like it) and suddenly the Tai Ji has 2500 FPM vertical! The performance is on par with replacing a 40 with a 60+ performance engine making the motor far less the deciding factor I thought it was. By changing to the LiPo's, I increased voltage and power while reducing the weight by a pound. Granted, the weight makes a difference in itself but the extra POWER behind the change allows phenomenal performance. Bench testing shows the combination drawing 62.8 Amps (1228 Watts) at full power turning a 12x6 E-prop, a staggering difference over the 43 Amps and 622 Watts when doing nothing other than going back to the 16 cell NiMH pack.

I am in the process of building a Thunder Tiger Rare Bear (F8F2, similar to the Hellcat) and am using the Axi 4130/16 as the power plant. I intend to turn a 16x10 E-prop and use the SAME 2 x 3S2P 4200 packs as with my current planes. This motor is appropriate for 7 - 13 pound models but I think it is too much motor (ie, too much un-needed weight for your 40-size conversion) when you could get away with a Jeti Phasor 45/3 and save 5 ounces (not to mention the motor mount which is heavier for the Axi).

Just my 2-cents, you'll LOVE e-flight!!!

Jack

[email protected]

My Feedback: (6)

As an obvious newbie to electric I have a quick question "hopefully". Just read that you should have a 6V regulator for your receiver when using Lithium Ion (Li-Ion) packs. I'm assuming these are not the same as Li poly or lithiums, correct? Here is what the site says:

"These cells do not loose any power after charging as other cells do. You never put them on trickle charge. A fully charged pack is approximately 8.4 volts and the servos will not take the higher current. You must use a Dedicated Charger and a 6V regulator for your Receiver. These packs can go to 7.4V before recharging."

I read this on the Super Battery's Packs web site, http://www.superbatterypacks.com/

I'm leaning towards the AXI 4130 and ThunderPower 4200mAh packs for my TF Corsair but not certain about the 16 or 20 version AXI. Also how best do you wire them in series. Is it a kit?

Thanks for your help.

Mike

jonnyjetprop

My Feedback: (3)

To wire the batteries in series, you can use a pcb style connector from FMA direct

https://www.fmadirect.com/site/fma.h...roducts&cat=28

or you can use sermos connectors. Sermos connectors can be hooked up in a chain to provide a series connection.

As for using a lipoly to power your receiver, if you use a dedicated battery for the receiver, you must use a regualtor. The IMAA set is basically using a 2s battery as a receiver pack. You can do this also, but you can also use any battery for your receiver, or use a ubec.

A ubec drops the motr battery current down so it can also power the receiver and servos. It is not limited by cell count like a bec is.

John

Matt Kirsch

My Feedback: (21)

Mike,

This would've been much better suited to its own thread. Please keep that in mind for the next time.

SuperBatteryPacks.com sells Lithium Ion packs specifically designed to replace conventional 4-5 cell NiCd/NiMH RECEIVER packs in airplanes, not main flight power packs. Since one Lithium cell isn't enough Voltage, and two is too much, they use two cells and a 6V regulator to get the proper voltage to the receiver. Again, this strictly has to do with the control system, not with what the plane's main propulsion runs on. These packs can be used on conventional glow planes, giant scale gas powered planes, and even larger electrics. You would not use a SuperBatteryPacks.com product to power an electric park flyer, for example.

You can use the BEC on your speed control for smaller planes, but larger electrics need a separate battery pack (like the SuperBatteryPacks.com solution), or a specialized BEC device called a UBEC.

On a TF Corsair, (the ".60 size" version right?) I'd recommend 7S or 8S LiPoly and the 4130/20 motor. You want to spin the largest prop that'll fit, and the /20 will turn a larger prop than a /16 on the same voltage. If you're talking about the giant scale version, fugeddaboudit. Too big and heavy for what you can squeeze out of a 4130/20.

luc-RCU

Well,
I just ordered the big great planes gee bee that I plan to use with a 4130/16 with 6S2P Irate 2200 and 15*10E prop.
I guess the full weight will be around 11 to 12 Lbs.....any comment? flyable?
Should I go to 7S?

FlyinTango

Dear Greg Covey,

I have converted a Hangar 9 Corsair to electric using the AXi 4130/16 motor, Castle Creations Phoenix 60 ESC and Tanic Pack 9800 mah 6s4p Li/Po batteries. It is ready to fly when the weather gets better here in Southeast Idaho. It was your Corsair Conversion that inspired me and I am quite happy with the way mine turned out, even though it weighs 10.5 lbs.

My question to you Greg, is regarding my new plane. I have a Duane Habets Air Tractor Crop Duster model that I was planning on converting to electric. The specs are as follows:

Wingspan.............92 in. x 11 in.
Wing Area............1012 sq. in.
Weight.................16 lbs.
Wing Loading........36.43 oz. per sq. ft.

This is an absolutely gorgeous plane. It has a fiberglass fuselage. The wings are balsa-covered foam with fiberglass on the outside for a smooth finish. The whole plane has been spray painted like a body shop, pin striped and clear coated. It is exactly scale to the real Air Tractor Crop Duster Model 502. I originally thought the plane would weigh around 13 lbs., so I planned on using the AXi 4130/16 motor like I did in the Corsair. My question is: Do you think I can still use the AXi 4130/16 now that I weighed the plane and it will end up being around 16 lbs.?

I weighed it at a Parcel Express store and it came to 15 lbs., 8 oz., including the simulated spray boom. However, it has no cockpit or cockpit floor in it and I figured by the time I put that in, plus something to strap the battery pack to, it will weigh at least 16 lbs.

So, have you had experience with the AXi 4130/16 motor in a 16 lb. airplane? I would still like to use my Tanic Pack 9800 mah, 6s4p battery pack. I am a Disabled Veteran, with not much money to burn, so I bought the big battery pack for the Corsair, thinking I could use it on my Air Tractor when I got it, thus having one battery pack for two planes. It seemed like a good idea, but now, I think I may have shot myself in the foot.

I have a Master Airscrew 16x10, 3-blade prop on my Corsair, pulling 54 amps with the 9800 mah, 6s4p Li/Po battery pack. I thought I could use the same prop on the Air Tractor, but it is heavier. Any advice you can give will be most greatly appreciated!!!

Yours Truly,

Tango

FlyinTango

Hey Greg,

One more thing. I forgot to mention that Duane Habets flies his with a 1.08 two stroke glow engine with a 14x7 prop. I thought I read somewhere that the AXi 4130/16 motor had about 25% more power than a Saito 1.00 four stroke. If that is true, I think I still should be able to make scale-like flights with the Air Tractor equipped with the AXi 4130/16. It is not an aerobatic plane. In fact, if the life sized Air Tractor goes inverted, it will crash, according to the Air Tractor dealer here in Rigby, Idaho.

I am real anxious to hear what you think about my project and to hear or read your advice!!! Thank you so much for all your help to those of us who need it!!!

Tango

Greg Covey

Tango,

It is a difficult question to answer with certainty. Your Corsair power system delivers about 900watts with your 16x10 3-blade prop. This is about 86 watts/lb. and you will find that it flys with authority at only 1/2 throttle.

A similar power system on your 16lb Duane Habets Air Tractor Crop Duster will be about 56watts/lb. While this is a bit low, it should take-off fine and fly non-aerobatic scale maneuvers.

The trade-off here will be between saving cost and being confident about the design choice. Assuming a Cub-like performance on the Duane Habets Air Tractor Crop Duster, it should work.

The alternatives will be costly. The AXI 5320 motor or 5330 motor would be a better choice but I cannot recommend using them with the Jeti 77-amp ESC due to conflicting specifications. The next choice for a compatible ESC is double the cost or around $380.

Regards.

luc-RCU

Flyintango
at 16 Lbs, I would forget about the 4130/16 except if you have a very low weight /sq in (cub like plane). I used it on the gee bee (12LBs) on 7S and I don't think it could do much more. Besides, at 50 to 60A, you would certainly damage the motor quite quickly.
I use the 4130/16 now on 6S for a 9Lbs plane: hangar 9 P51 miss america and at-6, all being perfect.
I would highly recommend a 5320 with higher cell count

Greg
can you elaborate on the compatibilty pbs between the jeti 77A and the 5320??

Greg Covey

luc,

All your planes mentioned are higher performance than the Air Tractor Crop Duster.

If you look at the voltage and current specs for either the [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless-axi5320.htm]AXI 5320/28[/link] or the [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/jetiblue.htm]Jeti 77-amp Opto[/link] ESC, you'll find that the voltage and current ratings do not equal the suggested power ratings. In other words, you cannot use both max. voltage and max. current at the same time.

The Jeti-77 ESC is limited to around 1700 watts before cutting out from thermal shutdown. While it may work fine on an AXI 5320/28 at 1500 watts, it should not be used with the larger 5330 motor.

FlyinTango

Hello Greg,

Thank you so much for your advice and input! I measured my prop clearance and found there is only 13 inches from the center of the nose / prop shaft area, to the ground. It is a tail dragger, so I guess that limits my prop size to about 20 inches, right? Plus, by the time I purchased the AXi 53 series motor, esc and a 10s Li/Po pack, I would be so far in debt, I would need binoculars just to see my bottom line at the bank. I think before I did that, I will just buy a Saito 1.50 or 1.80 and go with the glow engine. Whoa! I can't believe I wrote that on an AXi 4130/16 thread. Please forgive me guys.

I am tempted to just buy the AXi 4130/16 and try it in my Air Tractor and see what it does with the APC Electric 17x10 or 17x12 2-blade prop.

Greg, which do you think is better for the AXi 4130/16, the Phoenix 60 amp esc or the Jeti 77 Opto esc?

Thanks again!

Tango

Matt Kirsch

My Feedback: (21)

To measure real prop clearance, you need to block the rear of a taildragger up so the plane is sitting like it's in the middle of a take off run. That is, tail off the ground, prop shaft horizontal. Anything else, and you're just poking in the dark.

As far as the ESC goes, either one will do the job, and do it well, on 20 cells or a 6S LiPoly. The Jeti's advantage is that it can handle up to 32 cells. The Castle's advantage is that it's easily programmable, and built/serviced in the USA.

Greg Covey

I would heed Matt's advice on measuring the proper ground clearance of your tail dragger.

As for the CC Phoenix 60 ESC, I have no experience with it.

The new [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/jetiblue.htm]Jeti Advance PLUS[/link] ESCs are the easiest of any brand to program and they have built-in current limiting and thermal protection shutdown. These ESCs are difficult to destroy.

FlyinTango

Thanks for all the help Matt and Greg!

Does anyone know how much the amps drop at full throttle flying, compared to full throttle holding the plane still? In other words, if you get a 54 amps reading while holding the plane back in place, how much would the amps drop when the plane is flying through the air at full throttle, without the resistance of being held back?

Thanks for all the help guys!!!

Tango

luc-RCU

consider a good 10% less watts/amps in flight (full throttle, avg flight consumption is much lower).

FlyinTango

Thanks luc!

I have bad news. I went out to test thrust in my AXi 4130/16 with a fish scale attached to my Corsair. When I throttled up to full, there was a serious shrieking whine from the motor. I was only at full throttle, 54 amps for about 5 or 6 seconds, just long enough to read the 9 lbs. on the scale. I have never flown the motor, only tested it with a whattmeter and various props and drove it around the driveway a few times. The motor has never been hot, never smoked and never had a burnt smell to it. It seems like a grease failure on the bearings, but I am not sure. I just know I have to send it back to Model Motors.

Now, I have a motor that has a grinding, metal on metal feel and sound when I rotate it by hand. I am glad this happened on the ground, but I am sick that the motor has failed before it even flew. Anyone else have trouble with the AXi 4130/16 motor?

Guess it will be a while before I am convinced to put another one in the Corsair, let alone putting one in my Air Tractor.

Tango

A10FLYR

My Feedback: (1)

Don't panic!!!! The voltage drop is to much! You need more ma. You need to paralell packs or get higher rated lipos. Mine will do that when I "hammer" the throttle with low batteries.

StephenT

tango

sounds like a magnet is loose. If so, HL will replace the motor it has a 2 year warrenty.

luc-RCU

beware...
My own ewperience with these axi 4130 is that they don't like too many amps. I got one wire going loose (from inside) also, pushing the motor to 60A...
Now I use them around 35A and I don't have problems anymore.
I think they can accept 40 to 45A, no more if you want to keep them alive long enough...

FlyinTango

Hey Guys,

Just an update. My AXi 4130/16 did have the magnets come loose. I wrote Model Motors an e-mail and told them about it. They said to throw the old one away because they would be sending me a new one. They didn't even want to see my old motor. How about that for a warranty!!?? I got my new one in the Corsair and it works great!

Stephen T., you were dead on with your diagnosis! Thanks for your help.

altacom

My Feedback: (3)

I'm using the same motor in a Sportsman Aviation Corby Starlet, and with great results. The plane flies like a dream.

Plane weighs in at 7 Lbs even, and the motor with a APC 15/8 E prop delivers 6 lb 14 oz of thrust. I'm using a Duralite 4S-2P 5000 MAH pack and getting good long flights with enough power for two to 3 missed landings if needed. Plane flies most of the flight at half to 3/4 throttle depending on the manuevers. Just putting around, it stays pretty much at half or slightly less throttle. The added weight to some extent is the lighting package I put on it for more scale appearance.

I have AXI's on all my planes now, and am extremely pleased with the performance of the motors. They seem in general to give a lot more power for the weight of the motor/battery combination, and I generally come in weighing slightly less than the specified weight.