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FOX ENGINES

Old 06-16-2013, 11:43 PM
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koastrc
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Default FOX ENGINES

One time I was told a Fox engine was only good for a fishing weight. My experience with Fox engines, or motors Duke called them has been very good. Why? My club buddies call me the Fox/Super Tiger wizard. Perhaps that is a better name than some of the ones used to describe me. (I also have the title of club president) I like all engines. Have been lucky enough to have pretty good service out of all of them. I find the old Fox engines out last the newer "other brand" engines and I have often wondered why they have such a bad reputation. Fox engine have good power and after set up right they stay set up.
Maybe it would be a good time for us old nitro guys to revisit Fox engines. I have witnessed some real disappointments in recent moths with some of the engine that were considered very good. Even my Super Tigers are not what they once were. There is a lot of folks that say nitro is dying out. I think not. Made in the USA like nitro may just make a come back.
Old 06-17-2013, 02:45 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

It means you read the instructions. Welcome to the Fox Club.

Yes a lot of people had trouble with the engines as they didn't read the instructions on how to break in the engines or how to adjust the carburetors. Then people became impatient and wanted engines they didn't have to break in too. So some brands started making  engines for them that didn't need to be broke in, but unfortunately that typically led to a engine that wore out faster. The some brands came up with the classic marketing strategy of having engines become obsolete faster and being a throwaway engine as well, as if they don't stock parts for them then you can't reapir or rebuild it, so you throw it away and get a new one. Or you make it cost prohibitive to repair it.


Old 06-17-2013, 06:04 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

Earl, Do you have the default setting for the HS and LSN on the Fox .15 Bushing Schneurle? It has the old metered butterfly carb. I can't get the LSN set to save my life. I'm using Omega 10 % with extra castor added and a new Fox short plug.
Old 06-17-2013, 07:56 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

Back in the 60's Fox was one of the last to have a good workable carb. And when they did it was a very good one, but was adjusted completly differant from all others. And with a midrange adjustment had more to adjust. So many did not read the instructions and never could adjust the carb, so it got a bad rap. Also the very long break in period was too much for many people.

To top it off some of the distributers of some of the foriegn companies were saying some very bad things, I mean personal things about Duke Fox and Brodbeck, I mean real bad things that were not true.The things saidat contests and shows were nothing short of amazing. The mud slinging worked too.

And to top it off a certain engine article author, machinest, and designer often gave Fox poor grades. Though they may have been honest, after all Fox did take some shortcuts to be cost competitive with OS and others (OS and others were cheap at that time). But he was biased because he designed a popular engine at that time.
Old 06-17-2013, 08:46 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

I do agree with Sport Pilot on how I suspect that certain large hobby companies were trying to do away with Fox Manufacturing. Get rid of some competition so to speak. So it affectedFox a lot at the time. Now then Enya engines apparently had problems too, as you probably have noticed they are not importing them into the USA either. It used to be most all of the hobby shops had Enya engines for sale in them, but the major importers don't bring them into the USA anymore either. Enyas are like Fox engines in that they do not wear out fast and are excellent running engines too. But I don't know what happened to Enya to drop out of sight either.


Now I do remember one day a couple of months ago, where I went to the flying field with four airplanes. Well the first three all had engine problems. So I broke out the last one and it worked fine, yes you guessed it, it was a Fox engine. A old beat up raggedy Fox .45 all encrusted with castor oil varnish too. Anyway I flew the heck out of it that day.

Old 06-17-2013, 09:04 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES


ORIGINAL: controlliner

Earl, Do you have the default setting for the HS and LSN on the Fox .15 Bushing Schneurle? It has the old metered butterfly carb. I can't get the LSN set to save my life. I'm using Omega 10 % with extra castor added and a new Fox short plug.
I don't remember at this time. But I'll see if I can find the information for you.
Old 06-17-2013, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

I dunno. My Mark IV, VI and VII Combat Specials ran pretty well, I thought. Well, the VII did until it ate a circlip, and the VI did until I had a midair and the shaft bent a little. (We had to sand it down, chucked in a drill, to get it to work again.) Then again, I wasn't one of those running 40% nitro and complaining about breaking shafts and whatnot. (And then Henry came along with his .36 and blew everything else away.. well, the Mark VII was about as fast, but there weren't many made..) You used to be able to get a new Mark IV mail order for $40, but to get it into form you had to break it in, run it a season, get it chromed, etc. And if you wanted a real fast one, you got the crank EDM'ed out (or bought a high-zoot crank from Brasher), or got a ABC piston/liner from Doc Passen, got a titanium prop screw and used 40-50% nitro. I didn't, way too expensive for me. One plug a run, more or less, is what I remember, that on Missile Mist.

For a while, the .15 Schnuerle was the engine of choice in the US for FAI, but you needed a special head, special props and 50% nitro to get them to run fast. Duke even made a special version with a Mark IV crank in it (with a rear bearing but no front bearing) just for the US team. Their weak point was the venturi flange - it would often break off the case in a crash. A couple of engines I bought off another flier had bolts mounted in the exhaust flange, adjusted to butt up against the venturi to prevent just this from happening. They became obsolete with the fuel rule, the muffler rule and the venturi rule. So did the Nelson .15, which was a lot faster than anything else out there, including the current F2D engines.

Idle? We don't need no steenking idle...

Iskandar
Old 06-17-2013, 05:45 PM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

ORIGINAL: controlliner

Earl, Do you have the default setting for the HS and LSN on the Fox .15 Bushing Schneurle? It has the old metered butterfly carb. I can't get the LSN set to save my life. I'm using Omega 10 % with extra castor added and a new Fox short plug.
Ok for the Fox 15 Schnuerle engines carb settings.

Close the throttle, and adjust the idle stop screw on top of the carb so that there is a hairline opening in the intake.
Then screw in the idle mixture needle until it just stops and unscrew it one turn.
Then screw in the high speed needle until it just stops and unscrew it three and one half turns.
After that just make adjustments that let the engine run, try not to fine tune anything until the engine has about one and one half hours of run time on it.


Old 06-17-2013, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

My newest fox engine .25 is not good engine it vibrating very badly high revs, leak fuel from front bearing, cant hold needle settings, itry many different fuels, synt, castor, low nitro, no nitro, high nitro.
Os .25fx is 100% better engine.
Old 06-17-2013, 10:59 PM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

ORIGINAL: s�rpet

My newest fox engine .25 is not good engine it vibrating very badly high revs, leak fuel from front bearing, cant hold needle settings, itry many different fuels, synt, castor, low nitro, no nitro, high nitro.
Os .25fx is 100% better engine.


New engines shake more than engines that have been ran for a while. Balance your prop and run the right size (9x4 to a 10x4).

All glow two-stroke engines must leak some fuel from the front bearing, otherwise the crankshaft would seize. Yes, it can be a bit sloppy, especially if your engine has a bushing instead of a ball bearing supporting the crankshaft.

New Engines aren't broken-in, as we say in America. Once enough rich running time has been accumulated, the engine will loosen up and cool down a bit from previously runs. Cooling down means that the engine isn't as tight as it was before - which is good. Hot engines do not hold needle settings well, which is why it is best to run a few tanks through the engine on the bench.

Fox engines need A LOT of the fuel's oil to be of the castor oil kind. Your engine will run much better and will last a lot longer if you run 20 to 25% castor total oil. Follow the instructions and you will have a great engine. Your Fox .25, if it is the ball bearing version, will eat the OS .25FX alive once it is broken-in and the right fuel is being used. Sorry, but that is the truth.


Ed Cregger

Old 06-18-2013, 03:01 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

Fox engines do leak fuel from the front end, that is normal. That is how they lubricate the front bearing and help keep it from overheating. Actually all engines used to do this too. But over time several engine companies put in shielded or sealed front bearings to cater to people who wanted more clean running engines. Unfortunately the sealed bearings leads into more bearing failures though. Now then Fox did try and test a number of sealed bearings but none of the bearings really held up well or had a long life, so they never adopted them.

Now if you have the older bushed crankshaft engine without ball bearings, they will ooze quite a bit of oil out of the front of the engine. That is normal for bushed bearing engines. K&B did put in some spiral grooves on their Sportster series of engines to stop much of the oil fron going out the front of the engine, but it tends to cause a lot of wear on the bushing right there at the front though.

Now with a new engine it isn't running as smooth as it could as you are running it more rich at first so it runs more roughly then. So yes it will vibrate more. The engine should smooth out considerably after an hour of running it in. Fox engines usually don't start running good until after about a hour or so or run time has been done. Now then some engines may need a longer breakein time period than other engines.Some Fox engines may be a little too tightly fitted together, these can be more difficult as it takes a longer time to break them in.

My old Enya 1.20R engine almost destroyed my engine test stand as it vibrated and ran so roughly on me. But it did the same thing when new and I first ran it then too. But it smoothed out a lot as I eventually leaned it out more and got it running more smoothly as it broke in.


Old 06-18-2013, 04:55 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES


ORIGINAL: s�rpet

My newest fox engine .25 is not good engine it vibrating very badly high revs, leak fuel from front bearing, cant hold needle settings, itry many different fuels, synt, castor, low nitro, no nitro, high nitro.
Os .25fx is 100% better engine.

This is exactly how iron piston engines behave when not broken in. Takes a loooong time to break in. Probably over an hour of run time or 4 to 5 tanks of fuel. The vibration is the natural vibration of a heaver iron piston, plus the friction of a tight piston liner fit. It won't hold needle settings till broken in. Not sure about leaking from the front bearing, all engines leak some or at times, but possibly some back pressure. I think it could be a poor fit between crank and case, but others can better help you with that as I do not know what clearance it should have.
Old 06-19-2013, 07:41 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

Iron piston engines just plain vibrate more, because the pistons weigh more. That's all there is to it. After running ABC/AAC engines for a while it always surprises me how much my old iron piston Fox Stunt vibrates. Haven't run my Mark IVs in a while, either, maybe I should build something period-appropriate (maybe a Mongoose) just for them. The Mark VI and VII (still in pieces in a bag) are ABC motors.

Not all iron piston engines took a long time to break in. Fox Stunts did, the old OS baffle piston engines did. The likes of the Mark IV didn't - you ran them rich on the ground for a couple of bladders worth, pinching the fuel tubing now and then to let them lean out and rev briefly, then broke them in in the air with a slightly rich needle setting. After a half dozen runs or so they were good to go. Unlike the baffle piston engines, at no time would they refuse to run unless blubbering rich, even new out of the box. They'd last a season before they needed chroming, after which they'd last several seasons before yet another chroming. I think they learned to taper the bore and piston, like ABC motors, though they never were set up tight at the top like ABCs were. The old baffle piston motors had straight bores.

Iskandar
Old 06-19-2013, 10:20 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

I have a Fox 40 engine, forget which model it is ball bearing equipped anyway. I found it to be a strong running engine. I made the mistake several years agoof leaning it out to much on the ground. After the plane was airbornethe engine quit. Turned outtheconnecting rod broke. I sent it back to Fox and they fixed it for free. Service doesn't get any better than that.
Old 06-20-2013, 09:12 PM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

ORIGINAL: NM2K

ORIGINAL: s�rpet

My newest fox engine .25 is not good engine it vibrating very badly high revs, leak fuel from front bearing, cant hold needle settings, itry many different fuels, synt, castor, low nitro, no nitro, high nitro.
Os .25fx is 100% better engine.


New engines shake more than engines that have been ran for a while. Balance your prop and run the right size (9x4 to a 10x4).

All glow two-stroke engines must leak some fuel from the front bearing, otherwise the crankshaft would seize. Yes, it can be a bit sloppy, especially if your engine has a bushing instead of a ball bearing supporting the crankshaft.

New Engines aren't broken-in, as we say in America. Once enough rich running time has been accumulated, the engine will loosen up and cool down a bit from previously runs. Cooling down means that the engine isn't as tight as it was before - which is good. Hot engines do not hold needle settings well, which is why it is best to run a few tanks through the engine on the bench.

Fox engines need A LOT of the fuel's oil to be of the castor oil kind. Your engine will run much better and will last a lot longer if you run 20 to 25% castor total oil. Follow the instructions and you will have a great engine. Your Fox .25, if it is the ball bearing version, will eat the OS .25FX alive once it is broken-in and the right fuel is being used. Sorry, but that is the truth.


Ed Cregger


bull****.
best what ballbearing fox can make was apc 9x4 15030rpm and jxf 9x5 13800-14100rpm
1.5l fuel used breaking in engine and 15 flight.
iuse engines 1:12 aces combat planes
my best os fx engine run with apc 9x4 almost 16000rpm and jxf 9x5 14600rpm and they are very smooth.
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:49 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

An OS turning 146,000rpm has to be worth a million dollars!

Old 06-27-2013, 07:30 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES


ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

An OS turning 146,000rpm has to be worth a million dollars!

Not if it requires a 0.5 inch prop to do it...

Iskandar
Old 06-27-2013, 07:40 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES


ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

An OS turning 146,000rpm has to be worth a million dollars!


Read his again, I think he said "14600 rpm"
Old 06-27-2013, 07:50 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES


ORIGINAL: spaceworm


ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

An OS turning 146,000rpm has to be worth a million dollars!


Read his again, I think he said "14600 rpm"
Yes, after he edited it.
Old 06-27-2013, 08:17 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

I still have two early model Fox .15 Schnuerlehighbacks's flying in a couple of planes today. Both engines are early versions with a bushed crankshaft, and the early little muffler setup on them. Both engines run quite good still. Granted I am sure there are more powerful and faster .15's out there, but you would be hard pressed to get one that idled as good as these two do or have such a good throttle response too. I think my little HB .15 and a Enya .15 I have worked about this good as well.

A little Sportster plane with a Fox .15 RC. It is actually overpowered with the .15 engine on it, it can do all of the aerobatics at 1/2 throttle. But it does fly nicely and the engine works great and had a great idle too.


Then there is my Fox .15 powered Combat plane. It flies well too.. The club here stages some .15 glow and also F22 electric combat events from time to time. Usually they do it more on Tuesdays though, I miss a lot as I have to work then.






Old 06-27-2013, 10:13 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

I was never much of a Fox fan, we flew goodyear and couldn't afford the Rossi's or Supertiger .15's and used the Fox with the slant plug, and they would be slow and wear out.(lean runs on high nitro)  Had to get the Supertigers anyway.  The stunt .35's we had to use for the slow goodyear, I bought a few, then they changed the rules to the LA .25. They are faster and smaller.  Now I am stuck with a bunch of slower 1950's slugs that I can't use for anything.  (mufflers don't fit on all of them)  I picked up a .15 BB and put it on a Sig Wonder because it needed noseweight, and I do like it.  It revs up like all the others with the turbo plug head I made up, and idles nice.  There is still hope for Fox I guess, they just need some new designs.
Old 06-27-2013, 10:45 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES



As far as I am concerned is that Fox makes perfectly good sport engines. They ceded the racing and competition engine business to other companies. It would be terribly difficult to compete with Jett or other companies like that.  The Fox .35X combat engines was their last foray into competition types of engines.  But if people want a competition engine for racing or speed or something, they probably ought to look for a different brand engine then, say from Jett for example. Of course with the 2.5cc engine market there are several all out competition engines, such as  Cyclon, Fora, Parra for  example. It is hard to compete with them.


Old 06-27-2013, 11:26 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

Are you sure you were using Stunt .35's on Goodyear? No throttle as that is supposed to be for control line. They are still popular for stunt, at least for those who like to fly stunt but don't really compete and prefer not to spend as much on the more expensive larger stunt planes. So you should be able to sell your Fox's. You won't get that much for them unless really old or one of the odd varients that were not around very long.

These engines are made for torque spinning a 10-6 at around 10 to 11K and with a 4-2-4 break right out of the box. Easy to start and reliable. The only real problems is that they vibrate a bit, and the stock needle will break off on a profile on the first inverted landing or hard landing (aka crash).

As far as new designs, the designs are far superior to most. The only designs they need are for larger engines.
Old 06-27-2013, 11:44 AM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

For Goodyear racing they use some sort of a fuel shutoff device on the plane so they can make the pitstops. In many areas they have evolved into just using diesel engines now for it though as the glow engines weren't as reliable with glow plugs burning out on you in a race. But a lot of local clubs have specialized rules that allow for most any 2.5cc engine to be used, and otherclubs may be more restrictive. One of the Australian Clubs was allowing for just about any 2.5cc engine to be used in their profile Goodyear class for racing.

I think it was the Bendix class of Goodyear racing where someone could use a .35 engine or thereabouts. The Vintage B class was the other one that used .35's or 5cc engines. A more modernClass 2 version exists or existed that used 5cc engines too.


Old 06-27-2013, 02:08 PM
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Default RE: FOX ENGINES

It used to be .15 size 100 laps on pavement.  I think there was an A class with BB motors and shutoffs, and a plain bearing class.  That was a while ago, 1970's.  Then the was the Fox .35 class that was run on grass with a builtup wing usually, Then they changed the motor to a .25 LA. 10% nitro.  They are a little faster, maybe they don't start as good after a hot run, they definately don't shake as much. They are running July 6 or 7 in Dresden Ont. Canada. 70 laps, 140 lap final.....

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