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Evolution Alpha 40 Glow Engine Observations

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Evolution Alpha 40 Glow Engine Observations

Old 01-20-2024, 03:26 AM
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Default Evolution Alpha 40 Glow Engine Observations

Hello all,

I like many others have been having some fun and games with a Hangar 9 Alpha Trainer with the Evo Alpha Engine (The One With the Greek "Alpha" on the Head). I've seen a wide selection of both positive and negative remarks generally related to Tune/ Running issues. I myself since acquiring a low use Plane and Engine about a Month ago have experienced most of the Negative as regard Tuning and getting the Engine running reliably. Fortunately I have a Club mate of over 60 Years experience flying Glow who I have been able to to work through my Engines Issues with. To this end I attach notes from Test Running today which may be of use to others experiencing Evo 40 Alpha Blues. Engine to date has been Test Benched only, we are progressing to Flight Testing next when the field drys out here in Sunshine Coast QLD Australia.

In a Nutshell, The Evo40Alpha (Greek Alpha on Head) I think its actually a 0.46ci ? is a tricky motor to Tune according to my experienced Tuner Club mate. The Stock Carb has imprecise fuel metering at at lower throttle openings resulting in many of the problems others on this site have experienced;

i.e Poor response form idle, stalling on throttle opening, inconsistent running etc etc etc.

Positives we established today Using the Following Test Parameters;

OS #8 Plug (New, Have been using #3 with limited success)
80/20 Castor Methanol (No Nitro)
11*6 APC Prop

PRO'Sfile:///home/russellw/Documents/Radio%20Control/Engines%20IC/Evolution46Glow/Test%20Notes/Sat20thJan2024GP:RWTestBench.doc


* Reliably Hand Started over Several Hours of Stop Start running (22 Oz Fuel Used).
*Achieved acceptable Transitions across entire Throttle Range form idle to WOT. See attached Notes.
* Engine operating sufficiently reliably to progress to in Air frame setup and Flight Testing.
* Pulls strongly at WOT after Transition.

CON'S

*Fuel Metering via Stock Carb at Low Throttle Setting is very imprecise. This manifests in a variety of behaviors described as faults. i.e. Engine has a tendency to "Load up" with fuel after extended idling. Throttle requires Steady opening to allow it to clear out excess in the case. Once clear response was quite acceptable. Slamming open the throttle will bog it down if not drown the plug.
*The above imprecision can mislead Tuner to over lean the idle screw at low throttle settings resulting in a lean condition stall at sudden throttle openings.
* Given the above We have tuned the Engine erring on the Rich Side, Throttle operation needs to be measured and extended idles allowed for.

A quick solution would be a quality Carb Transplant in Our opinion. The basic Motor is sound, Fuel metering is the issue. Seeking to fully understand the issue We will see how it performs in the Air, obviously I'll be keeping it on a Tight Leash as well plenty of altitude in the bank.

Trusting this is of assistance to some body, Regards,

RW

Last edited by Russell Willis; 01-20-2024 at 03:30 AM. Reason: Trying to attach a file Sat20thJan2024GP:RWTestBench.doc?
Old 01-20-2024, 07:56 PM
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according to this video your engine is a 40. but the kit could have neem upgraded to a 46.
a lot of engines are copies of OS. my first question would be, "how tight are the threads on your High Speed Needel ??". if they are loose and the Needle wobbles a bit try a Needle from a different brand to see if it fits tighter. people have used OS Needels in engines like Magnum, ASP and others. if it is an OS copy an OS Carb just may be a drop-in fit??
Jim

Old 01-20-2024, 10:38 PM
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Default Thanks Jim

Replacing the Stock Remote Needle with an OS 46 LX Remote Needle assembly has already been done. Actually the Stock Needle was unusually Tight in the Stock needle body making High Speed Tune difficult. Couldn't find and o ring to suit so I've used Silicone Fuel tubing as a Field fix.Main Needle is quite snug in its assembly.The reason I'm persevering is that I'm a New Glow Flyer and keen to learn as much as I can about this part of the Sport. The Spray Bar and Idle Needle assembly are stock. The more I think of it the least of this Motors problems are the high speed needle, it's the poor low/mid range adjustment that causes grief! ;-) I'm keeping the replacement Carb option open but We'll see how it performs Aerially First.

Last edited by Russell Willis; 01-20-2024 at 11:58 PM.
Old 01-21-2024, 04:12 AM
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Make sure you’re not getting Nucleation bubbles between the carb and remote needle. Making sure the prop blades and hub are balanced perfectly helps this quite a bit. In some cases, the remote needle needs to be mounted somewhere else and not the engine itself.

I would tell you a Suoer Tigre carb would be a really nice upgrade for that engine.
Old 01-21-2024, 12:33 PM
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Thanks 1QwkSport2.5r, fuel lines are clear of Bubbles. That was an initial problem (tank issue).

RW
Old 01-21-2024, 08:40 PM
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So I've been playing with glow motors for over 65 years, and I've learned a little about them. A friend had one of these Alpha motors, and asked me for help. I never could get it to run correctly! I concluded that the carburetor was likely the problem. All my help was at the flying field, so all my work was done with the engine in the airplane. I would liked to have gotten the engine on a test stand, but what I would have preferred would have been to try another carburetor. I think a later version of the Evolution 40/46 carb, or a OS or a Thunder Tiger would confirm that Alpha carb is the problem. This experience was about 20 years ago, but at the time I remember comparing my findings with others who had similar conclusions. I think my friend sold the airplane/engine combination.
Old 01-22-2024, 02:35 AM
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Thanks for the Interest Greg, I intend to Flight Test "As Is" adn see if it becomes a reliable Flyer. If not Carb Transplant on the Cards.

RW
Old 01-23-2024, 08:47 PM
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OS #8 Plug (New, Have been using #3 with limited success)
Russell.
what brand plug was the #3 you used?
I ask because OS and Enya, both made a #3.
the OS was Badged as "A3". now re-badged and called #6. the OS A3 was rather hotter than the Enya 3.
Note the OS Pic I posted, copy for referencing.

have you Tach your peak RPM? if-so please inform what it was.




Old 01-23-2024, 10:20 PM
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G'Day Wasp,

#3 was an OS Plug New, I think poor result was due to my inexperience, Tank/ Air leaks. After getting the plumbing airtight good running was achieved on OS #8. It's Summer here so I'll go with the #8 for initial flight Tests. # 3 if warranted (Winter?). Experienced Mentor here flys OS #8's on No Nitro so I'll follow their guidance. Thanks for the Charts I'll keep a Copy. Have a Tacho coming I'll Post next Run Details. Once again I think these Evo Motors are "Diamonds in the Rough".

Regards,

RW
Old 01-24-2024, 08:04 PM
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good going.
Old 01-26-2024, 01:28 PM
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Hi!
The engine is probably made by the same company in China that makes ASP/Kyosho engines. I have run several of these engines over the last 25 years and all have run very good on 80/20 fuel and OS 8 or Enya 3 glow plugs and 10x6 as well as 11x6 and 12x4 props. I have used these engines in Q-500 pylon racing airplanes (10x6 props) and the performance of all these engines have been better than both OS .40 FX and all other sport .40 engines and therefore I suspect that the engine you have would perform as good as my engines.
If you look at the You Tube video that "The wasp"gave a link to you see how good it performs.
The engine has a chromed brass cylinder liner and aluminium piston and I think the engine is equipped with one or two 0,1mm head shims that you could remove if running on just 80/20 fuel. I have done this on some of my engines ,but they all run just as perfect as they are. Should you run 10% nitro or more (which is not at all necessary) I would at least keep one 0,1mm head shim.
As you probably know it is very important how you mount the fuel tank and that you do not use a too big tank!
The prefered tank size is 8 oz (240cc) in a sport /trainer type airplane using a .40 engine. 10 oz tanks could be used but the larger you go the more problems with needle setting you get.
Smaller tanks is of course no problem, I use 6oz (150cc) tanks in my Q-500 racers.
Tank placement is vital! The tank should be placed as close to the engine as possible and the center of the tank should be in line with the carb orifice when the plane sits horizontal.
Plane below is an original Q-500 racer I built 30 years ago (and still have) with a Webra .40 GT engine. Prop is a 10x6 Graupner G-Sonic witch is a good prop for our rules of Q-500 racing here in Sweden.
For a Trainer type of airplane a 11x6 or 12x4 prop would be better.

Soo...I do not think there is anything wrong with the carb...you have to learn to set it right! See the video from "the Wasp"!

Kyosho .40 engine

Kyosho .40 cylinder and piston.

Kyosho .40 engine parts


Last edited by jaka54; 01-26-2024 at 01:40 PM.
Old 01-27-2024, 12:16 PM
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Default Thanks Jaka54 & Wasp

Dear Jaka & Wasp,

Test ran twice yesterday (see attached log). I'm treating this as a New Motor and essentially "running in". The RPM reading is conservative given it is a "just 2 stroking" rich setting. I'm happy it starts easily from cold and starter only required if hot. I'll post more reports as I get to Air Test the Engine. Unfortunately I managed to connect my Hand with the Prop (Totally my fault, I didn't have the stand properly tied down and recieved some nasty lacerations to my Left Hand. Fortunately Flesh Wounds only). Jaka thanks for the interesting info, tank location in Plane is approx 5 Cm below Spray Bar (Alpha40 Trainer) with No easy fix. I ran Yesterday with Tank positioned deliberatly low and Engine pulled Fuel AOK. I am fully aware of tank positioning and when building design accordingly. Unfortunately many ARF's don't.

Running IC is another discipline in the Hobby I've wanted to pursue and I'm getting there, I'm following this ABC run in procedure;

1. Get Engine running and up to Operating Temp with WOT quickly at a Rich "Just 2 Stroking" Main Needle.
2. Occasionally lean out to Max RPM then richer to 4 Stroking setting momentarily.
3. Lean out again to Rich "Just 2 Stroking" as per Point 1.

During run I experimented with throttle response, blipping throttle from WOT saw crisp response. If allowed to extended idle Engine tends to fuel up. This requires a measured appliation of throttle which sees it clear pulling strongly as excess crankcase fuel clears. I have a very experienced Tuner who has helped Me with the Mid Range Idle Needle and whilst the above indicates Rich leaning out the Idle Needle further takes us into too lean territory with stall on throttle up. It would seem to us that the adjustment range is very narrow, we've decided to go with slightly rich and throttle the Engine accordingly. It will also be interesting to see how it goes in the air where extended idling will not occur. I am not a cut to idle and glide in Pilot so hopefully slightly rich low spped will not be an issue.

Regards,

RW
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
Evolution40AlphaRunLog.pdf (25.4 KB, 39 views)

Last edited by Russell Willis; 01-27-2024 at 12:47 PM.
Old 01-28-2024, 07:30 AM
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Are you sure it stalls when throttling up because of running too lean? I would turn the idle screw in some more and see what is happening. All these carbs have a fairly broad idle adjustment so I do not think yours are any different then all my 10 ASP .40 engines.
But you say you have the tank mounted 5cm under the orifice in the carb...That is not ideal. Why not mount the engine on it´s side so you have the tank more correct!?

Old 01-28-2024, 09:39 PM
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Pardon Jaka,

5 Cm was a Gross overestimate more in the vicinity of 2..3 Cm below Spray Bar Level. Unfortunately the Air frame does not permit modification to level out the Tank. As I mentioned I've Bench run simulating Tank position and Motor Drew Fuel quite OK. Next steps will be in Plane Test Flights. I'll be flying very Conservatively until Engine reliability is established.

RW
Old 01-29-2024, 03:27 PM
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let's talk about something people don't talk about much,,, "compression".

note in the pic above. it shows 2 Head Shims come stock in this engine.

rule of thumb, is,
the more Nitro you use the Lower your compression needs to be.
the less Nitro you use the Higher your compression can be. to a point.

note that the OS Hyper 50sx can run happily all day on 30% Nitro. this engine comes stock with a .010" thick Head Shim. (many people, maybe even most people use an OS#8 and Enya #3 plug).
today many good engines come stock with a .010" thick shim.

but in the pic your engine has 2 shims.

and because you burn Zero% nitro I just have to wonder if your Alpha will run better and tune better if 1 of its Shims are removed.

if after more testing you would like to test by removing a Shim, please remove the thinnest shim first.

if sometime you decide to remove one, be very careful. they bend super easy. maybe even buy a new one before doing so.



Last edited by the Wasp; 01-29-2024 at 03:31 PM.
Old 01-29-2024, 05:28 PM
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Thanks for the Tip Wasp I'll keep it in mind.

RW
Old 02-21-2024, 01:04 AM
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Default Flight Testing Evo Alpha 40 Glow

G'Day All,

Finally have got around to updating my Flight testing of this Engine. To date I have done 3 Flight Sessions of roughly 3..4 Flights per Session. Citeria as follows;

* Air frame Hangar 9 Alpha Trainer
* Prop 11*6 APC
* 80/20 Methanol Castor. No Nitro.
* Average Flight Duration 6 Minutes
* Ambient Temps 29..36 Celsius, Humidity say 60..80%
* No Tacho Reading as I'm trying to find One that works and is worth having.
* Steady7 Circuit Flying with some Basic Aerobatics (Loops, Rolls, Immelmans, Split S).
* Muffler Extension 10mm ID Allot Tube, 80 mm Length

Maidened the Aircraft approx 3 Weeks ago, Straight Forward Start up 2nd 3rd Flick. Engine after clearing Idle induced Fuel Up pulled Strongly into climb out. After Trimming tried basic Aerobatics, very pleased with Air frame as Minimal Trimming was needed especially Rudder in Loops. Generally kept it Conservative and Varying Throttle was answered with crisp response. Landing saw Idle a bit High and Go Around required. I generally Land at 25% Throttle and experienced some "Fuel Up" on Go Around but Engine pulled through Richness transitioning to Strong WOT. After Landing trimmed Throttle down.

Subsequent Flight saw Cruising around at varying Throttle settings WOT to 25%, an extended low speed run saw a Dead stick when opening Throttle. Landed without issue ( deliberately staying Close and High whilst Testing. Muffler came loose and Gasket blew out possibly causing Dead stick. My Mentor also suggested reducing Muffler Extension to Q Approx 6..7 mm (to increase Tank Pressure). Ground Run saw improved Throttle response.

Last Test Flight approx 1 Week ago saw Engine Start 1st or 2ng Flick, I left needles at last good settings Crisp response. Some "Fuel Up at idle evident but Taxiing to take off point saw this cleared and Engine came on Pipe quickly when starting take off run. Flying off a sodden long grass field Aircraft needed a little " haulling up" but once airborne crisp Throttle response. Conducted long 11 minute flight with several low approaches and go around (25% to WOT). Noticed some Fuel up but measured application of WOT saw Engine clear pulling strong and consistently to WOT (Lotsa Smoke). Performed series of Multiple Loops WOT to Closed, no indication of Dead stick or Fueling Up. Prior to takeoff did a Vertical Test at WOT no change in Engine Tune.

I think I can lean out the Main & the Idle a bit more but I'll do so in Concert with my mentor (V Experienced Glow Flyer). SO far so Good. Pity I cant figure out how to attach pictures, this forum is hard!

RW

Last edited by Russell Willis; 02-21-2024 at 01:47 AM. Reason: Trying to add picture.
Old 02-21-2024, 08:03 PM
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I think I can lean out the Main & the Idle a bit more but
the High-End needle feeds the Idle needle. so, if you lean the high needle the low-end needle will lean out a bit too. so only tune the high-end needle first. let idle a minuet or 2. then test how it takes full throttle.

note that your engine may run differently at different fuel tank levels! so just keep that in mind if you have problems.

something that may help your engine; is just to run a few tanks of fuel thew it on the ground.

Last edited by the Wasp; 02-21-2024 at 08:07 PM.
Old 02-23-2024, 11:47 AM
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Thanks Wasp,

I am aware of both Needles affecting each other, I did some extensive Fligfht Testing Thursday. I'm confident I have the Engine at a reliable Sport Flying Setting, I've found it takes extreme & persistent High G Aerobatics to provoke a Dead stick (Multiple Cubans, Looping, Extended Vertical Climbs). I am keeping Flight Logs and will Post when Moderators allow Me to do so (apparently You have to have 10 Posts to upload stuff).

Flew 2 Tanks of Fuel through & a couple of Dead sticks I believe due to Low tank Level (I'm still getting familiar with Flight Duration and the like. Have experimented from OS#8 to OS A3 plugs. Engine seems to rev our harder (Top End) on A3 in the air, #8 reliable but Engine doesn't sound as strong in the air. I'll continue Flight Testing Today as well as Practicing for My Gold Wings Exam. Sunday I'll consult with Mentor and get 2nd Opinion on Plugs/ Tuning.

Regards to all,

RW

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