EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

You should TRY a type F in your four strokes, maybe then you would know WHY people say it is better than the Fox Miracle.
Agree about plug life and running lean, though. I don't go through many plugs at all in my four strokes.

fancman

My Feedback: (16)

Tiger,
Can you honestily say that you need every single RPM you engine will produce? I doubt seriously that more than a handfull of modelers can tell the difference a couple hundred rpm makes in their engines. From what I've observed over the years (18) most modelers are lucky to know how to properly tune an engine let alone be worried over a couple hundred rpm either way. What's the point? Most models are seriously overpowered and have pilots that are underskilled and lacking in engine knowledge in the first place.

As I've said before. What those of us that have extensive experience and knowledge of engines use makes no difference. Anyone who reads this forum can decide if they want to spend $3.50 a plug or $7.00 a plug. Why are you trying so hard to defend your choice in using the $7.00 plug. I don't care what you use.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Uh, no, no, and no.
You know what? Since you have never TRIED an OS plug, you really don't know what you are talking about, do you?
It's not about top end, either. It's about idle and transition, and nine times out of ten, a four stroke will idle lower and better with the Type F, which is why people use them and rave about them. MANY times, when a four stroke will not run right, simply installing the correct plug will cure it.
Like Bill R. said, I have never seen a four stroke that did not run well on this plug.
This has nothing to do with your vaunted skill and experience...it happens to be that the engine will run right with the right plug, no more, no less. All of your "extensive experience and knowledge of engines use makes no difference"...if you have the wrong fuel or plug. Period.
Keep using your $3 miracle plug, if your mind is that closed, you don't need to know if there is something better.

fancman

My Feedback: (16)

Thanks for loosing your temper. I have no problemwith transition or idle with the plug I use. Like I said. You use what you want and so will I. Sorry I didn't know you were an expert. I just love it when you so called experts get pissy with anyone who doubts your opinion or goes against what you believe.

fancman

My Feedback: (16)

Hey everybody. Forget what I've said here. Everyone go out to your field box, throw away every glow plug that you have for your four cycle engines and run down and get some good ole OS F plugs because EASYTIGER has deemed that's what we all should use if we have a brain at all. Thank you EASYTIGER. Life will be so much easier under your guidence. None of us has to make a decision about anything anymore. Your wisdom is all we need.

Oh, would someone tell all the other plug manufacturers that it's futile to continue to make their inferior plugs. We won't be needing their services anymore. EASYTIGER has shown us the light and the way.

All praise EASYTIGER!!!

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

fancman:

Sorry, but I must disagree, and defend ET.

All he has done is state the facts as laid out by you. If you have never used the OS "F" plug you simply are not qualified to comment on it.

You are qualified to say you're happy with the Fox "Miracle" plug. No more.

And your two responses to ET pointing out your obvious lack of qualification were childish, not up to the level of your prior posts at all.

Bill.

fancman

My Feedback: (16)

I'm happy with the plug I use and meerly point out the fact that wheather or not I use an OS plug has no bearing. He states that it's the best plug period and wheather or not that is true has no bearing on anything. Anyone who flat out says that one product in this idustry is hands down better than anything else is kidding himself. State your opinion and don't attack anyone for not sharing it is what I say. I suppose if anyone here has a strong opinion on a particular type of fuel we could generate the same type argument. There is no one right product for everyone, period. I am no the one throwing stones here. He is the one who says I don't know what I'm talking about. It's not supposed to be personal but I can go there if provoked.

Sport_Pilot

Sheesh. I can understand brand loyalty for expensive items to a point. One hates to admit you could have saved a few bucks buying something that costs less but works just as good. But glow plugs?

Nothing wrong with trying a few plugs out. Getting the right one will save a lot of fuel. The other ones will be used on another engine, or when I cannot find my favorite fuel, or even a spare when I am out of the right plug. Using a hot plug on a high compression engine or high nitro wastes power and fuel.

Now I have tried just about every plug except maybe the McCoy 4C, the main difference is the heat. In general a hot plug will outlast a cold plug because of the thicker element. Want a plug that is hotter than an OS-F and doesn't cost $8? Try a ThunderBolt, the latest plug I have tried. The Fox Miracle plug is slightly colder than an OS-F but not by much. It lasts about as long when used with the right nitro. The main quality difference I see is that the Fox has a lower quality plating, it will rust if left out in the rain.

Sport_Pilot

PS,

I don't know how well the ThuderBolt will last, though I suspect it will last a bit less then either the OS or Fox as the element appears to be a bit smaller. Course heat range on just one plug could also be off, I have found slight differances in heat from one to another with both Fox and OS. I would rathere have a dozen plugs of differant brands than a full card of any brand.

RaceCity

Huh?

Hot plugs have a THINNER element. They did the last time I checked anyway.

I can't believe the appetite for plugs around here! My oldest OS .70 (15 years) has had a grand total of TWO (2) plugs since new. TWO....

The first of course an OS "F"...the last being an Fox Miracle plug installed sometime maybe 9-10 years ago.

Then again...I'm not enamored by 30% nitro. My engines run fine on 10%. Always have. And they hand start...first flip. Michigan winter..NH winter...NC summer humidity...it still works good.

?????????

'race

Wulf

My Feedback: (5)

Fox element is a platinum, rohdium combination.Rohdium being a rare and expensive element also.I use this plug in my Saito .72 ,1.20 Os.26 and they work fine.$3.49 apiece ,great value. I might add ,you can use them in your 2 strokes too.

DarZeelon

OS F plugs, No.8 plugs and other brand name plugs are so expensive, because the average American R/C modeler is willing to pay...

Not too many years ago, many brand name plugs were cheap.
I have a 1982 MAN magazine where AHC in NY, NY advertises 10 for $6.95.

The amount of precious metals in a glow plug element is less than one milligram, 0.000035274 ounce. Platinum is about $700 an ounce. That would make the precious metal cost per plug 2.4 cents....

Platinum Iridium and Rhodium prices haven't skyrocketed.
But since OS realized that without a plug, an engine cannot run, it priced the glow plug like a "must have" item. They are "holding us by the b*@@s", so to speak.

The price of engines did not rise significantly since 20 years ago.
Most modern engines are better and more reliable than those of 20 years back.
But now we are paying $5-$8 for this two-bit item, so these engines can run.

coomarlin

My Feedback: (1)

LOL

I've thought that for a long time too. Although I am a fan of the 'F' plug for 4 strokes.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

" All he has done is state the facts as laid out by you. If you have never used the OS "F" plug you simply are not qualified to comment on it.

You are qualified to say you're happy with the Fox "Miracle" plug. No more. "

That about sums THAT up.
It's like..."My old Jemco Corsair is better than your new Top Flite one...I have not built or flown the Top Flite one, but since I have a hundred flights on my Jemco one, I know what I am talking about...."
Anyway...moving on...

I have several packs of those old AHC plugs. He sold them in little hand-stapled packs. Not sure who actually made them. They are pretty useless plugs, they burn out very fast, and have a lousy idle. I'm sure that there are a FEW engines what will run fine on them, but after a few dead sticks, I stopped trying, and they are in my big drawer full of glow plugs now, doing nothing. They were not "name brand" plugs, they were cheapies.

O.S. "Drones?" Please. All my four strokes right now are Saitos. And one Laser. I have had a few OS four bangers, liked the saitos better. Most of my two stroke glows are OS, though. Mostly the older ones. I think the FX and LA ones were a misstep, but the old FP and Max ones have never let me down.
I also swear by the 91VRDF. If you have ever had the pleasure of multiple dead sticks with a Rossi or OPS, usually ending up with a big pile of crashed jet debris, you would understand that OS makes a great product.
Anyway...it's not mindless droning...it's wanting to fly and not crash.
Nowadays, there are a LOT of nice engines out there, but for the most part, if you pick an OS, you are going to get good service.

Wulf

My Feedback: (5)

Fox Miracle plugs @ Sheldon for $ 2.89 EA. and I have used the OS type" F"plug I just prefer the Fox plug ,3 for the price of one makes it very acceptable.

donkey doctor

Hello; I used to think the Enya 3 plugs were pretty good too until I bought a whole card of them (16$ each) and tyhey started burning out after just one flight. I have used 3's in the past and had good luck with them, but that whole card was garbage. I used it in various sized Saitos, I usually only get two flights before it starts to fail. Huge dissappointment, huge expense.

The OS Fplug is my plug of choice, it works in
Enyas, os's, saitos. and even Lasers. I have got over a year out of one on Saitos, and surpass'. I hate to lend one out, cuz I know I'll likely get a KB plug back in return. by the way they cost $11 each here, not a lot for what they do

Homebrewer

My Feedback: (8)

In my experience the OS F is worth every penny, not due to its great performance but due to its incredible longevity.

I don't know what I must be doing wrong with the Enya #3 and Fox Miracle plug but neither of these plugs last me longer than a weekend of flying. The Enya #3 has same performance as as the OS F but doesn't seem to be as hardy. The Fox Miracle Plug is no miracle, its equal in rpm to an OS 3 plug-no powerhouse in a 4 stroke-but seems to blow out every other run.

Am I running my engines too lean? Nope, 300-400 rpm shy of max lean rpm on 20/20 fuel.

I needed a hot plug for an RC car because I was using non-RC fuel that was low in nitro and full of oil. The Enya 3 lasted several tanks and the OS F plug that is in the .16 engine is going strong after a year and 3 gallons of airplane fuel.

Luckily, I was able to buy a ton of OS F, 8, 3 plugs at 1/2 off at a hobby store that was closing shop.

RCDevote

After reading this thread for a week or so I went and bought a couple of "F's"....solved a poor running 91 Surpass issue immediately.
Yup, sometimes you just get what you pay for.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Bingo. First thing I ask if somebody is having trouble with a four stroke is: What plug?
I have an ASP 80 that I could NOT get running right on the enya 3 plug. Neither could the original owner, he sold it to me for a song. Actually a very decent engine on the Type F.

Sport_Pilot

I have had bad luck with plugs lately also, not just Enya's and Fox's but a couple of OS-F's. Maybe someone roughing up shipments of glow plugs somewhere? I have seen times when it seems every plug goes just one run, then they last years. Could be a bad run of Enya plugs? I see some differances in heat from plug to plug from time to time also, can't say I have seen this so much with OS, but the last couple of Miracle plugs seemed a bit colder than last time, but this is on a differant engine so it could just be me.

RCDevote

In my not so humble opinion if you have a engine that is eating plugs like jellybeans regardless of the brands, then you certainly have other issues with your engine, primarily a lean condition.
The F plug I used solved my crappy inconsistent run issues, right dam now.
When a engine is burning through plugs it has always been my experience that there is an air leak of some kind, some where in on or about your engine.
That or your just running it too lean.

And back to the "F" issue. I've heard that the F's were great for years, I was just to dam cheap to step up and pay the price.
That's because my LHS was over $8.00 as I remember, but I could be wrong.
As it is I paid just over $12.00 for the two I got, and I was whining about that until I fired up the 91 Surpass and it ran like a Swiss watch....tictictictic s-l-o-w i-d-l-e and no change with the glow heat removed.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Could be lean running or something else...were all these plugs being eaten by the same engine? Same fuel, maybe?

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Sporty:

ET just made a good point. The fuel.

If you have slight water contamination, not enough to keep the engine from running, the water can still blow the plugs.

Try fresh fuel.

Bill.

Sport_Pilot

The first one had been sitting in my box for over a year and I don't really know how much time was on it. The second one just went. Wasn't a lean run but the engine was still breaking in. I usually use a cheaper plug for break in but I had done the initial break in. I was looking for the right plug for the inverted engine. I replaced it with another OS F and it seemed hotter but not by much. I ended up with a Thuderbolt. It will simply idle longer with it. See my thread about getting an inverted engine to idle.

My last TT 91 ran best with the OS F with 10% nitro but the Fox plug was as good on 15% the K&B was best on 25%. I only used the K&B on maybe one or two gallons of fuel, but it was still good at the end. I went to 25% mostly for a fun fly contest. It sure climbed with the 25% fuel! Got 10,600 revs with an APC 14-6 prop. Of course it was 10,300 richend up for flight, but I think it picked up a bit in a steep climb, won the climb and glide part. Got 0 for the Limbo contest cause I hit the pole and wrecked the plane. But I got first place in the entire contest!

RCDevote

As engines break-in allot of minuscule metal goes and sticks to the element of the plug, ergo reducing it's effectiveness significantly. The cheaper plugs won't last very long during break-in. I usually look for about a gallon to be broken in well.