NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

ST's .71 R/C engine was sold with a two plug head.

Folks forget that European engines from that era were designed to run on FAI Fuel (no nitro). Keeping the idle and transition reliable was helped considerably by using two glow plugs. Merco did the same thing with some of their engines. I remember a friend's Merco .61 with two glowplugs. Another friend had a Ueda .55 that might have had two glow plugs too. The head was anodized green. Not a bad engine for its day. The Ueda was Japanese, right at the end of their "junk" reputation era. There was nothing junky about the Ueda.

I'll have to give my pre Blue Head G60 .60 a look to see if it has a baffle. I don't think so, but I'll check just to be sure. It looks just like a G60 Bluehead, but with a smaller venturi carb, just like the other gentleman mentioned. It is not the small crankcase ST 60 that the control line stunt flyers liked so much. That was a really light sixty sized engine, but it was not a powerhouse, even for its day.

Ed Cregger

ABKieger

Hi, I have one of these old g60's that was on an old Astro Hog I bought from a guy years ago. The engine never ran well so has been oiled and sitting around. It would leak (spray)oil from the front of the crank. Well, I took it apart and the bearings are not sealed so I assume the crank is worn? So, I can find the bearings somewhere I quess but what about a crank? The back of the crank has the number 1492 on it. Any idea where to find something like this? Is this engine worth rebuilding? Is it worth anything as is for parts? Also, how do you get all that old burnt on oil off without trashing the blue head(the blue is still pretty dark)? I tried a knife but that scratches off the blue(yep, stopped that quickly) oops
Thanks in advance
Bill

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Remove the back plate and soak the engine a couple days in an old crock pot filled with regular Prestone type antifreeze.

The bearings may not be bad? Are they rough feeling? They never did have seals on some of them.

You can order the bearings from Boca Bearings online.

The ring can be from a new current Super Tiger or you can buy one from Frank Bowman.

Enjoy,

Jim

ABKieger

Hi, what about the oil coming from the front of the engine? Is there a fix to that?
Bill

smedsky

ABKieger,
Unless it's really spuing, it's probably fine. Fire it up and let the fun begin.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

The old engines did not use seals of any kind on the bearings. They relied upon the fit between the crankcase and the crankshaft to prevent fuel spraying out of the front of the engine. In fact, the cranks were ground with a spiral groove in them to act as a pump to return migrating oil to the main crankcase area.

The only way to restore the seal to original specification is to restore the fit between the crankcase and the crankshaft. Most of the time, unless the engine has been crashed and bent, replacing the front crankcase half of a G60 will stop the oil spraying out of the front.

Finding parts is hit or miss. eBay can be a source of parts, though not always reliable. Most folks don't know what they have when they have it, but if you buy it cheap enough, it really doesn't matter if a few engines for parts are inaccurately described.

I guess one could try substituting a modern "sealed" bearing in place of the unsealed original bearings. I can't see where it would hurt anything.

Ed Cregger

RHarding

My Feedback: (3)

Ed,

I'm just getting around to this thread, and I am really enjoying it. Have three Blue Head ST 60's that I used in pattern in the 70's. Bought all three new. All three have a baffled piston with a groove in the head. Ed, ST did offer a baffled piston in the Blue Head. I have an old Kaos kit that I think I will build for one of mine. Question. I tore down one of mine last week end for a good cleaning. The brass band around the rear of the crankshaft came off. It has a seperation that allowed it to expand after I removed the shaft from the front casing. I haven't looked inside one of these in over 30 years, but I was thinking the brass band was a press fit. What you think?

Thanks,
Richard

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

If the brass band has a broken place, it's never going to stay on.

RHarding

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks for the fast reply. Was the brass band a press fit? Do you know of anyone who I can send it to for repair or replacement?

Thanks
Richard

speedster 1919

My Feedback: (3)

CCRC1 By the looks of your carb nipple pointed down so much your mid range might be way off. If the engine is sound now I just fly the heck out of it and worry about parts and repair later. That looks like the bushed engine and if loose not worth rebuild.

speedster 1919

My Feedback: (3)

I like these posts. Don't get me wrong, I'm no ST 60 expert. I thought ST stamped PDP on side of mounts if it was PDP. I have also seen STS stamped on mounts too. The question is are all the cases the same for such a different porting design. I have just 1 G60 . You know what is called for. Pause OS has a history of engines , so I think Super Tigre needs a photo history page too. Are you guys with me??????????? Funny I just rebilt a S90 and to find parts was strange. Turns out the piston pin is the current G75 size and not the G90.

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

Speedster, the carb in the photo had just been cleaned and the parts hadn't been locked back into place. I did not intend to run the carb with the intake in that position. I don't know if you realized it or not, but that picture and this thread is a year old
I have restored that engine some time ago to like new condition and it runs like a tornado!

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Forgive me if I responded to this post previously.

Yes, the brass band is a press fit. It is there to act as a "crankcase stuffer". This eliminates some volume, which boosts pumping efficiency.

The crossflow Blueheads are specialty engines, not mainstream. When the Bluehead first became popular, you never heard of any of them having a baffled piston. Most were sold as ringed engines, ringed ABC and ABC engines - none with a baffled piston.

Some folks used to complain that it wasn't fair to compare a G60 Bluehead to other engines of the period because of the fact that they did not use a piston baffle and were, therefore, more closely related to schneurle ported engines. They sure cost like they were schneurle ported engines back then.

Model Airplane News and World Engines, in conjunction, used to advertise the dickens out of this engine and always mentioned that it used a more advanced, baffleless piston, design. I'll bet that the vast majority of G60 Bluehead engines were made with flat pistons. That was their claim to fame. Their fame did not last all that long, though, because the true schneurle ported engines of Webra, HP and OS began to reign supreme in pattern flying. HP was first, but didn't catch on that well for a few years.

Sport_Pilot

Ed, the first ones were baffled and only baffled. The first PDP's were baffled as well. Not till the late 70's did the unbaffled STS versions come out. Magazines usually advertised them as ST Bluehead, PDP version, and ABC version. The ABC was ringed ABC with STS porting. As far as I know only the STS had no baffle, and did not idle as well. Maybe later PDP versions were unbaffled, but I never saw one.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

-----------------


Nope. Don't confuse the nomenclature of Bluehead with G60. Earlier G60's were not the same as the Bluehead. Blueheads were baffleless. We can agree to disagree on this one. I ain't budging because I know better. <G>

Sport_Pilot

The first Blueheads indeed had baffles! They came out in the early 70s with baffles! I think someone named Miller won with one the AMA Masters around 73. Even in the late 70's I know that they had baffled PDP versions. Pretty sure they still had the plain baffled one's till around 79. They may have dropped the blue head or the name by then, but the first Blue Head ST's had a baffle. In fact, at least at first, the G60 was the Blue Head, the V model was not.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Rhett Miller's Blueheads were just like mine, baffleless.

Norm Page won an early seventies AMA Nats using the Mach 1, which was later kitted by Midwest, while using a baffleless G60 Bluehead. One of my friends owned a hobbyshop back then and he ordered one because of Page's victory using one. I had the opportunity to disassemble it to inspect for swarf. No baffle. None of the ones I have ever seen have had a baffled piston. In fact, I have the predecessor to the Bluehead and it too lacks a piston baffle.

I misremember things all of the time, but I'm sure I'm right on this one. As I said, we can agree to disagree. No harm done.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

It just occurred to me what might be going on.

If you look in some of the AMA Nats pattern breakdown/results charts, you will see the G60 Bluehead is listed as being a crossflow/loop scavenged engine. Truly, it is not schneurle ported, but it does not have a piston baffle. It was one of those weird engines that ST brought out before utilizing TST porting.

I wonder if this is what is causing all of the confusion?

cessna098

Gentlemen,
Maybe this will help clear up the question of were there any SUPERTIGRE Blueheads that came with a baffled piston. I have enclosed pictures of an engine I bought new and still have. The first picture is of the box which identifies it as a "G.60 B.H. Perry". The second picture is the receipt from Mutchler's Hobbies dated January 8, 1980. The third and fourth picture are right and left side views. The fifth picture shows the baffle on the piston. Its a bit hard to get a good flash shot inside the cylinder but I guarantee you that piston has a baffle (it definitely is not a flat top piston. Hope this helps.
DennisV

Kweasel

My Feedback: (29)

I have collected several Blue Heads from early types with throttle coupled exhaust baffle plates to ones made in 1980. Every single one is different as far as porting arrangements. None of the ABC versions that I have are equipped with baffled pistons. One is a very early straight crossflow ABC with no piston baffle. The rest are TST or have PDP slots. There was a later one with an iron liner, ringed and baffled piston, with PDP slots, this one was the easiest handling and best idling Blue heads I've ever ran. I also have ran some Como .40s with this same arrangement and they also handled very well, almost as well as the best modern engines.

speedster 1919

My Feedback: (3)

I saw a SUPER TIGRE ad that stated they still offer the CLASSIC G60 BLUE HEAD in 1988. Tower if you read this , WE NEED A SUPER TIGRE HISTOTICAL PAGE added to the super tigre web site..

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I have never seen a Perry ported G60, so, to me, they don't count. I'm talking about the ordinary, run-of-the-mill G60 Bluehead. The one they advertised in the early seventies and the one they probably sold the most of, the baffleless piston version.

I'm just saying what my experiences were. I went to a lot of pattern contests. No one ever mentioned a G60 having a baffle. It was a given that it was a flat top piston.

I feel as though I'm on that TV show that had the kids and the fat guy jumping from one world to another through a dimensional portal. How did I end up here? <G>

Please bear in mind that I am NOT calling anyone a liar. I'm just saying that my experience does not line up with theirs.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Please understand that I am not saying that your engine(s) do not exist, nor that they were not made.

I am suggesting that the vast majority of G60 Blueheads, and especially the ones popular in pattern, were baffleless.

I kind of remember where the baffleless piston engines were ruled as not complying with the rules for a specialty event. Either Super Tigre (which looks most likely), or perhaps originally a third party provider, made baffled pistons and heads available for those wishing to participate in these events. To me, I was aware of the baffled piston engines, but did not think that they were commonly sold. I know that they were not the mainstay of the pattern flyers along the Mid Atlantic. Anywhere else I cannot say.

I hope we can get to the bottom of this question. I have a feeling that there is some interesting history here.

I am not calling anyone a liar, or even mistaken. I do not know everything. But neither does anyone else. <G>

Kweasel

My Feedback: (29)

In the final years of production most of the Blue Heads had Perry slots and were designated so on the box and in magazine adds. The engine in the picture above is a later model. The last variation I could find from 1981 had the exhaust port casting filled in and was designated as an "BH Perry ABC-ring", and had no baffle. By this time they had been surpassed by newer designs and rear exhaust. Blue Heads disappeared from adds after 1982.

speedster 1919

My Feedback: (3)

ABK ROBAIR HOBBIES in Canada has alot of old ST parts. You might give him a call.