Im new to modeling and recently purchased an alpha 40 trainer with the evolution trainer power system. The plane flew about 10 times and all but 4 of the flights ended in deadsticks. Decided there was an obstruction somewhere in the fuel system. Back flushed eveything, no luck. decided to take apart the remote needle valve assembly and was unhappy to find 7 small pieces of aluminum underneath the inlet fuel nipple. Removed them, one more flight and another dead stick. Then another club member noticed it sounded "weird" as compared to his evo 46. Discovered the bearings were shot with pleanty of movement in them. HORIZON SENT ME A NEW ENGINE WITHIN 5 DAYS, HORIZON HAS BEEN EXCELLENT AS FAR AS CUSTOMER SUPPORT AND I THANK THEM!! just got the replacement engine and gave it a good inspection. Decided to put thread locker on the long muffler bolt and when i ran my finger through the muffler insides it came out sparkling with aluminum dust. Cleaned that all out and then decided i had to check in the needle valve assembly again. This time 9 small half moon shaped pieces of aluminum were found just below the threads in the exact same spot as last time. Seems that the threads are being cut and that the removed metal is staying in this tiny aluminum casting. HORIZON HAS A GREAT ENGINE HERE BUT THEY NEED TO DO SOME CHECKING ON THE CLEANING THAT IS GOING ON AT THE ENGINES FACTORY. Other than these bits of metal found, the engine ran great, two flips and was running smoothly. It hasnt been in the air yet because the ups man just delivered it yesterday. I URGE EVOLUTION ENGINE OWNERS TO DISSASEMBLE THIS NEEDLE VALVE ASSEMBY AND MAKE SURE IT IS CLEAN. even if you dont HORIZON HAS BEEN GREAT WITH WARRANTY CLAIMS FOR ME but better be safe than sorry. Also many people in my club really like these engines and only one has had similiar problems and again horizon took care of it promptly. I have just written a letter to horizon with the same information but i do not know where to send it, i dont want it simply overlooked by some employee, any suggestions? sorry for the long post but i hope this prevents others from having the same problem, and again THANKS HORIZON FOR BEING SO KIND AND PROMPT WITH SENDING ME A NEW ENGINE!!! cya, Dave

This is just simply amazing. I was going to buy one of these engines but it looked so cheap I decided not to buy one. I'm glad you had the guts to post this find on RCU so others will be informed .

That debris might have come from the metal lines in the fuel tank. A fuel
filter could have saved that head ache.

FBD.

i learned with the alpha and both of these engines have performed will within their monetary limit(great engines) its just like every workplace, its just a employee problem that will probley soon be taken care of.
mechanicaly these are solid engines. jmo!

hasstyle,

Thanks for taking the time to post this. While I don't own one, it's great to get the word out to everyone.

Best of luck.

Thanks for the reply's. Anyone else have similiar problems? And dont get me wrong i still love these engines and so do many people at my club and these pieces of metal were found before the engine ever even saw a plane, so im sure they did not come from the tank. Im sure its just a guy at the factory getting sloppy once in a while, and i hope they get things straightened out. Cya, Dave

Well, it may void the warrenty:

I never start any new engine before I completely disassemble it and check it out. I take the carb completely apart too. Everything. Crank comes out, bearings come out of the case and get flushed with a solvent--then lubed with after run oil just prior to re-assembly. Case gets inspected and occasionally I'll run a pice of sandpaper or a file inside to remove a piece of slag. Piston, rod, and liner come out and get inspected. Carb gets stripped--yes- even the fuel nipple and the needles.

I can usually find 1 thing or sometimes 2 things wrong inside an engine. It only takes about an hour to take it apart--inspect--clean--and re-assemble. Worth the time IMO.

I realize that some guys don't have the know-how to disassemble an engine and reassemble it. But--you can always find a guy at the club who will help. These little glow engines aren't that complicated. But, they are a precision piece of equipment--with very close tolerances inside--and a tiny bit of metal in the wrong place can wreck one in a hurry.

Flyboy Dave Wrote

"That debris might have come from the metal lines in the fuel tank. A fuel
filter could have saved that head ache."

__________________________________________________ ___________________

I doubt it. In more than 30 years playing with these things I have NEVER seen anything like this in a fuel tank, fuel lines, or filter. Once in a while a little crud but no metal.

I've heard of metal down in the crankcases of new engines. It also happens in full scale turbine engines too. There were incidents in Allison 300 series a few years back, and it was traced to a single employee making a mistake.

I have 2 Evolution engines.

OK....Hank doesn't think those rounded pieces of metal could have possibly
come from those round pieces of tubing that have been "cut" and are in the
line directly behind the remote needle valve....so I guess that settles that.

FBD.

Just to clear some things up. The metal was removed before the engine ever even came in contact with my plane or tank. And most importantly i actually had to "spin" the metal out through the threads in the aluminum casting with a toothpick, they were clearly left behind by the tool that cut the threads for the nipples to screw in. Several of them were loose in the bottom of the casting and a few were still barely attached to the last threads. seems to me that the tap that went into the aluminum casting was not run down all the way to the bottom, therefore leaving the last few bits still attached. Anyway, i hope to get this engine in the air tomorrow if the weather permits, Cya, Dave

An easy check I was taught was to remove backplate cover and look in the engine. I have found metal crud in almost every brand of engine. DOC Holliday

NO PROBLEM!! From here on out I will keep my opinions to myself, Mr. Moderator.

OK, here's the deal Hank...It's fine and wonderful to offer an opinion, but you
don't have to be argumentative to do it. When you quote someone directly
and then say "I doubt it"....that isn't really needed. Then following it up with
...."I have NEVER seen anything like that"....is negative as well.

You don't have to call someone out, and disagree with there post to make
your point, or offer your opinion.

Do you think my post...."That debris might have come from the metal lines
in the fuel tank."....was a fair statement ? How about...."A fuel
filter could have saved that head ache."....Is that not true ?

Notice I said "might have come from", and "could have saved".... I didn't sign
it in blood, or carve it in stone, now did I ?

So the moral of the story is....you don't have to be "testy" or call someone out
to make a point or offer an opinion....especially when you purposely call out a
Moderator, and "doubt" was he says has merit.

I hope you will continue to enjoy RCU.

Flyboy Dave.

I agree an 'inspection' of a new engine is best. In some cases however, a full blown dismantle will void a warranty.
Don't ask me how I know this!


Tom

It looks to me like the EVO series is being mearketed to suit the newcomer, who probably has no business going inside a brand new engine! It is a pretty safe bet that the rear cover and glow plug can be removed to do a flushing. A poor mans' sonic cleaner can be made from a coffee can duct taped to an upside down orbital sander. I have immersed engines in nothing fancier than soapy water, turned on the contraption and let a bench vise hold it for a couple of hours. You might be amazed by what you find. Blow the remaining water out, oil it up and spin the engine with your electric starter. You can accomplish 90% of the breakin like this without ever firing up the engine. Keep spinning and oiling till the exhaust residue is fairly clear.
BTW, FBD is a pretty nice guy when he hasn't been drinking.

I have a Evo .45 trainer engine and it is the best engine that I've had. I got it on a second hand trainer. I didn't know about crankcase loading, etc, and I just flew the snot out of the engine. It never burped, stumbled, or hesitated. Of course, I knew next to nothing about needle valves. The only time it did quit was twice after I had run it into some high weeds. I found a lot of debris from the carb when I flushed it. Some big stuff floating around in the cup after flushing. After that, back to more of the same kind of running. I have to say that the engine appears to be the only 100% reliable engine I"ve seen, excepting the trash in the high speed needle valve incident. The Xtra Easy 2 that it is on is kinda big and heavy, but when I took the flywheel weight off, and added an APC 11x7 prop, it was a fine flying trainer. The engine will pull the plane almost straight up after a 5-6 foot roll.

If you get a good one, you won't want to part with it.

FBD... look at the pic... how big a fuel lines do you run into your tank...?

What is your point Rudeboy ? Do you not think the debris could have passed
through a medium fuel line ?

Given the information in post #1....where did you think the debris came from....

....outer space ? Maybe I missed it....did you offer this Member any help, or an
opinion, on what the problem might be....or are you too just out to criticize ?

My point is that you told the guy that this could have come from the metal lines in his tank, while these are clearly chips from a tap. I do not think he tapped his fuel lines. The biggest chip in the picture is about 1/8" long... so yes, I think you'd have a hard time passing that though a fuel line.

The advise I would give this member has already been given. Why should I repeat it? But for you peace of mind, here it goes: always disassemble, inspect and clean your new engines.

I am not just out to criticize you. I just expressed my opinion, like you did. Although I didn't quite spell it out, I thought that was clear from the post I made.
If I offended you in any way, I apologise.

I think this is exactly what you wanted to do, just point out somebody is wrong instead of offering a solution or some kind of educated guess. I read this post after FB posted and didn't agree but knew to stay in my place because hopefully one day when he is answering one of my post he would be right . I am willing to bet he is right 80% of the time to my 40% . So understand he is here to help you and not to point you in the wrong direction.

Do we have to argue? Fact of the matter is they did not come from the fuel line or anywhere else on the plane since the 2nd engine was dissasembled before it was ever even in the same room as a plane or fuel tank. Several of the pieces were even still atached to the aluminum they came from. Im afarid this post is becoming useless now, my only objective in posting it was to warn future and existing evolution engine owners and now the post is full of complaining and anger [] anyway i ask again, anyone else have similiar problems with these engines? just curious, Thanks, and cya, Dave

Well, the truth of the matter is that this problem is not unique to EVO engines, I will bet the same thing has happened to just about every kind and type of engine that has ever been made in large quantity. You might have been unlucky enough to get an engine that flew past the parts washer guy as he sneezed. Some brands might be more prone to this sort of thing than others. You can wash the individual parts all you want, but once everything has been assembled and sloughed off thread material is forced out of where it was hiding, how many manufacturers should be expected to break the engine down to reinspect everything and assemble the engine a second time? That's why many guys advocate that it is up to the end user to do the final inspection and cleaning.

I'm new to rc flying... i seem to have had several problems with my evo 46NT that i bought...

my first problem was that the tubing between the needle valve and the carb was rotted away or torn up or watever, i didnt have the experience to check something like that so i got fuel everywhere... it was a simple fix, just replace it, but for a newbie, almost any kind of problem is frustrating.

My next problem was (and is, actually) that it seems to be very difficult to start. I don't have an electric starter so i flip it over with a rubber hose. when it's cold, (as in not warmed up) it takes anywhere from 3 to 10 minutes to start!! It may be my technique... how do you guys start it without an electric turner (or whatever u call it) ? but even when its hot, it seldom starts right up on the first flip.

My third problem... after the first time i ran it, the gasket broke! the gentleman at the LHS told me to use high-temp silicone instead of the gasket because he had none in stock and the silicone would work just as well, if not better. So i used that.

now heres a problem that i've had for every time i ran it... gunk. I dont know if this is normal or not, but theres this gunk that is sprayed almost everywhere on my plane, especially on the right side (the muffler side). I ran the motor on a concrete patio, and you can see the drops of this gunk on the concrete. I dont know what it is... maybe leaking fuel? unburnt fuel coming out of the exhaust? maybe im running it way too rich. because the motor smokes a little too... I seem to be unable to get rid of this smoke!! If i richen the motor, it just smokes more, if i lean it out, the motor dies after about half throttle, but it still smokes a little. I don't have a tachometer so i cant tell you what rpm's this happens at.

Oh, and 1 more thing, I think this is normal but i just want to be sure... the rmps fluctuates when I run it above 1/2 throttle... it goes up and down noticeably, and it fluctuates more the higher the throttle.

Whew, that was a long thing. I think i just confused most of you, but in order to clear it up a little i'll just try to answer some questions you might have for me... i have 5% sport fuel, brand of XP fuels. The plane is a PT-40 from Great Planes. The LHS is a 40-min drive so its much more convenient for me to go here (rcu) than to the LHS, but i will eventually of course, just to get them to do a final check and help me at my first flight.
umm... i have ran it basically 3 times... the first time i had no idea what i was doing so it probly ran for only 2 minutes before i gave up. the 2nd time was when i noticed the gunk and the broken gasket. the 3rd time was when i decided that the smoking and the gunk was a problem and thats when i came here to write this.
I do have fuel filters... one on the intake for my hand fuel pump, one on the tank intake, and another one (supposed to be very good filter) between the tank and the carb so its not crap from the fuel.
before i ever ran it, I did take apart some of the motor and look for shavings and other crap but i found nothing. I took off the back plate and the top cylinder cover. I did not take apart the carb or needle valves tho, they looked too complicated for me
uh, i think thats about all i can think of. If you people can help me, i would be ever so grateful, heheh. like i said, its quite a drive to the LHS, and im only 15 so i cant go there on my own (yet), i have to have someone drive me [&o]. So thankyou to anyone that can help me.
Just ask for information and i'll do my best to figure it out.

The best thing for you to do is go out to the flying field and see how the fellas
are operating their equipment. The is a lot to learn about this r/c stuff. It is
easy to have a very serious accident using this equipment, without the proper
know-how.

Usually the fellas will be eager to help you along, and show you the ropes. Don't
be in a hurry to run your engine or fly the plane. You simply must have the proper
instruction, or you can damage your motor....or cause permanent damage to
your hands or fingers.

Please take your time and learn the correct procedures. The LHS may be able
to get you a book you can read and study-up with as you go along.

Good luck to you....this is a great hobby to learn.
Flyboy Dave.